Seen various articles that say these are better than "traditional" GoreTex rain jackets, but I have to confess, I don't know what one is :-((

(Anyone else noticed how young the police are these days?)

its a trendy name for a plastic shell suit.

They are softer and more flexible waterproof/showerproof fabrics which make them more comfortable to wear. Usually more breathable than a waterproof jacket, but not as water tight as a gore-tex/eVent etc.

You can get yourself a nice one for a bargain price of £240 from Rapha 😉

and you have to buy the bottoms separately.

It means you don't rustle like a bin-liner when you move. Its what the discerning man about town wears for sneaking up on people down dark back alleys

Anyone else noticed how young the police are these days?

I was visited yesterday by two members of the local Police Safer Neighbourhood Team, one of whom was a very pretty young lady with gorgeous eyes, and a very pleasant manner.

I was reminiscing with her older male colleague about local urban wasteland sites that have long been redeveloped, and she confessed she'd not been born then. The realisation that I was easily old enough to be her dad did sadden me just a little.

Think of it in terms of protection, where 'hard' shells like Gore-tex are 100% windproof and waterproof. Soft shells aren't typically 100% waterproof or windproof, they trade off some of that for more breathabilty and comfort. The thinking is that most of the time this will actually keep you more comfortable than a 'hard' shell and I reckon it's true.

Just to confuse things though soft shell often seems to refer to waterproof fleeces, which aren't really soft shells at all IMO (although they are softer to the touch!) because IME they're not really much more breathable than Gore-tex.

I'd go for the opp view soft shells are the fleeces etc which use a goretex type laminate – taped or un-taped. They're not fleece with pertex outers. What manufacturers call soft shell seems to become more and more all encompassing with each new range.

Is it a piece of merchandising from the dutch leg of a well known 80's synth pop duo's world tour.

Ah, my mistake. That would be a shoft shell jacket, for sure.

Just comes down to the outer material IMO, 'normal' stuff being plasticky/rubbery outer and a softshell more of a cloth material. The can be equally wind/waterproof though. Personally I prefer a softshell + baselayer if I'm going out and it's already raining but they aren't really packable so if it's just for emergencies I'll carry a normal type jacket.

ahat fuzzywuzzy says – there are also a number of fleecy waterproofs about too – Endura Stealth is a good example or Gore Tool – these are warm and (largely) waterproof and make great autumn/winter riding garments whether it's wet, cold or both.

I'd go for the opp view soft shells are the fleeces etc

Nope. MrSalmon has it.

The original "soft shell" kit was the Buffalo pertex/pile system which was quite radically different from anything else around in the eighties but used only by hardcore climbers / hill walkers / paddlers / squaddies. (Still available with absolutely no concession to fashion or appearance…)

In the mid-nineties other manufacturers (led by Patagonia) jumped on the bandwagon with less radical/more fashionable looking kit that the marketing departments could label as "soft shell" and then charge three times as much for.

Cynical, me? 😉

Nowadays it's such a widely applied term it's almost meaningless but the basic principle is still valid: if you're working hard and generating sweat it's usually better to have a shell that breathes well and dries fast than one that's 100% waterproof.

Andy will sort you out:

here

and

here

I'd go for the opp view soft shells are the fleeces etc which use a goretex type laminate – taped or un-taped. They're not fleece with pertex outers. What manufacturers call soft shell seems to become more and more all encompassing with each new range.

The first two sentances of this are wrong, the third is correct. That is all.

So what's the advantage over wearing a fleece for warmth and then putting on a Paclite jacket when it rains?

Fleece won't keep you warm by itself when it's windy/showery.

By combining the pile/microfleece lining with the shell you get a snugger fit and better contact between the fabrics allowing better transmission of sweat/moisture to the outside. Proper "technical" softshell kit should be quite close fitting (hence use of stretch fabrics etc). Dead air space inside defeats the purpose.

The other big practical advantage is you can then add layers *outwards* when required eg. put on a light down/synthetic jacket or gilet when you stop for lunch.

Traditional layering systems you have to take off the outer shell to add more insulation underneath it… not a such a good idea in foul weather conditions.

Marketing nightmare term covering a wide range of not waterproof but highly weather resistant fabrics/garments. At one end, stuff like Gore's Windstopper is nigh on waterproof -uses a ptfe membrane – but consequently not particularly breathable, at the other end of the scale, there's stuff that breathes a lot better, typically double weave polyamide or even polyester that breathes significantly better, but offers a lot less weather protection. And then to confuse things, there's even the odd taped soft shell that's actually waterproof.

Confused? You kind of have to know where you are in terms of how hot you run and what activity you're doing in what conditions. If you're someone who runs hot and rides a bike hard then you need to prioritise breathability over protection, if you're slow and run cool, you can get away with something more protective but less breathable. And all points in between…

The advantage over wearing a breathable soft shell over a fleece is that you get an element of wind and rain protection all the time. With a fleece you either have very little wind resistance and good breathability or you stick your waterproof on and have full weather protection but **** all breathability.

Good compromise stuff is Rab's Vapour Rise kit, which is a very thin fleece layer with a wind-resistant outer shell or, if you want more weather protection, Polartec Power Shield, which is a perforated PU membrane and is 95% windproof but still breathes significantly better than the likes of Gore-Tex. Or you could forget all this and just go ride your bike…

Take two jackets into the shower? You need soft shell.because you're worth it

soft shells are ok if you know you won't want to take it off, they're too bulky. the vapourise stuff is quite good (as long as you wear a base layer for running) but i prefer the "two bottles into the shower approach": light-weight fleece with like a montane windshirt, far far cheaper and more convenient to my needs, but same effect.

That article Brown linked to is really good.

I do like my softshell but it's so far from waterproof that if I had to walk off a Welsh hill in the rain, I'd be pretty damn cold. It is really comfortable for riding in and a big improvement on a hard shell while I'm producing heat.

The only down-side to soft shells (or mine at least) that no-one has mentioned is that when it's holding lots of water it's really heavy. I'm not a total weight weenie, but I'm always amazed at how heavy it is when I take it off after a wet ride.

Shell just means it's designed to go on the outside, and is likely wind and/or waterproof.

Typically, a soft shell jacket has some insulation on the inside, and the outside is made of micro-weave fabric. So it's pretty good at repelling water but is also warm.

There are variations on this – you can get what is basically a waterproof where the fabric is soft and not rustly, and you can get the thicker softshell jackets with a goretex membrane inside if you want.

All it really means is that it's non rustly. What you actually get varies.

PS Buffalo was never soft-shell, the outside was pertex which is rustly. Different innovation altogether.

So they should just be called 'non-rustly jackets' and be done with it then.

Soft Shell?

Dave

There's plenty of soft shell with no insulation on the inside. The point I was trying to make above, is that there's no single 'soft shell fabric' so you can't generalise about them. Some are insulated, some aren't, some are heavy, some are light, some wick well, some don't, some dry fast etc, etc.

I know that's inconvenient for those of you who like to shove things into neat little factual boxes and always be right, but it doesn't work in this case, sorry… 😉

I've got 2 jackets I'd say are soft shells, and they're both pretty different.
One is a Howies Cross jacket which is made from Schoeller something-or-other (rough-ish outer with a thin fleecy lining) the other is a Montane Prism (Pertex with a very thin filling of primaloft or something). So I don't think it's about the material as such.

They both keep the worst of the wind and rain out 90% of the time and are much more comfortable than wearing something totally waterproof. I'm lucky in that I also have a very light eVent waterproof so carrying the extra layer for that other 10% of the time isn't really a problem for me.

Like someone else said it depends how hot you run- I don't think I could wear something like a Stealth without melting or moving to Scotland.

Hmmm … sounds interesting but I'm not sure my gear cupboard can squeeze in another jacket!! My psychology on these things was formed doing geological fieldwork in Scotland, where there is a lot of standing around in torrential rain, so til now I have favoured the waterproof "hard shell" approach!

Endura Stealth, soft shell, can be worn by itself or with layers, vented and fully waterproof and windproof. Overall it's great if a trifle warm most of the time.

I'm with Dr J on this. have tried a varity of soft shells and most often revert back to base layer, jersey, gilet, hard shell (though not often all at once)

PS Buffalo was never soft-shell

Well, it's true they didn't invent the name. That was Patagonia, who took the Buffalo (and Montane) pertex/pile concept and made their own more fashionably-coloured version in the late nineties (I was working in Rock & Run in Ambleside at the time, we tested/used/stocked them all).

Then it was picked up more generally as the latest buzzword and applied to Schoeller fabrics, Windstopper, Paramo-style kit, etc etc etc. Some of which works well, some is better off reserved for the pub…

standing around in torrential rain

Yup, that's where softshell doesn't work… intended for activity when you're generating heat to push the moisture out.

I don't use a soft-shell for outdoory stuff. Apart from a North Face Apex one which is very thin, really just a windproof.

I do use them for casual jackets tho as they are very comfortable and look good 🙂

What Elliptic said.

A lot of what is sold as 'soft shell' – stuff like TNF Apex or the Montane Puma I have, makes more sense away from the 'dreich' Scottish climate. I found it a bit of a revelation when I wore it skiing in the alps, as it cuts out the wind, can cope with a fair amount of snow falling, and does a much better job than a goretex shell of getting rid of sweat. In that sort of situation, where you might have a lightweight hard shell in your bag for emergencies, it works really well.

I've worn the puma biking when it's cold and frosty, and again it makes sense with that wind breaking (fnar) sweat releasing function – it has lighter weight, stretchy panels down the sides as well, so I find it very comfy to wear for stuff like biking or climbing.

I made the mistake of impulse buying a lighter weight Patagonia jacket which had won 'best in test' in Trail magazine – I've never worn it, as the old Montane windshirt I have does the same job over a light fleece for a third the price and no weight penalty.