I can fall behind the times a bit with bike stuff as I have a tendency not to replace things until they starts to fail or really annoy me. Hence, I am still running 20yr old brakes on my MTB! (one of the first pairs of the original XT V-brakes ever produced)

I am thinking about updating a bit though which has got me thinking about what disk brakes I would want.

My only experience with disk brakes is the Avid BB7’s which I put on my commuter/utility bike with 200mm rotors. I really like them, after bedding in they feel like they have enough power to flip the bike in any situation but are still controllable, the pads don’t skim on the disks which has the added bonus of reducing noise and friction, and the cable operation really appeals to me because I don’t have to faff with fluids when servicing. Plus if something goes wrong on the trail then bodging in a rear brake or gear cable is easy compared to trying to stop leaks and frantically decanting fluids in a presta valve cap.

But I haven’t had the chance to use the BB7 for fast technical off road stuff, and have no experience using modern hydraulics. How do they stack up against each other? I’d guess the hydraulics will have a more solid lever feel? but Any other pros/cons?

Also as an aside I’m 80kgish and was thinking 180/200mm on the front and 160mm on the rear, good idea? I notice that people generally seem to be going for smaller disks than that.

I would just get Shimano Deore hydraulic. Cheap as anything and work very very well.

Mechanical are ok, but in reality not much better than well set up v’s and they need constant adjustment.

IMO 160 rotors fine unless you are super gnar rider

Hydraulic all the way. Fairly easy to shorten the hoses, and once thats done they probably won’t need touching for years…apart from pads.

Mechanical are ok, but in reality not much better than well set up v’s and they need constant adjustment.

Not really true. I use BB7s because that’s what I’ve got, and they’ve worked consistently well for the last decade (I had Hopes before them, which were also fine). If I was buying from new now I’d go the Shimano hydraulics route, though.

Hydraulic are almost fit and forget until you need replacement pads, even the Shimano Alvio level BR-M355 hydraulics that came with my Wazoo are very responsive, so I’m in no rush to replace them.

I’ve never owned cable disc brakes, but they appear to need regular maintenance to use all their potential braking power, by messing with the cable tension to ensure the rotor runs free when riding and then catch the rotor optimally to slow down.

Shimano deores, if you need to service they are really easy to bleed but are almost cheap enough to be disposable anyway.
The argument about trail side repairs makes sense if you are going somewhere truly remote and can’t get spares but on home trails you could mince home happily on one brake.
I’m a bit heavier than you and 180 on the front is more than enough, I guess if you are doing alpine trips you might want larger.

You don’t touch the cable tension with BB7s, just dial in the pads as they wear. Servicing consists of taking them off the bike once a year, dumping them in a bucket of water, spraying them with WD40 and leaving it a day or two to evaporate. But, like I say, I’d buy Hydraulics now if I was living in the UK and in the market for new brakes.

Having had both (albeit not bb7’s) definitely prefer hydro to cable. As others have said aside from pads I’ve not had to make any adjustments. Fit and forget.

I don’t have to faff with fluids when servicing.

In 20 years I’ve bled precisely 2 brakes: A front shimano years and years ago, and a hope a year or so ago, when I moved the banjo

They don’t need bleeding, these days are entirely fit and forget.

Never had an issue with Hope, Mrs has had a set of Mono Minis since they came out, I had a set until stolen, brilliant reliability.

Had 2 Shimano Hydros, both rears, fail in 10 years, not bad really.

Going BB7 next time though, having used a pair for a while on the tourer.
Cheap and work well, simple to fix.

I must have had a good set of BB7s as mine were perfect and stopped way better than V brakes (in wed/mud).

I changed to XT hydraulics just for the sake of it largely. While the stopping power was the same, the modulation was noticeably better being able to stop more easily without locking up wheels so on loose stuff stopping more quickly.

I was on BB7s for years, then, like you, I got ‘modern brake curious’ so bought some XTs. I wasted my money.

In fact, I’ve flogged the XTs to a mate and have gone back to BB7s.

The right cable outer makes a world of difference. Charlie the Bikemonger sells some that is fantastic, and not expensive.

Cables don’t ‘need constant adjustment to cable tension and pad’.

I have the lowest of the lowest end Shimano on the commuter which get absolutely no care, just an occasional turn of an allen key to tweak the pad and then not much else but a new cable when it eventually snaps (sometimes don’t even bother with a new outer, to save having to do a new bar wrap).

CX bike switches between BB7 and cable Shimano CX thingies with 160 rotors and stop fine on proper roadie duties. Again just an occasional tweak to set the pad. But after a winter of Cross I did have one rear BB7 calliper seize at the pad one adjusts with a Hex.

Saying that, I have Deore Hydro on the MTB and just ordered a CX with Sram Hydro. And if I was you, after new MTB brakes, I’d just buy Deore Hydro! For better modulation on rougher terrain

I had bog-standard Deore hydraulics for ages, and they were fine, but did occasionally need some emergency bleeding.

I also had some BB7s which were mostly fine, needed some slightly faffy setting up, but could always be bodged.

Succumbing to the marketing I bought some XT hydraulics, which leaked oil onto the rotors. Not good. I assume this problem has now been fixed, but I would be wary of older second-hand XT brakes for this reason.

I’ve now gone back to BB7s, with a warranty replacement XT brake waiting to be put back on.

Setup properly, the BB7 is fine as far as I can tell; for my kind of riding the only real downside is it’s a bit heavier than a newer hydraulic and doesn’t look as bling.

I come at this from almost as much of a timewarp, but…

Re: “Mechanical are ok, but in reality not much better than well set up v’s and they need constant adjustment,” the first bit is (IME/IMO) bobbins: they’re markedly better than Vs in the dry and the difference is night and day in the wet. Do they need constant adjustment? Depends on your local geology. In much of Wales, yes. On the South Downs, no. Using sintered pads reduces this problem quite a lot, though.

If you’re the type to have one bike and never really touch it, the hydraulics will fall into the “fit and forget” category nicely. If you’re like me and have a few bikes and a habit of juggling bits between them to repurpose them from time to time, cables are very easy to work with. Cables are also easy to adjust if you’re fussy about bite points etc; I’m not sure how easy hydraulics are in this respect.

I’ve been to Morzine a few times with BB7s, ie downhilling all day, and in that scenario I think that by mid-afternoon the lighter touch of hydros could have been beneficial, but other than that I’ve never felt the BB7s lacking for what I do. And my local geology means that pad wear with sintered pads has never been a frustration.

YMMV, but BB7s (which I now also use on the cross bike, plus Spyres on the road) have always been great for me.

Cables are also easy to adjust if you’re fussy about bite points etc; I’m not sure how easy hydraulics are in this respect.

Turny screw/knob on the caliper (I assume) for cable discs.
Turny screw/knob on the lever for hydraulic (but probably not on Deore/SLX level, only XT level).

just curious does your frame/fork and wheels have capability to fit calipers and rotors, you may need a new bike entirely to go disc brake

I’ve used BB7s for yonks but also have hydraulics on other bikes. The BB7s are so simple to maintain and adjust with more than adequate power depending on your rotor size. I got my first set in 2003 and they’re still going strong.
I’d happily do pretty much any kind of riding on the BB7s but my SRAM Guides feel much nicer in terms of modulation and are lighter.

On my disc braked bikes some have BB7s, some have XT. I prefer the BB7s…

I’d be hard pushed, BB7s are brilliant. Got them on my CX bike and they just work, minimal maintence, no pistons to clog up\break\leak. No bleeding.

Running Deore XT hyrdraulics on the mountain bike and they’re not that much better. I still have a bike with v-brakes though and the only thing I notice is the noise with muddy puddles, they still stop.

Considering flogging the mountainbike and getting a hardtail, I’m considering BB7s for that, I’m unlikely to do any alpine trips and big gnar descents don’t really interest me.

trying to stop leaks and frantically decanting fluids in a presta valve cap.

In years of riding weekly with large groups I can’t recall a single time anyone has had to do that. Worn out pads, yes, needs a bleed, yes, a couple of levers bent/snapped in crashes but no hydraulic failures. Far more likely to have a cable fray or snap I’d say. Really can’t fault them for fit and forget and (if you get a good set i.e. not old avids) probably less faff to bleed than rim brakes are to set up new pads.

You’ll probably be fine with 160 rotors. I have a 180 on the front of my hardtail because I prefer the feel but mostly so I can swap it with the full suss.

The hydraulics we have get bled yearly. Not because they need doing (the fluid usually comes out the same colour as it went in) but because it’s a good excuse to get them off the bike and give it a bit of a clean and check over. Only takes about 5-10 minutes an end to do the actual bleed. The BB5/7 we’ve had need doing about twice as often. Usually due to sticky cables. So nothing for 9 months. Then twice during the winter.
The cables cost more than the fluid and it takes longer to sort out.

My CX bike came with BB7’s fitted, they were OK but needed tweeking now and the. After a while I changed to TRP HyRd’s they performed better bur still needed tweeking now and then.
I changed to Shimano RS685’s at the start of last year and all I’ve ever had to do is change the pads and they perform better than both of the others.

Thanks some great info here.

BB7 – I found that initially aligning the caliper on the disk was a bit of a faff but I am guessing that process will be similar for any IS caliper?

As somebody who still dealing with repressed memories from the epic sessions spent trying to get cantis with post mounted pads to work just right – spending a few seconds dialling in the pads as they wear falls into the category of pre-ride checks for me and is a non-issue.

So it appears I do have the option of taking the BB7 off my commuter bike, they are up to the task and perform almost as well as anything else.

Or I could go with new Deore type Hydraulics. They are cheap, more fit and forget, more solid lever feel, slightly less strength required to operate.

Or I can let my inner monkey take control and go with XTR/XO because they are bling and they are not super expensive.

As a slight aside I’ve just found out about the TRP Spyre mechanical brakes which it seems might work slightly better than the BB7 because they are dual opposed piston.

trying to stop leaks and frantically decanting fluids in a presta valve cap.

In years of riding weekly with large groups I can’t recall a single time anyone has had to do that.

Yeah fair enough I think I am putting too much weight on a single incident I witnessed years ago. It was in Spain on the kind of terrian where no front brake would mean scrambling down steep rocky slopes carrying the bike so it stuck in my head (and it was a schrader valve cap actually).

Also my only experience working with hydro disk brakes is working on old cars with nipples that tend to round off if I don’t use a hex socket, and the fluids eat paint, and can be a real arse getting that last air bubble out of the system, etc. It is good to see that bicycle brakes don’t seem to be anyway near as troublesome to deal with.

just curious does your frame/fork and wheels have capability to fit calipers and rotors, you may need a new bike entirely to go disc brake

Very complicated to answer this as I have different bikes and parts (mostly pretty old) split on different sides of the planet. Basically I can move things around a bit and put some ’98 Z2 bombers on my old Xizang which have IS mount. Or I can get some new forks that lift the front up and slacken the head tube angle but I have to do some sums to work out if this would be a good thing or not. Or I could just get a new frame which may or may not be full suspension and may or may not suit 26″ wheels.

prior to an alps trip i decided to bleed my hydros and it went badly wrong. ham-fisted perhaps but i wound up with a rear brake on an orange 5 with both a torn piston seal and a popped reservoir. 1L of fluid later i’d figured out what was going on and those parts took a trip across the garage at speed.
one solution was straightforward, just go buy another brake, however the 5 has internal routing through the swingarm, and that meant splitting the new system, and probably bleeding it….
just couldn’t face it.
hang on a minute, i have some BB7s in the parts bin…

bought some decent jagwire cables, looked up the proper setup of them, and they did me proud for a weeks holiday in the alps. while a mate spent 3 of 5 days swearing about his brakes fading on him, and cocking about with them every evening we got back to the chalet, when i just gave my brakes a couple of clicks, pulled the lever, oiled the chain, and put the bike in the shed.

hydros work well and are generally reliable, yes, but when they go wrong they can be a right faff.

hydros can and do cook when put in extreme environments. during a holiday in verbier all of us in the group had brakes that were struggling to manage the heat build up. TBF verbier is **** steep!

cables don’t boil.

lack of self adjustment on cables ( by which i mean self adjustment for pad wear. once the cables themselves have had the slack taken out of them, you don’t touch them again ) can be a pain in the wet though. in really poor conditions sometimes i have to adjust at the bottom of descents a couple of times in the course of a ride. probably compounded (!) by unsuitable pad material for the conditions? this maybe occurs once or twice a year, but i live in the sunny south west.

conversely fitting new pads to hydros where the pistons won’t stay back is a pain leading to dragging brakes.

the cables ( outers and inners ) on the bike i use twice weekly in all weathers are at least 3 years old and have never been touched.
pad adjustment is typically done every few weeks and takes ( genuinely ) about 30s an end, tops.

when i replace pads i rattle around the calipers with a toothbrush and drop a bit of oil on the moving bits before i wind them out.
that is the sum total of my maintenance.

so, a bit like the rest of this thread, pretty evenly split. hydros or cables, both have advantages and disadvantages. choose your poison!

i would reiterate what others say though, that anyone who thinks BB7s or equivalent lack power, just haven’t used a set that are properly set up.

finally, if you hang around for a while, you can pick up a set of bb7s for not much money from people who think they are inferior to hydros. 45 quid for both ends a few months ago, still with original pads, bright and shiny. 8)

finally, if you hang around for a while, you can pick up a set of bb7s for not much money from people who think they are inferior to hydros. 45 quid for both ends a few months ago, still with original pads, bright and shiny.

And if you go to Rose bikes or similar you’ll find a set of shiny new hydraulic Shimanos for the same money (although you’ll have to swap the hoses and cut them down – and then require a bleed).

Assuming the exchange rate hasn’t messed up the cost too much, of course.

As a slight aside I’ve just found out about the TRP Spyre mechanical brakes which it seems might work slightly better than the BB7 because they are dual opposed piston.

I have both and I’m not sure there is much difference in performance but the Spyres are a little lighter. As for lining up BB7’s a tip I picked up on here was to use old hotel room plastic key cards as spacers, two one side one the other as the caliper should be set with the moving pad twice the distance from the disk as the non moving pad.

if you go to Rose bikes or similar you’ll find a set of shiny new hydraulic Shimanos for the same money (although you’ll have to swap the hoses and cut them down – and then require a bleed).

like i say, choose your poison.

BB7 – I found that initially aligning the caliper on the disk was a bit of a faff but I am guessing that process will be similar for any IS caliper?

No, it’s just about the easiest thing out there.

– wind out both adjuster knobs so there’s plenty of space for the rotor
– set the caliper bolts (the ones running front-back) to almost snug, so the caliper can move side-to-side but not in any other direction
– tighten both adjuster knobs so that the rotor is held tight, making sure it’s in the centre of the gap in the caliper body
– tighten the caliper bolts so the caliper position is set
– wind out the outboard (moving piston) adjuster knob so the pad is well clear of the rotor
– wind out the inboard (static piston) adjuster knob to the point where it is right on the margin between skimming and clearing the rotor
– wind the outboard adjuster back in to where it gives you the desired bite point at the lever

The description is a little lengthy but it takes about one minute to do.

As a slight aside I’ve just found out about the TRP Spyre mechanical brakes which it seems might work slightly better than the BB7 because they are dual opposed piston.

Note that Spyres are for drop bars (or old canti-style levers), Spykes are the V-brake lever version.

IME the Spyres only really give an advantage if pad wear adjustment is a major issue, because you can deal with it via the barrel adjuster whereas BB7s mean you have to adjust at least the static pad. Other than that, their effectiveness is comparable and the BB7s are easier to set up (but of course you only do that once). The shape of the Spyre caliper also means I’ve had to shim rotors and only just managed to avoid the caliper fouling the spokes, but that’ll depend on your wheel.

Oh, yes, someone mentioned cables. Buy the best compressionless cables you can, they’re essential.

I have used a few sets of Avid BB7. I’m led to believe the newer ones (black) are not quite as good as the older silver ones. I rated the ones I have had, both on CX bike and mountain. I have used also the older generation Shimano and currently have the XTR ones which I have had years and are very good brakes. I have quite a few of this model in very similar XT and all have never failed.

The Avid BB7 brakes are good but I would get a Shimano XT Hydro if I was you. Even some second hand little used ones would be a good option as they are so reliable and also easy to bleed if hose length is changed. My XTR were off here years ago on the classifieds and have been great as mentioned.

Hope brakes I have never liked they have let me down a few different sets and I have seen a lot of riding mates fiddling with them a lot. I hated the ones I had. headsets, lights, hubs and other bits they make I have always rated and have good things to say. The brakes though are not one of the Hope products I would not touch for the reasons above and also cost. Over priced to the max when you consider them at the side of some budget Shimano hydros or even the top end XT or XTR which are still cheaper by a fair bit.

Had many disc brake systems, from Avid mechanicals to Hope hydraulics. The latter are my favourite. The mechanicals just aren’t as good as the Hopes in terms of power, efficiency and maintenance, Hayes were absolute rubbish, and Shimano are quite poor quality. Had other brands but they’ve been too shit to even mention. I would have the Avid mechanicals over Hayes and Shimano though.

I found that initially aligning the caliper on the disk was a bit of a faff

No, it’s just about the easiest thing out there.

I did follow a similar procecss (although I didn’t bother to read the instructions) but still found myself fiddling a bit. I suspect it may be a little easier for 160mm rotors vs 200mm rotors, or maybe I need to double check the process I am following next time.

The responses seem quite varied and conflicting, lol.
I was impressed with the BB7, I am comparing them with V-brakes though and I did instinctively pick out a rigid feeling brake outer (which I think was jagwire).
Quite a few other people here are also positive about the BB7, enough to make me think it is certainly a viable proposition.
One of the options I’m considering running multiple forks on my old Xizang – with and cable setup forks can be switched in under a minute, with hydraulics switching forks is not really an option.
I want to try and test ride some newer bikes to see what all the fuss is about though.