Help please... Anybody know what's out there to form the base of an expedition tourer?
I'm looking for a steel frame to take rigid forks, ready for rohloff (i.e with the right dropouts braze ons etc), EBB, discs and c/w rack and mudguard eyes.
Frame only and not bespoke as too many £££'s.
Ta very much.
Kona Sutra - early version with slidey drop-outs (no EBB necessary).
Pity it has to be steel....I'm sure Van Nicholas would put a set of disk mounts on an Amazon Rohloff frame for not a lot of money.
Thorn? Do they do frame only?
Rohloff can go in any frame tho using a torque arm
Send your design to Kingdom Bike. If they like it, they'll produce a prototype for you for free and pay you royalties if it's marketable.
No expert myself but the guy on this blog I've been reading has runs Santos’ Rohloff-equipped Travel Master and Thorn something or other.
He dose seem to love everything he buys or uses or gets given though. If you read the the blog you will see his bike and bags change quite a bit and quite often so I think he is getting at least some free kit. Show lots of options though for the different conditions he deals with.
sorry missed the disk requirement.
Inbred with a few extra brazons for the Rohloff, extra water bottles beefed up rack mounts if you fancy. Even after a new powder and trip to have little frame mods it should be reasonable.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERDUbAv8Qz0
But yeah, Thorn is what sprang to mind.
If you can afford one, the Salsa Fargo ticks all the boxes I think (not sure about the EBB)
Genesis alfine? Full bike though but a guy has just cycled round the world on one.
Yeah but have you seen those Thorn's? Singular Gryphon?
You need a Thorn Raven Enduro. Luckily I know someone who is selling his 
that'd be me then.
P6270152 by ir_bandito, on Flickr
Frame should be available by the end of this week. Old Man Mountain Rack (which the Raven mounts are designed for) possibly also available if you ask nicely. 
email in profile.
You need a Thorn Raven Enduro
No you need the Thorn Stirling which will take a proper rack and has heal clearance for full size panniers. It will take both disc or v brakes and they do steel forks for it or it will run with suspension forks. It also has the drop outs for the Rohloff which is a lot better than using the torque arm. Review here
The Sterling has 1" longer chainstays than the Enduro to get the better pannier clearance. Makes for a more stable ride. Which is good or bad, depending on which way you look at it. incidentally, i've carried my large Altura Orkneys on the rack setup above and had no problems.
Then Enduro is designed for 100mm forks, but I have it on good authority (from Andy Blance of Thorn) that there's no problem running longer assuming you don't mind slackening the head angle and aren't doing DH races on it.
BTW - if you don't fancy a Thorn or anything with Rohloff dropouts, there's no need for an ugly torque arm. A Speedbone or Monkey Bone does the job neater.
Phew! Thanks for the replies chaps. Food for thought...
@ Druidh. I want vert dropouts and an EBB to avoid alignment aggro when taking the back wheel out on tour. Yeah the the Van is Ti, looking for steel so it can be welded if need be.
@ TJ. Thorn don't do a rigid disc fork, they seem violently anti it..
@ TheBrick. The Santos is vee only. My Dutch is not up to translating their website to see if discs are an option, I'll drop them a line. Ta.
@ Geoffj. The Salsa is a der geared bike, doesn't have an EBB and I can't see any rack/guard mounts in the pics.
@ Yokaiser. The Genesis Alfine... Yeah closer. Alfine, hmmmm wanted Rohloff specific dropouts and it has track ends rather than an EBB/vert ends.
@Tinribz. Singulaar Gryphon. Closer, Not Rohloff specific and I can't see any rack/guard braze ons in the pics. Does it have these?
@IR and ADave2. Thorns. Hmmm. Those two look like they have suss forks, I'm looking for all rigid with discs.
Thanks so far for your help, you can see the problem now...?
Do keep em coming, there must be something out there.
I looked at this a bit myself and came to the conclusion that the only way would be custon build or get a frame modified.
How about a love / hate and get rack mounts added - ebb, use a speedbone for the rolf
weve built a few silk routes with alfine/rohloff setups....very nice! comfy to ride etc
give me a bell if you wanna chat about it
http://www.cycle-world.co.uk/products.php?plid=m1b91s21p10121
Van Dessel Ramble Tamble is EBB and Rohloff. Disc as well. Not sure about racks. Oh, 29er though.
Thanks again Gents, I think we're getting somewhere now...
@ TJ. Yep, I was coming to that conclusion too...
@ Cycleworld. You nearly had me until I saw it was Ti. Ta anyway.
@ Timbur. There's some carbon in that Van Dessel and it's a 29er.
I think I may have found a candidate. I give you the Tout Terrain Silk Road...
ooh, good choice. Like the integrated rack.
But if you change your mind, I have a pair of Orange F8 rigid forks spare...
DSC_0029 by ir_bandito, on Flickr
Is there anything in the german / dutch tourers that would work? Lots of hub geared #sit up and beg tourers. Batavus or similar
I met a guy doing 100 mile days with 25 kg of luggage on his.
Integrated rack, enclosed chain, hub gears brakes and dynamos
@ TJ. I've seen people in the back of beyond touring on 3 speed German/Dutch 'Housewives' bikes...
Unless we get something else coming up here, I think the Tout Terrain fits the bill though 'bill' being the operative word... At over £800 for frame only, that option might be cheaper bespoke. The built up cost of ~£2500 is not too bad though...
surly do one dont they....im sure we sold one in the summer.ill go look.the custom ti option is still theyre!
Just to clarify, the Salsa Fargo does have front and rear rack mounts but does not have an EBB or sliding dropouts. It also has enough water bottle mounts for 6 bottles.
I love mine and would love to go touring properly on it. Comfiest bike i own by a long way.
Take a look at the new Surly Troll, sounds perfect for this. I'm getting one as soon as they come out, can't wait!
Hmmm, that Troll does look good...
you may like the 29er we're working on - pics feb-ish.
Winter testing James?
Ok James, you've got me hooked. My list is currently Troll then Silkroad (it would be 'tuther way round but the Silky is £££'s more).
Got any more info please, early adopter here
mmmmmmmm welding that falls apart .... i was removing the EBB on the frame i aquired with a screwdriver on the ebb bolts - and the mount just fell off. lovely welds !
was a quality look on my face seemingly !
i aquired a welder - seems like appropriate scrap to practice on !
The Troll really does sound ideal: massive tyre clearance, mech/ss/gearhub/Rohloff compatible, steel, rack mounts front and back, disks/v's, it's even fairly cheap...
And really, who wants a 29er... 
@Mansonsoul Well cheap in this company where a bare Silky is nearly £800! I could get a bespoke Bob Jackson in 631 for ~£600.
Sounds like the Troll would be perfect - rohloff ready, massive clearances, suspension compatible, V brake tabs (just in case) and a burly tubeset. So far, the only negative points I can see are the lack of water bottle eyelets under the downtube (for a third bottle), which can be handy for riding long distances. Bottle mounts on the fork, a la Fargo, would have been cool too. But apart form that, it looks like a great bike.
In reference to someone's comment earlier on this thread, I've ridden two bikes during my bike trip south of Alaska - a Santos Travelmaster and a Thorn Sterling (no disc mounts on the Santos though). I'd recommend both highly, though the bikes are pretty different from each other - mainly in terms of how much kit they're happy carrying. I wrote a bit about them, and their differences, here:
http://whileoutriding.com/2009/12/23/bike-battle-not-really/
I don't get any stuff for free. Over the months, I have received bits of kit to review for some magazines, but almost all of it has been returned, eventually (like the Santos, sadly). I do get good deals to buy ex demo kit.
And, I must admit to being a kithead. I love trying out new stuff, like framebags and panniers. But I'm confident that whatever I write about it, whether for the blog I keep or reviews that end up in print, is what I genuinely think - and not just enthusiasm for all things to do with bike touring...
PS if you're really thinking expedition tourer, and heading off anywhere remote (or outside of the US and the UK) I'd stick with 26in wheels, as much as I like riding my 29er at home.
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