Don’t know about yourselves, but in all the hype of the presidential election i didn’t know they were having state by state refereda, it seems on a range of issues too. Never knew they did that at all(assuming thats how it works, maybe someone can educate me on how and what people vote in american general elections?).

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/08/state-ballot-initiative-election-results-live-marijuana-death-penalty-healthcare

Personally, I’d like the uk to hurry the **** up and take us out of the dark ages. It’s going to happen eventually.

The prohibition era we live in makes no sense. (and someone really should tell governments that a percentage of the profits is better in their hands than ciculating in the black market, how anyone can argue against that i’ll never know..)

I think it’s ‘cos they’re gonna need it

It’s very interesting: a lot of states (California, Colorado etc) are now in contravention of federal law. How does that work? They can’t keep ignoring the issue. Either federal govt cracks down on the states or gives way to popular opinion. So far, however, for a country fighting an unwinnable ‘war on drugs’ they seem to be far more pragmatic than we are.

Think how much it’s going to cost when the start whacking tax on it…

suburbanreuben – Member
Think how much it’s going to cost when the start whacking tax on it…

quite happy for that to happen.

corroded – Member
It’s very interesting: a lot of states (California, Colorado etc) are now in contravention of federal law. How does that work? They can’t keep ignoring the issue. Either federal govt cracks down on the states or gives way to popular opinion. So far, however, for a country fighting an unwinnable ‘war on drugs’ they seem to be far more pragmatic than we are.

dunno tbh, seems the genie is our of the bottle tbh. Pretty hard to go back on it. Particularly when it’s getting voted through.

Though the republicans are in charge now and trump, so who knows.

Personally, I’d like the uk to hurry the **** up and take us out of the dark ages. It’s going to happen eventually.

Known health issues, known problems etc. perhaps legal but in a way more restrictive than fags etc. (plain packaging, no advertising allowed etc.)

On the subject of what the US Voted for, More Weed, More Minimum Wages and more death penalty…

mikewsmith – Member
plain packaging, no advertising allowed etc

I wouldn’t have a problem with that.

mikewsmith – Member
On the subject of what the US Voted for, More Weed, More Minimum Wages and more death penalty…

Yes, the article above lists those, was just wondering more, are referenda on issues like that fairly common place in america then? Or did these issues just happen to get chucked in this time?

There are known health issues with pretty much everything (alcohol, cars, guns, meat etc).
Wandering around residential Berkeley earlier this year, I’d guess one in five homes was growing their own…

There’s a vast list of things to vote on at each election in each state (called propositions, pages of them). Not out of the ordinary. The TV advertising is pretty relentless too.

Re: the health issues, yes I can believe they are a possibility. But availability is total, so whether there are or aren’t isn’t really an issue to base legalisation on. It’s a public health issue that’s there regardless..

But availability is total, so whether there are or aren’t isn’t really an issue to base legalisation on.

but it isn’t, just because you know a dealer doesn’t make it universally available, I can’t walk into a shop etc.

There are known health issues with pretty much everything (alcohol, cars, guns, meat etc).

So would you legalise tobacco today?

Yes, if its criminalisation wasn’t stopping people smoking it and instead criminalising vast numbers of otherwise law-abiding decent people and providing income to serious criminal groups.

mikewsmith – Member
But availability is total, so whether there are or aren’t isn’t really an issue to base legalisation on.

I’d be surprised if you had to ask more than a few people if you wanted some. But even if you didn’t you can legally buy seeds and cultivate your own, so yes it’s available to anyone.

corroded – Member
There’s a vast list of things to vote on at each election in each state (called propositions, pages of them). Not out of the ordinary. The TV advertising is pretty relentless too.

Cheers, interesting. tbh, I’m quite surprised at it.

Here are the full results for California’s propositions this year: https://ballot.fyi

cheers, must admit, the last 2 we’ve had have given me a somewhat negative view of them, but tbh I’m not that closed minded that, I’d throw my toys out the pram and never consider it. I’m still unsure whether I would like to see them regularly introduced here. Could be persuaded either way tbh, I would be open to arguments for and against.

btw i guess the issues are decided on a state by state basis and unique to each? Are there federal level referenda too?

Marijuana won more states than Hillary 😆

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJlqsdezhhk[/video]

If you can wreck your lungs and become subject to all sorts of nasty diseases with tobacco, I see no reason why you shouldn’t be allowed to do it by smoking dope either. With the added advantage of turning into a boring twerp who laughs at stuff that isn’t funny, can’t stop eating and turning your brain into porridge along the way…

Personally, I’d like the uk to hurry the **** up and take us out of the dark ages. It’s going to happen eventually.

In 2011 the Home Ofiice, on behalf of the PM said to a select committee:

“We have no intention of liberalising our drugs laws. Drugs (sic) are illegal because they are harmful — they destroy lives and cause untold misery to families and communities.”

Drugs are illegal because they are harmful, Aye good yin. What’s thee tax take on alcohol and tobacco? I guess that’ll be ending soon? 😆

So would you legalise tobacco today?

I wouldn’t and I also wouldn’t legalise alcohol as the affects of alcohol are not limited to health, they also cause a lot of social problems and dependancy issues that affect your whole life (whereas tobacco doesn’t)

However, as those things are legal and always will be it seems strange to delineate between a loads of drugs that all only do you harm.

In 2011 the Home Ofiice, on behalf of the PM said to a select committee:

“We have no intention of liberalising our drugs laws. Drugs (sic) are illegal because they are harmful — they destroy lives and cause untold misery to families and communities.”

As I’m sure you’ve notived quite a few things have happening in Westminster since 2011.

I think it will happen, we often follow the US, our current drug laws are a product of their ‘War on Drugs’.

There are a few crack showing, there has been a debate in Wales about it’s use for medical reasons and ‘Sativex’ a drug made from it, just with all of the fun bits takes out has been approved for use – it costs a bloody fortune of course, which is quite sad really considering really it’s made to avoid anyone with MS actually getting a bit high.

Personally, I don’t take any drugs, I don’t smoke and I very rarely drink, but I know proibition doesn’t work.

Lots of people smoke weed, that’s a fact – we produce so much of it in the UK now we actually export it (Go UK Plc!).

They’re not harming anyone, but we say it’s illegal and they face the wrath of the law if they’re caught (not that that wrath amounts to much these days)

It’s big business too, all that money, untaxed, untraced, moving from our economy into the criminal economy.

Users, using unknown, untested and unrated drugs.

The Police tearing around the place looking for growers and dealers, The Crimal Justice System processing them, the prisons holding them.

Seems terribly wasteful to me.

i didn’t know they were having state by state refereda, it seems on a range of issues too.

Yes – as above, there are always loads of things to vote on. And also loads of other minor elections at the same time, like county Sherrif and such.

That’s why there are big queues at polling stations.

Can’t see this being a good thing. The cannabis now is lethal. The old stuff fine, you could probably smoke yourself silly and still be fine. The new stuff is a mental health epidemic waiting to happen. Not that we don’t have one of those already.

dogmatix – Member
Can’t see this being a good thing. The cannabis now is lethal.

yes, all weed is all exactly the same, there is no choice, it’s mega skunk or nowt.

worth a look maybe for a CBD product available in a mainstream UK store… I’ll be trying some

LOL dogmatix… have you considered changing your name to dogma?

they destroy lives and cause untold misery to families and communities.”

By that rationale we can ban the tory party too!

dogmatix – Member
Can’t see this being a good thing. The cannabis now is lethal. The old stuff fine, you could probably smoke yourself silly and still be fine. The new stuff is a mental health epidemic waiting to happen. Not that we don’t have one of those already.

Lightweight! 😆

dogmatix – Member

Can’t see this being a good thing. The cannabis now is lethal. The old stuff fine, you could probably smoke yourself silly and still be fine. The new stuff is a mental health epidemic waiting to happen. Not that we don’t have one of those already.

Sounds like you’re saying we need some kind of regulation / grading system.

As I’m sure you’ve notived (sic) quite a few things have happening in Westminster since 2011.

You’ll have noticed that the Tories are still in power though, right?

nothing’s going to happen anytime soon, 1) there’s nothing like enough public support for it. 2) The Tories have no appetite for it. 3) if Labour raised this as an issue, the right wing press would go absolutely bananas.

This is a great video that goes into the detailed reasons why cannabis needs to be regulated…. It’s even by CNN so that should help people of a certain persuasion to take it more seriously

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnHa_WFToa0[/video]

I must admit I haven’t researched it, but I watched a Newsnight special a year or so ago and the stuff I saw being sold was all pretty heavy stuff. This was retailers in america being interviewed. I saw lots of choice, but between different types of high THC produce. Newsnight really didnt have an angle and weren’t going down a negative route. I am not sure they even brought that up as an issue. I haven’t smoked for over a decade but the strong stuff was just coming in when I was still smoking and it did start having an effect on me. One of the reasons I gave up. If legalisation led to weaker stuff being the norm, like old style grass, I would be all for it. As it is I don’t want my kids being caught up in it. I know kids from the area I grew up that have issues and I am concerned about their mental health for the future. Also, I completely get the hypocrisy with regards alcohol and tobacco. I suppose you could just legalise it and let people fall if they can’t handle it. I really am not saying it will be the end of the world and saying it should never happen. I am not a ban it all dude. I am just worried it could screw some people up.

maybe I should just have a smoke and chill 😀

try this for summin a bit more sciencey 🙂
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4Gv4e-kJBk[/video]

dogmatix – Member
I must admit I haven’t researched it, but I watched a Newsnight special a year or so ago and the stuff I saw being sold was all pretty heavy stuff.

Aye, but that’s a product of prohibition, with the lack of choice. And to be honest, to make an analogy, it’s like the difference between, beer and wine(I wouldn’t even use spirits in that anaology, and the beer and wine analogy is one you can only take so far, they are far more dangerous than the strongest of weed, for a multitude of reasons).

If you’ve strong stuff, just be more conservative in your use. It’s not like the stronger stuff has more dangerous chemicals in it, just a higher percentage of THC, it’s not inherently more dangerous, worst that’ll happen is you’ll be sick, more likely, you’ll just fall asleep.

(tbh a bigger concern would be the prevalence of soapbar, than strong weed imo. Least you know weed is weed. Soapbar was brutal stuff, thankfully, rarely seen anymore.)

There is the balance of THC/CBD that makes a difference in weed, but again, the lack of choice these lies at the feet of the authorities, so that is the prohibitionists fault.

It’s still not going to cause your average person issues though, if you are susceptible to mental health issues it may do, but then again, there will be many triggers there. It’s hardly like alcohol, other drugs, and in my opinion, more importantly, social factors are immune from causing issues there.

Re the medical argument. I support it’s legalization for those purposes. But it’s not my argument at all, so I don’t use it to back up my case, I don’t think I need to, my case is strong enough.