Hi There,
Really desperate for some help, I am 56kg female and completely out of love with my new bike as can’t get the Pike Forks working properly 🙁

When I ride steepish loose stuff the front is all over the place and I feel completely out of control and am hanging on as it pings me all over the place. Having done some research I think I need to slow the rebound down but how much is too slow. Is it likely because I am light I can get away with riding only a couple of clicks off the slowest setting?

I also have a problem with the LSC the bike dives massively under braking, does this mean I need to put up the LSC or turn it down? I have the forks with the adjuster on top.

Final issue I feel like when I’m pedalling up hill technically I am going to topple off backwards! This could be just the geometry of the bike but maybe it’s related to the above too?

I really would be massively grateful for any help

Sounds like you may need to reassess the air pressure. Did you do all the steps to set sag, such as getting on the bike in your riding kit etc? A lot of folks seem to run less pressure than recommended, including myself. I’ve added a token though to help stop it bottoming out.

As you’re light, you will obviously need less pressure..count the number of clicks on the rebound dial. I think I run mine a couple on the faster side of middle if I recall. If you’re getting pinged then it suggests perhaps it is a bit high. It’s finding that balance between packing down and buckeroo.

In terms of climbing, it could be the geometry of the bike. What bike is it? Is it a complete new build thatcame specced with pikes? Is it designed for that travel? I used to mess around with travel adjust forks etc but have just gotten used to 160mm and probably adjusted my technique for it. What about reach? Are you over the bike? Is your seat a little too far back,a little tilted back, your stem too long? Try playing about with those things.

Do you take your shock pump out with you and try different settings? Probably a good start to go by manufacturers recommendations and address things from there.

.

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/163229/

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/163794/

http://www.pinkbike.com/video/165576/

Hiya,

The sag is fine and the air is ok in the front. Thanks so much for the response though. Also yes it’s a Juliana Roubion and it came specc’d with those forks. I was hoping someone may have some experience with the light rider thing, it’s the answer to the LSC question I need the most and any information on rebound for light riders. The sag is definitely fine I am happy with all of that 🙂

Thanks for the videos JoeG will give them a watch 🙂

It’s very hard to diagnose suspension setup without seeing you on the bike. I think you might be running the fork too soft and your tire pressure too hard but, as I say, it’s a guess without seeing you on the bike. Spring rate pressures and tire pressures are critical for lighter riders. +/-5 psi is massive to a 60kg rider but a 90kg guy would arely notice it. Do you have a digital pressure guage? You need one.

Regarding the front wheel lifting. This has very little to do with your fork. It’s either that your rear spring rate is too soft (has your sag been accurately measured?) and a lack of compression damping or your seat position (mass) is too far rearward. Bikes with short rear ends and slack seat angles increase this problem.

But it can also be technique…. 🙂

What pressure do have in your fork at the moment and what sag are you running?

Someone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but my understanding is:

As you are a light rider, to get the correct sag your going to have to run very low air pressures. This will mean there isn’t a great deal of air in your forks and so will probably result in the ‘diving through your travel’ you describe. I would use the Pike’s bottomless tokens to make the air chamber smaller. The manual does give recommendations but if it came with a couple, i’d put them both in, and possibly look at sourcing a third. These are very easy to install, details in the manual. (Let air out, unscrew top cap, thread tokens on, put cap back on, pump up).

I would do the following:
– Install the bottomless tokens.
– Put air in to get 25/30% sag, whichever is your preference.
– in a car park, bounce the front off of the ground. Try and get the wheel to follow your bounce, as in it should travel up when you pull up and then down when you start to land. Kind of difficult to explain on here, but basically if you notice the fork is still recovering from the last impact when your pulling up again, the rebound is too slow. If the fork is springing you into the air or shooting out quickly, its too fast. As your light i imagine it will need to be on the slower side of things. A point to note: The rebound your adjusting is the low speed rebound, the high speed rebound for larger hits is the ‘Rapid recovery’ stuff and is not adjustable (at least, easily).
– Set the LSC to 0 (all the way to minus) and go and ride something short and steep. If you feel you require it, add a click. This will stop the front diving on low speed things such as braking or small bumps. Again the high speed compression (HSC) is internal. So for those canyon gap jumps, the LSC won’t make any difference. The higher the LSC, the stiffer the fork will be over small stuff, so it will ride higher and won’t dive under braking but will be less comfortable. I would get away with the minimum you can.

The pikes are excellent and when you get them sorted out i’m sure you’ll be happy with them.

JCL – I actually have a little too much air in the fork 60psi compared to the 45psi recommended – trying to combat the issues – also my tyre pressures are very low – 17 front and back (tubeless) – again trying to combat the issues. So I have exactly the opposite going on at the minute

I might be a girl but my technique is just fine in technical climbs they are usually my favourite 😉

bloodsexmagik – thanks that sounds like a really good plan. It did come with a couple of tokens I will bring them with me this weekend to Coedy and see if I can get some help installing them, and then drop the air pressure again back to what it suggests and do the tests you suggest. I do think I have the rebound too high (currently three clicks towards the fast side of the middle) and I think I have no LSC on at all so I probably need a couple of clicks on at least.

Thanks to all for your suggestions

tymbian – 60psi pressure (although it should be 45psi) and about 20-25% sag (should be 30%) I was trying to fiddle with it just using the air but it looks like I might need to make the other adjustments too?

I was just about to post about air pressure, but I’ve been beaten to it. You’re obviously attempting to mitigate the fork’s performance by lowering the tyre pressures.

+1 for fitting tokens to the air chamber, that should help resolve the diving under braking issue too.

PJM1974 – Yes spot on! Will have a go at putting in the tokens and get the tyre pressures back up, although do you think I would probably only be about 20psi tyre wise anyway based on weight and tubeless?

Just as an aside – I only weigh 58kg and have test-ridden 8 or 9 bikes with the pikes. Once we set sag, I’ve never noticed the fork again.
So it will be possible to get it right.

I think they’ve always had at least one token in them though.

145lb rider here, didnt find any need for tokens. I run about 55psi and the fork is perfect * for me.

* when it isnt leaking air into the Charger bladder

“* when it isnt leaking air into the Charger bladder “

thread hijack – can you elaborate on this issue, please? Can’t decide between Pike’s or Fox, so keen to know of any issues with Pike’s.

60kg rider. A week in, I have the following:

60psi ~20% sag with riding gear on.
10/20 clicks on rebound.
7/13 clicks on low speed compression.
Tyres are 20psi front, 23psi rear.

I plan to test lower fork pressure this week, see how it goes, but things are handling very well so far.

What JCL says above is entirely true. As a light rider you will notice small changes in setup, so get used to writing the settings down, checking them, and noting how different settings feel. Same for tyres and tyre pressures.

Is it likely because I am light I can get away with riding only a couple of clicks off the slowest setting?

No, in general the lighter you are the LESS damping you need, both in compression and rebound. You are the mass the damper is controlling and there is less of you to control than a 90 kg bloke. That’s the basics of damping. Heavier things need more damping, lighter things need less.

So I would back off the rebound all the way to full quick and start from there. If it feels too lively, then add a bit of rebound until it calms down, then leave it at that.

If the forks are diving too much under braking you really have two simple choices. Increase the air spring rate and/or increase low speed compression. I would try the latter first, but it will compromise bump sensitivity. You could also try increasing the air spring progression with the tokens as suggested, but I usually associate those with heavier riders, not light ones. Are you bottoming the fork out on bigger hits? If not I wouldn’t touch the tokens.

The LSC resists diving by producing a momentary force acting against it while the fork is moving. The air spring just makes the whole thing stiffer at all times.

20psi in the tyres would seem perfectly okay, given that you’re not the heaviest rider out there.

Thanks Dougal

moshimonster – no way near bottoming the forks out only really get about half way through the travel – so I guess try the LSC on a fair few clicks and not the tokens initially?
Not sure on the rebound part when I read about that it suggests because I am being pinged off all the time and already feels way too lively the rebound is already too fast but your suggesting that isn’t right and that I might find completely the opposite? If it weren’t fast enough already surely I wouldn’t be pinged off and out of control? Sorry still learning!

If you’re light and running low air pressure than you want to use minimal low speed compression damping and have the rebound set almost at the fastest, not the slowest.

However, bear in mind that it won’t be as easy to set fork sag accurately because you’ll have more stiction from the seals at your weight, so you might find you need less sag than a heavier rider to get the same suspension feel.

If your compression damping is too hard then the fork will feel harsh and if your rebound is too slow your fork will not recover after diving into the travel, thus making it feel harsher and more nervy.

It sounds like you need to shift your hips back a bit when descending and forwards a bit when climbing – I know I have to move more on my 6″ full-sus that on my hardtail.

Thanks for that bloodsexmagik I’m lazy and literally put air in and rode. Will play with the LSC more as on steep stuff I was moving the right leg big adjustor back to firmer when on a really steep local trail.

I would use the LSC for the brake dive. I don’t think brake dive will be fixed by using the tokens. Brake dive usually effects early to mid stroke, while tokens make the air spring less linear in the mid to end of stroke. The two features come into play at different times.

If you feel the fork blows through travel too easily on mid to large bumps then use the tokens to make the spring more progressive.

Also regarding how much damping is too much, there is no such thing. If it feels better to you then use that setting.

moshimonster – no way near bottoming the forks out only really get about half way through the travel – so I guess try the LSC on a fair few clicks and not the tokens initially?

Forget the tokens then. Yes, try increasing LSC again a couple of clicks at a time and note what happens on braking. Should be a simple test. If your air pressure wasn’t already higher than recommended I’d suggest increasing that too.

Not sure on the rebound part when I read about that it suggests because I am being pinged off all the time and already feels way too lively the rebound is already too fast but your suggesting that isn’t right and that I might find completely the opposite? If it weren’t fast enough already surely I wouldn’t be pinged off and out of control? Sorry still learning!

Yeah being pinged off things does imply an already underdamped rebound. But are you sure it’s the rebound stroke that’s pinging you off or is it the high speed compression? In other words does the fork compress okay when you hit something fast and then buck you on rebound or does it bounce off instead of compressing in the first place? Quite different things. I would be surprised if your rebound is too quick near its mid setting with your weight, but if you move it close to full quick you should be able to confirm. FWIW I’m in the process of setting my Pike up at 90 kg and even with the rebound backed right off (only for curiosity, not my optimum setting) it still doesn’t feel too bad. I’d be amazed if it was too quick for you, but maybe the damping has been tuned specifically for lighter riders on your bike?

Best way to deal with this is trial and error. Make only one change at a time and note the differences in relation to your various issues. See what the rebound damping does from full quick through to at least mid setting or higher if it improves things. Same with low speed compression. I would try to optimise the rebound first and then move onto the compression. Also worth re-evaluating air pressure again. I don’t think the tokens will help you though.

Thanks everyone some really useful stuff.

Going to try Plan A –

Set sag to 20% not 30%
Get tyre pressures back to 20psi
Leave tokens alone for now
Increase LSC – think it’s nothing at present
Put rebound up to near fast and see what it feels like

Then will see how it is and then as you say moshimonster trial and error! I can always turn the rebound off completely and see how different it feels.

Also has a rule of thumb (and this has served me well over the years with suspension setup) run as little damping as you can get away with. If in any doubt about optimum settings, run less rather than more. You obviously need appropriate damping to control the spring, but in general you are more likely to lose more grip and have more issues from over-damping than you are from underdamping.

Set sag to 20% not 30%

This will definitely reduce the braking dive. Potential downside is a more harsh ride overall

Get tyre pressures back to 20psi

Seems like a good starting point

plan sounds good. If none of that makes any real difference there’s always a chance the fork is faulty.

BTW how is the Juliana (apart from the Pike issues)? My wife’s looking at Juliana bikes at the moment, although probably the shorter travel Joplin.

I would be wary about putting loads of LSC combined with 20% sag. Will probably result in a harsh ride and the best bit about the pikes is that they are supple and yet ride high in their travel when set up correctly.
I would consider a token as it makes a noticeable difference. One friend was running his at near 10% sag to get them running as supportive as he liked but then popped a token in and could run them at a more realistic level.

Good luck.

It’s a beautiful bike really well made and loving the 650b and the carbon – came off a medium 29er which always felt too big. Getting on well with the XX1 either don’t miss the gears even up Afan but then I am a roadie too eek!
I seem to have the shock working fine I went for the Cane Creek DB Air as when I phoned TFT Tuned they said they wouldn’t touch the fox for someone my weight as it would need factory tuning to ever work properly and would cost a fortune.
I haven’t had any problems with the bike itself just the fork and the shock was obviously very fiddly to get that working but it’s fine now 🙂

I would consider a token as it makes a noticeable difference.

At what point in the travel does it ramp up significantly with tokens added? I’m sure I read that the progression was minimal in the first half of the travel, which is not going to help much with braking dive. I would only reduce the air volume if bottoming out on large jumps was an issue. It shouldn’t get anywhere near bottoming out on braking alone.

Thanks arctic – sounds like a fantastic bike. My wife likes the look of them a lot.

Might be your just too light to get them working properly.

According to Bart Bentjens it’s one of the reasons womens World Cup XC riders will often favour HT over FS, don’t how true this is but he seems to know his stuff, the issue relates to the breakaway force required to get the suspension moving.

It’s not going to ramp up significantly in the first half of the travel no. But it does definitely make a difference, maybe not a huge difference but a difference nonetheless. I’m just saying try it, i’m not saying miracles are going to happen. I just know that loads of LSC and high air pressures are not going to make for a comfortable ride!

One change at a time
Make notes
Be logical.

http://locotuning.co.uk/tech-info.html

Some good info here.

Hiya,

The sag is fine and the air is ok in the front. Thanks so much for the response though. Also yes it’s a Juliana Roubion and it came specc’d with those forks. I was hoping someone may have some experience with the light rider thing, it’s the answer to the LSC question I need the most and any information on rebound for light riders. The sag is definitely fine I am happy with all of that

The rebound knob unfortunately only adjusts beginning stroke/low speed rebound. You probably need to get the high speed rebound shimmed for your weight because it’s set for your avaerage blokes weight from the factory.

IMO the best thing you can do for your bike is get a custom tune for the fork and shock based on weight and riding style. If I had the money and I was you I’d go even further and just order an Avalanche cartridge from craig in the states.

No, in general the lighter you are the LESS damping you need, both in compression and rebound. You are the mass the damper is controlling and there is less of you to control than a 90 kg bloke. That’s the basics of damping. Heavier things need more damping, lighter things need less.

So I would back off the rebound all the way to full quick and start from there. If it feels too lively, then add a bit of rebound until it calms down, then leave it at that.

Errr, generally a heavier rider will need a faster rebound setting for it to push back at the same rate. The general rule is to compress the fork and have it fully extend just after you lift the front wheel, then go from there.

If you can’t get on with the fork because of you weight combined with stiction issues associated with air forks, then save up, sell it and get the Marz 350 NCR titanium. It can be reshimmed by the user as well, if your proficient with that kind of thing.

Yeah being pinged off things does imply an already underdamped rebound. But are you sure it’s the rebound stroke that’s pinging you off or is it the high speed compression?

There’s no high speed compression dial on Pike forks and most are effectively a crap alternative to getting the right shim stack setup for you.

The best thing to do with forks, if you don’t understand them, is fanny about with them. Make sure you remember what you changed, so you can change it back though. Turn the damping too far in whichever direction and feel what the extremes are like, try too little air and too much compression damping- just experiment, and remember. The mistakes and missteps are as informative as making it feel better.

Having said that… Personally I’m a little heavier than you and even then I’m right on the end of the damping adjustment of my Pikes, I think they’ve basically got that a bit wrong- at 65kg I shouldn’t be pushing the ends of the adjustment.

Forgive me, tired. To clarify my last post, that doesn’t take into account changes in spring rate. Harder springs will require more damping, but I’ve found light riders often need to run their forks a little bit slower once the rebound has been adjusted for the spring rate. They tend to be less capable of muscling a bike thats bucking around because of their weight and strength and tend to prefer a bit more chassis stability over all out grip.

I’m wondering though whether because the forks ending stroke rebound is factory set, that it’s overdamped for her weight and the fork is packing down on extended rock gardens. I’d place a bet on this being the issue.

Forgive me, tired. To clarify my last post, that doesn’t take into account changes in spring rate. Harder springs will require more damping, but I’ve found light riders often need to run their forks a little bit slower once the rebound has been adjusted for the spring rate. They tend to be less capable of muscling a bike thats bucking around because of their weight and strength and tend to prefer a bit more chassis stability over all out grip.

The rebound adjustment required for the change in spring rate far outweighs the personal preference you’re suggesting is common to lighter riders – a light rider has a much greater range of slower rebound choices than a heavy rider.

I’m wondering though whether because the forks ending stroke rebound is factory set, that it’s overdamped for her weight and the fork is packing down on extended rock gardens. I’d place a bet on this being the issue.

The ‘rapid recovery’ circuit is deliberately set to be much faster than the rest of the rebound circuit, so the last thing it’s going to be doing is getting stuck right in the deepest travel.

Bracketing is the best way to tweak suspension if you’re unsure what you need. Like this:

Expect it to take hours and hours of riding to get it dialled. If nothing works then ask a professional to do something more complicated.