'The number of cyclists killed and seriously injured on Britain's roads rose by 11% between 2004 and 2007 despite no significant increase in cycling, a report by the National Audit Office has disclosed.'
The full story is here.
Bike Forum
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More cyclists killed on UK roads
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Posted 2 years ago #
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......am glad that I am a mountain biker.
Posted 2 years ago # -
...but because the NAO also talked about children in the same story, the media decided not to delve deeper on the cycling front.
I think the rise tends to show the growing contempt & carelessness that motorists have for cyclists.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Don't understand. There has been a massive increase in cycling in London and deaths have therefore goe up (undesireable, but understandable), so surely that's going to skew the figures?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cheesy, during the period the report covered, across the country, there had not been an increase.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Didn't exlain myself (it's early and I'm sorting stuff out for ride in a bit). There were (I believe) significantly more deaths & cyclists in London, so that would have bumped up the stats if it's looked at nationally.
Anyway, it's statistics, and we all know you can use these to show anything!
Posted 2 years ago # -
There has been a massive increase in cycling in London and deaths have therefore goe up (undesireable, but understandable), so surely that's going to skew the figures?
Deaths don't rise at the same rate as numbers cycling, so the London figures could actually skew the figures the other way.
More cyclists = safer
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah, I thought it was interesting that the number of deaths had gone up with the same number of cyclists. About the only things that could explain it is that drivers are getting worse, or cyclists are getting more gung-ho with their attitude to continuing life. Sadly only one of these seems likely to be true...
Driving standards have got worse over the time that I have been commuting to work (8-9 years by car and cycle), and I now just assume that everyone else is an utter tool. A large percentage of the time I'm right!
Agree with Mike though, what we need is more cyclists, quite a few of my colleagues are quite keen to cycle into work, partly after seeing me do it and therefore let them know that it is possible, but are afraid to cycle on the road at all.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Surprised really, you never see cyclists on the road out my way, they are all on the friggin footpaths!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've noticed if you a rear luggage rack and lights the drivers give you more room.
I have also noticed boy racers and impatient drivers yell.
Also be alert during rush hours. Actually be alert all the time.
You can't stop some nutters behind the wheel. -Look at how many car accidents there are.
Speed cameras are great
Chnage the Laws for hitting/killing cyclists would be an idea. Just like smoking bans and mobile use during driving.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Reported cycling accidents in 2007 map:-
http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/blog/2009/03/11/uk-cycling-accidents/
Posted 2 years ago # -
Surprised really, you never see cyclists on the road out my way, they are all on the friggin footpaths!
That's because the roads are perceived as dangerous and, in most places, infrastructure for bikes is crap. The Home Office recognises this, which is why the issued guidance to the police to only issue fixed penalty notices to people riding irresponsibly on the pavement.
You're far, far more likely to be killed or injured by a car while walking on the pavement than killed or injured by a bike.
Round here you'd struggle to ride on most pavements, because of the cars parked on them.
Posted 2 years ago # -
A response to that Guardian article, on the same site, rubbishing the NAO's method:
Posted 2 years ago # -
The report says the most dangerous place for cyclists and pedestrians is London. Seventeen pedestrians per 100,000 people are killed in the capital, compared with a national average of 11.
Every time I go to London I am astounded at the amount of cyclists and pedestrians who think they are the only people on the planet and regularly ignore everything and every one else. I worked by the Bank of England for one week and used to drink a coffee in the morning sitting above Bank station watching the cyclists shoot the big junction there. What a load of freaking idiots!!! Literally half ignored the lights, a quarter followed the lights but then bizarrely ignored the traffic, most of the rest didn't understand any road rule whatsoever and just wobbled about like a cock and about 3 people every hour knew what they were doing.
And then pedestrians, yes, it may be wrong that cars have right of way but they're a lot heavier and don't feel pain. Try looking out for them.
And don't get me started on people smoking in the street. Or the smell. Or that advert where people in Liverpool street station start dancing together which is the most improbable advert I've ever seen in my life. I'd believe the Smash robots had come down to earth before I believed that cockneys would all spontaneously start acknowledging one another and start dancing together happily.
Posted 2 years ago # -
there is no way i would even cosider riding on the road. there are just too many cars.life is for living not major surgery or death.i love cycling but can,t understand why you would want to ride on the save piece of tarmack as thousands of 1 tone steel boxes traveling eraticaly by some realy realy crap drivers how don,t even see you,have never riden a bike,don,t follow any road rules.the law of avereges and all that.youd have to be of you trolley.stay in the mountains for god sake.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Reported cycling accidents in 2007 map:-
http://labs.timesonline.co.uk/blog/2009/03/11/uk-cycling-accidents/
Nice map the Times have produced there. Not sure i'd agree with their claim it is "a richly detailed - and hopefully educational - portrait of the nation’s cycling accidents."
The trouble with plain old statistics, as the map produced by Timesonline demonstrates, is there is no detail (or at least there isn't the way the media reproduce them). What caused most of these accidents? What time of day is it? Do more accidents happen at particular points on the road? Did driving offense convictions also go up 11%?
Oh, and one cyclist was killed in the Irish Sea, a few miles off the Welsh coast apparently!
Posted 2 years ago # -
the accidents seem to mostly happen where the majority of people live, amazing.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Andywhit - loving that map! I can identify a blob on that map in Edinburgh which was me!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Do you think the rise has anything to do with all the unlicensed foreign drivers we have on the roads now? Polish / illegals etc . . . ?
I think soPosted 2 years ago # -
No idea Oxboy, but all the bad drivers I've had words with have been British.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Do you think the rise has anything to do with all the unlicensed foreign drivers we have on the roads now? Polish / illegals etc . . . ?
I think so
Say what Posted 2 years ago # -
I wonder if it's anything to do with the X-box generation coming of age and transferring their GTA driving skills to daddy's car?
Posted 2 years ago # -
You're far, far more likely to be killed or injured by a car while walking on the pavement than killed or injured by a bike.
Absolutely. Last week a chap was killed waiting at the pedestrian crossing by our estate. Big trailer hit the lights which fell on him. He wasn't even on the road.
rob, road cycling is safer than it might seem, it's the perception that makes it look scary. The press jump on accident figures and 'bad news' stories. They never report the thousands, millions of journeys that are made without a problem. I get intimidating things happen but I've been riding on the roads since I was 12 or 13 and no t0sser in a 4x4 or any other tin box is going to stop me asserting the right to do so. Cycling is such a fabulous form of transport I shouldn't have to give it up through fear.
http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/2008/04/cyclists-live-longer.html
http://cyclinginfo.co.uk/blog/cycling/how-dangerous-is-cycling/
Assessing the actual risks faced by cyclists (PDF)
Riding round woods and down rough tracks is probably a statistically more dangerous thing to do.
Posted 2 years ago # -
epicyclo - Member
I wonder if it's anything to do with the X-box generation coming of age and transferring their GTA driving skills to daddy's car?
some younger drivers give more room and pass more safely than older drivers - I put this down to the test being tougher and more educational about cyclists - think there is a combination of "x -box culture" = you can walk away and no ones gets hurt and what i call the "shopping mall generation" - have never walked on pavements much except to get from car to shop = max 5m , only ridden a bike at center parcs and have been driven and now drive (impatiently) to local shop, school drop off, McD, office, gym etcPosted 2 years ago # -
From my experience, it's a slow degeneration in social and moral responsibility by all walks of society.
I'm not recognisible from X factor and it costs more money to drive round me so I'm not important.
As for this comment....
Do you think the rise has anything to do with all the unlicensed foreign drivers we have on the roads now? Polish / illegals etc . . . ?
All the immigrants (that I'm aware are immigrants) round our way get around on bikes, they can't afford cars and their roadcraft is completely none existant. I've seen them ride straight across junctions where they don't have right of way, through red lights without even checking, they move from road to pavement almost randomly without looking, never signal and can often be seen on the wrong side of the road. This is probably no worse than the British born cyclist that can be seen pottering about the place but perhaps there's just a lot more of them now.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It's unworkable, I know, but I've always thought you shouldn't be able to get a car license until you've ridden a motorbike for X-years and only be able to get a motorbike license having cycled for X-years before that. Build up to the skills you need to drive and have an appreciation for other road users from their perspective.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It's unworkable, I know, but I've always thought you shouldn't be able to get a car license until you've ridden a motorbike for X-years and only be able to get a motorbike license having cycled for X-years before that. Build up to the skills you need to drive and have an appreciation for other road users from their perspective.
It is possible however, as part of the new theory testing, to put the L driver in the place of a cyclist during the simulator part of the test.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Rob - you think mountain biking is safer than riding on the road? Duh.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It is possible however, as part of the new theory testing, to put the L driver in the place of a cyclist during the simulator part of the test.
Does the simulator then put the L driver through all the same experiences a normal cyclist goes through? People passing too close, passing them and then turning immediately left, pulling alongside and then drifting in, shouting for no reason, throwing things at them and hurling abuse for the simple fact that they're not in a car? And of course, people driving over them.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Simulators are crap, everyone knows they're unrealistic - theres nothing like a 44 tonner wazzing past you a foot from your elbow to heighten the senses. While it may be a somewhat stupid attitude to take, I find road riding (and its risks, or rather avoiding them) quite good fun. Obviously I'd rather not die/be knocked off but the commute to work would be pretty dull if it was just open roads, nothing to dodge etc. Its a bit like MTBing, it'd be bloody aweful if all the trails were cleansed of death risk.
Posted 2 years ago # -
there is no way i would even cosider riding on the road. there are just too many cars.life is for living not major surgery or death.i love cycling but can,t understand why you would want to ride on the save piece of tarmack as thousands of 1 tone steel boxes traveling eraticaly by some realy realy crap drivers how don,t even see you,have never riden a bike,don,t follow any road rules.the law of avereges and all that.youd have to be of you trolley.stay in the mountains for god sake.
Actually, the law of averages says that you have to ride for something like 90 years before you're involved in an accident. 100% of domestic accidents happen in the home you know, might want to get out more to be on the safe side.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Based on my sample of 10 years riding essentially the same commute, my law of averages is roughly:
Take avoiding action due to inconsiderate driving - at least once a day
Have to brake hard/come to a stop stop due to numpty pulling out/pulling in/general stupidity - twice a week
Being the victim of driving so shocking, but not resulting in a collision, that I should give the b*st*rd a piece of my mind - once a month
Collision, or potential collision resulting in minor damage to me/the bike/the ar$ewipe in the cars ear drums - every 9 months to a year
Impact with either car or gound resulting in a few days off work for road rash or a trip to A+E - every 3 to 4 years
I'm due a another trip to A+E
Having said that though, based on miles travelled I've had far worse injuries racing - one elbow (MTB race) and the same elbow again about 7 years later in a road race... so the daily commute isn't, relatively, so bad.Edit: Didn't see the 'other thread' until after all the typing
Posted 2 years ago # -
From my experience then BristolBikers stats sound about right. Like I said before, if you just assume that everyone else is a tool then you'll be right a lot of the time.
I think commuting/riding on the road is relatively safe as long as you are sensible. Bad driving is predictable, if you pay attention to what you are doing you can almost see the idiot drivers doing something stupid before they do it.... The ones that scream past you really close just before a left turn are obviously then going to jump on the anchors and turn across the front of you; the one on his mobile phone sitting in the middle of the road waiting to turn right is obviously going to not notice your existence. It's all so predictable!
Dunno who it was further up, and can't be arsed to re-look, but someone commented that all the idiots makes the commute more fun, and I'd be inclined to agree. It is the act of predicting the bad driving and riding around it that keeps me awake in the mornings, if it was sanitised cycle trails from here to work I'd fall asleep into a bush!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Bristolbiker, I've been commuting in Bristol for the same length of time and not been knocked off or damaged my bike yet. I do a fairly short commute but it does go right through the city centre. That said, I do have a near miss quite frequently.
I had someone pull out on me at the lights by Gaol Ferry Bridge and hit me, but luckily his bumper caught the end of my pedal and he nudged me to one side rather than tipping me over. I also ran into the back of someone setting off from a set of traffic lights as I was in a rush to get going. They were terribly nice about it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I commute from Coombe Dingle, right the way across the top fo the city and out the other side at Frenchay and on to Yate - about 15 miles each way. In city, it ain't so bad - it's usually a case of watching for bad driving (most blood occured when a numpty opened a car door on my - never seen so much red stuff come out of hand before!)
Both times I've been to A+E, I was hit from behind, so couldn't really do anything about it. Worst one was being clipped from behind by a truck doing 50. He didn't even know he'd done it, so went on his way - I flew threw the air into the verge (luckily). The bike was a complete mess, having fallen under his wheels while I went the other way onto the verge. Took quite a while to get back on the road again after that...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Someone's already ref'd the response in the guardian above, but just to double it up: The NAO report is absolute utter pants. Seriously, read Helen Pidd's comment piece and rip up the NAO report.
Posted 2 years ago # -
There's a sort of self-fulfilling effect at play - the more fearful you are, the more you might be inclined to cower in the side of the road and then the less visible you are and the more vulnerable to being clipped into the kerb etc. I personally feel older and wiser these days and I do take the official advice: Use the prime position (ie take the road) unless it is safe to allow traffic to come past you, in which case move to within a metre of the edge.
Also, I do feel that my own observation is much better now - I don't think I'd ever get a car door opened on me for example, because I do look inside the parked cars, or ride wide if I can't see for sure. I've just asked for it there of course!
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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