Looking at buying my first full suss for over 9 years. Really liking the Orange ST4 Pro, any thoughts or opinions would be most welcome. Don't think I need more than 4-5" front and rear.
Any other shiny goodies that I should swing a leg over in that sort of price bracket?
Commencal Super 4? There was a back-to-back review of this and the ST4 in last months STW
scott spark 30
Hi
I have owned an ST4 Pro for the past 2 months. I really enjoy riding it. it's weight is similar to the 2003 Marin Mount Vision I owned previously (29lbs) with pedals on my scales. I find it more inspiring to ride. It is appreciably lower, which combined with its trail oriented geometry means the performance is at least as good uphill as the Marin, while down hill it is in a different league better. It's a fun bike. I have had no buyers remorse, and would happily recommend one.
Cheers Tom R
I think the opinion of most of the people on here was that they were sh*t Commencal rip-offs until someone actually bought one, wrote a nice review of it and then everyone started bigging them up.
I own a Kona the King 2006, 4" XC/race bike, took a ST4 SE (I think) for spin around Grafham Water, Cambridgeshire at their demo day last year (not the most technical area in the world I know).
Based on two hour or so:
I thought the bike was very well balanced with a good spec of kit; it was lively in a spaniel sort of way. It also wanted to be ridden fast, very similar to my Kona, stuck in the big ring and stomped on the pedals and it was off, the suspension seemed supple and did not appear to bottom out easily. From memory the bike I rode had lot of the upgrades fitted, demo fleet, overall I liked it and if I had the money and was looking for a new 4” XC trial bike it would be on the top of my list.
I suppose it all depends on what type of riding/rider you are? And if you consider 4” of travel for your size/weight and ability then book a test ride.
[url=I own a Kona the King 2006, 4" XC/race bike, took a ST4 SE (I think) for spin around Grafham Water, Cambridgeshire at their demo day last year (not the most technical area in the world I know). Based on two hour or so: I thought the bike was very well balanced with a good spec of kit; it was lively in a spaniel sort of way. It also wanted to be ridden fast, very similar to my Kona, stuck in the big ring and stomped on the pedals and it was off, the suspension seemed supple and did not appear to bottom out easily. From memory the bike I rode had lot of the upgrades fitted, demo fleet, overall I liked it and if I had the money and was looking for a new 4” XC trial bike it would be on the top of my list. I suppose it all depends on what type of riding/rider you are? And if you consider 4” of travel for your size/weight and ability is for you then book a test ride. ]Orange Mountain Bike - Events[/url]
Else follow the crowd and buy a 5" all mountain bike
Its not a typical 4" xc weapon-too heavy,too slack and too much fun.More along the lines of a big 4x bike (blur 4x with a bit less travel springs to mind).4xc maybe?Not the stiffest arse end but the twang adds to the livelyness (real word?).Bolt thru 120mm forks,short stem and rooooooost!Its ok-ish.
bloody expensive - 2300 and comes with recon forks on the pro.
not the prettiest looking thing is it!
i love stacey
she may be an 08 frame but she's very much a filthy tart 
I was thinking of somehow affording an ST4 but then went n got a new 07 trance bike and put my hardtail bits on it, revelations, hope M4, xm719/pro II. Comes in at 28.5 inc pedals, 4" travel. It killed a 4x track I went to last weekend and made me giggle when i threw it down some some rocky decents that I used to edge down on my hardtail.
parts it came with were lower end though.
http://paulscycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b4s1p1291
4" is the new 5", which was the new 6"
:fact:
Holy sh*t! I've had a couple of rides on one of these now (chummy with an LBS who has a demo in my size). Thought it was merely good at the Quantocks the first time I rode it.
Did an 84km all dayer at Afan and I swear to god this is the fastest thing alive! It's pure singletrack weaponary! It deffo feels like 5" not 4" (it is actually 5" up front).
I lost count the number of times I'd thought I'd gone too fast into something and then been amazed and slightly terrified when the bike has just zipped through - it's almost arrogant in it's capabilities!
I'd scared myself stupid far too many times on this thing over the course of the day!
Backend was a little bit flexy but it usually just serves as reminder that you're starting to be a bit of a dick on a pretty short travel bike considering 
Probably not a bike for the beginner or faint hearted - it's not that it's twitchy or nervous, far from it! It's just that it'll ride the likes of Afan on the total ragged edge far faster than any bike out there but there's literally zero left in reserve for mistakes. You always seem to end up riding it on the cusp of it's ability and you end up leaving nothing in reserve!
*swoon* (Yes even with that Recon fork! Christ knows what a maxle reba or 15QR Fox would do for it!)
Anyone want to buy a Five?
So - gasp - GaryLake, to get this straight - you actually prefer the ST4 to the - gasp - Five?!
Seriously though, how come? Is it any lighter? Or do you just find it more'fun'?
If it wasn't for the price or weight it would be tempting...
Oh you buggers, I've just ordered my Five frame 
Right, I'm off to scrub the image of 'dirty stacey' from my mind!!..........mmm...powder bluuee
The Five is ultimately much stiffer, more capable and more comfortable (ride position is identical but the extra travel helps on long rides).
The ST4 is a pound lighter. I think the thing the ST4 has going for it is really that bottom bracket height. It's lower than a Meta and I think the weight distribution is just really spot on too. It's just so dam fast and balanced!
That said, if I'm really honest, I'd get a Five again purely because I do like the big all dayers and the ST4 was quite tiring by the time I was coming down the Wall descent after nearly 84km of Afan in 27 deg heat! It's a very much "scream if you want to go faster kind of bike" and the problem is, clattering down the Afan type descents all day eventually catches up with you...
I'd buy a Five again but always lust for an ST4...
And also, I don't know if it just feels faster because there is less travel.
I'll have to go back soon on my Five and see! 
GaryLake - MemberThe ST4 is a pound lighter. I think the thing the ST4 has going for it is really that bottom bracket height. It's lower than a Meta ...
Which means it must be scraping the ground at times.
The Five is ultimately much stiffer, more capable and more comfortable (ride position is identical but the extra travel helps on long rides).The ST4 is a pound lighter. I think the thing the ST4 has going for it is really that bottom bracket height. It's lower than a Meta and I think the weight distribution is just really spot on too. It's just so dam fast and balanced!
That said, if I'm really honest, I'd get a Five again purely because I do like the big all dayers and the ST4 was quite tiring by the time I was coming down the Wall descent after nearly 84km of Afan in 27 deg heat! It's a very much "scream if you want to go faster kind of bike" and the problem is, clattering down the Afan type descents all day eventually catches up with you...
I'd buy a Five again but always lust for an ST4...
Phee-ew, that's good to know. From what people are saying, the ST4 sounds a bit like the 'goad you into going loony fast' character of my Pace RC405 - and TBH, the idea of getting the Five is to have a slighly more chilled out bike that can still turn it on for the fun bits. Don't get me wrong, I love bikes like the 405 and ST4, it's just that I'm not as young and fit as I once was, so I have to have a long sit down in my bath chair with a cup of tea after a couple of hours 'looning' on the Pace - so the ST4 might be too challenging for my dinosaur reactions. Sounds good for those who can still cut it tho
Thank GL - it's good to get a balanced opinion! The Five's BB is low enough for me, I like longs rides at Afan too, and well I'm just tired of demoing bikes. The Five is great fun and this w/e should just confirm which size I need. Yay!
Thank GL - it's good to get a balanced opinion! The Five's BB is low enough for me, I like longs rides at Afan too, and well I'm just tired of demoing bikes. The Five is great fun and this w/e should just confirm which size I need. Yay!
oo...another fan of the Five eh? nice one Know some people diss 'em for their 'challenging' looks, but they are rather good aren't they?! Now all you've got to do is choose a colour...eek
Tell me about it! My LBS guys were trying to get me to do for 'Disco black' but I'm not having any of it!
Still, anything but the 'Sassy pink' the diva demo came in will be an significant improvement!
Yeah, I do love mine, Fools Gold w/black forks, '08 one here.
I wouldn't call a Five chilled out though, this talk is all relative to it's hyperactive little brother!
Which means it must be scraping the ground at times.
I didn't pedal strike all that often but then I didn't on the Meta either.
I saw a poweder blue on the other day with white fox forks! Lush!
I'd still go with desert five though!
I didn't pedal strike all that often but then I didn't on the Meta either.You definately had too much air in the Meta shock Gary. After 2 years I still clip the pedals loads.
Rob - I had the ST4 set up perfectly and the BB is 3mm lower than a Meta's - it's technique mate 
(Tongue firmly in cheek)
Apologies for the 'big up the Five' thread hijack 
er...BUT
I saw a poweder blue on the other day with white fox forks! Lush!I'd still go with desert five though!
Yup, I've gone for the Fools Gold - all part of my plan to put MrsB off from adopting it as her bike - who am I kidding though 
she's probably already seen thru the plan and is two steps ahead of me..ho hum.
My interest in powder blue as the frame colour was subliminally planted by MrsB with the casual 'Oh, I think I've seen them in powder blue and they look really good' comment. Alarm bells rang when she had a 'quick go' on the demo bike - had a job getting it back off her. Then I found out that her fave ever bike colour is something called 'baby blue', which funnily enough is just like powder blue...hmmmm right.
What I love is that a few weeks ago she declared that the best thing about her current bike is that it doesn't look girlie or blingy...then she sees this baby blue womens bike and goes all 'wow, that's cute' (eh...but err what?!) - does make me smile tho.
I have now been officially 'allowed' to buy the frame, on the condition that it's a joint bike that we can both use (yea, right) - I know my place 
Now, where did I put that really skinny rock hard racing saddle....
I test rode one @ Llandegla's last demo day.
It was a Pro, and for the £2300 price tag, I thought I was a bit on teh expensive side considering it comes with Recons, surely a nice set of Reba Teams would be more applicable.
It did indeed fell fast, when the pedals weren't clipping the floor, the BB just feels so damm low it's ridiculous, now I know my Handjob has just over a 12.5" BB height with a 115mm fork on there, but it doesn't grind pedals like the ST4.
Other than that it's fast, handles well and climbs well, descends pretty well too.
But for the money, I wouldn't even consider it. Just buy a Five or a Zesty 514
It did indeed fell fast, when the pedals weren't clipping the floor, the BB just feels so damm low it's ridiculous
Crikey, I wonder how low the BB is on the ST4? er, I presume the demo guys had put the right amount of air in the suspension for you?
It's 6mm below the Axle height so about 3mm lower than a Meta.
No pedal strikes here and that was even on the Skyline descent with all those lovely steps and all. A few on the techy bits of the climbs.
Very easy to forget about those Recons when they a) don't do anything wrong and b) you're going so dam fast! I agree though, I'd take maxle Reba or Float on the Orange upgrade scheme...
Fools gold does look quite nice, but I've never seen one in the flesh so think I'm gonna go for the white. I really like the grey but my hubby's got that and matching bikes is bad enough without the colours matching too!
Oh and Bowglie, your story rings all too true - my hubby was dead against full suss bikes until I started looking at the Five and then he ended up with one before me! Cheeky monkey - I still don't know how he managed it!
Sorry for the further hijack, but GL - your tires look interesting, looks like a small block 8 on the back? What's on the front? A blue groove?
(Oh and do you ride it with that many spacers?!)
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