My son’s 18th birthday is just around the corner and he wants a Macbook for uni in the autumn. He’ll be doing what is basically a computer science/3d animation course. One way or another, I have got grandparents etc to club together and we’ll have the funds to buy said Macbook, max out the memory and get Applecare for 3 year.

IMO a Macbook is fine, and if he uses something like VMFusion he can run windows apps (as I do on my Macs) but… as he’ll be programming (C sharp, Java etc) the fact that the keyboards are different may well make life more difficult that it need be. Do any of you, with experience in this area, think he’d be ok with the Mac or should he spend the money on a Windows laptop instead?

I just don’t have the knowledge to make an informed decision on this.

(Oh yes, he has an iMac already if that helps)

Keyboard won’t make any difference at all. Don’t upgrade the memory via Apple though – ridiculously expensive.

At Leeds (I did Comp Sci there), all software development was in Linux. Bear that in mind, it can be a PITA to get Linux running happily on a Mac and even more so to make OpenGL work properly. I believe things are better with the latest Ubuntu build.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MactelSupportTeam/AppleIntelInstallation

On the other hand, if he’s using C# then he can use Bootcamp to Windows and not have any problems. Keyboard should present no issues, in Windows the Cmd key is equivalent to the Windows key and Ctrl/Alt do the same as usual. With enough RAM he could probably get Visual Studio running under Server 2008 in VMware anyway.

Java can, obviously, be coded on anything. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck, though.

New Macs now come with 4GB of RAM, can’t see how he’d really need more than that, otherwise get it from Crucial and not Apple. No warranty implications for doing your own upgrade.

Don’t forget if he is working on it for long hours he will likely buy himself a larger monitor and an external ‘full’ USB keyboard which cost as little as a tenner.

I’d definately get an aluminium macbook, it will last the 3-4 years he is studying. I bought my Macbook pro in 2006 and upgraded the Ram, it is physically in better shape and generally out performs my own and my wifes work wintel laptops that are both under 6 months old.

Thanks guys….. I had a long chat with the course tutors when he/we went round for the “open day” and they will be using XP Pro. I can’t remember why Linux was off the menu but he did explain it 😳 If there won’t be any issues then there’s really no reason why not to get the Macbook then is there?

Presumably he’ll be able to pinch the keyboard from his iMac and either hook up to use the iMac screen or he can use an old 19″ TFT I have got hanging around somewhere.

No issues at all, XP pro SP2 runs fine on bootcamp or as a VM.

I don’t think there is an input on the imac to just use it as a monitor. Is it an old non-intel one? I’m sure if he is taking it with him he will find a use for it – watching films, itunes etc.

With VMware Fusion he can run whatever other OS he needs – windows, linux, OSX server, etc.

Keyboard isn’t a problem – all the keys are there. You can set up the Windows VM to use the same keymap easily, or if he can touch-type on the standard UK layout (” for shift-2 rather than @, for instance) then you can change to that and just ignore what’s on the keys.

I go back and forth a lot (currently Apple keyboard plugged in to my work Vista laptop) and it really doesn’t bother me that some keys are the wrong way round, you just remember which ones!

Bear in mind that education pricing is very good on Apple kit but you can usually only buy at that price through the uni’s own network (see here). They usually have a deal to give a free iPod – it’s an iPod Touch this year – when you buy a Macbook. Given that he won’t need it until a couple of weeks into his time there, I’d say best to wait and buy it through the edu route.

Also with the Applecare – you can take it out at any point during the first year. I’ve always left the cash in the bank and taken it out later on than giving it to Apple up-front.

His iMac is maybe a year old, 24″ monitor – he has been doing video production and 3d animation – and has indulgent grandparents!

Simon – yes I spotted the education discount thingy. I wonder if he can get it through his college before they break up. Worth having a go I suppose… then I can have the iPod! LOL! 🙂

Keyboard IS an issue

It took me ages to be able to type # in XP running under parallels
Also, try typing cntrl-alt-delete…

For sure there are workarounds, but it is not 100% straightforward. I know as I write code on the Mac.

But, Macbooks are ace bits of kit and I’d buy another

David… where is the hash key? Burgered if I can find out the right combination.

ALT-3

Thanks!

#########################

I can do it at last!!!!!!

###########

woohoo! 🙂

Little things…. little minds etc!

You should be aware that Apple offers education discounts on many of it’s products (including care packages I think). They also have re-furbished items for sale.

I use a Macbook Pro for programming/computer sciency stuff. It’s great.

As someone else mentioned, memory upgrades are cheaper through crucial or somewhere similar than at the time of purchase.

Much as I hate them, we have a smattering of students with macs. They seem to cope fine with the computer science course, it’s mainly Java here, but they do some C++.

Anything that is hassle, you can always use a lab computer, they have to use them for some of the exams/tests anyway (other than some courseworks which they can remotely submit).

If he has a fancy new imac in his room, then he probably won’t really need the external keyboard / monitor, just needs to learn how to transfer files to/from the laptop – it isn’t like he’ll want to carry the keyboard around with him.

Depending on what animation software they use, he might need to boot into windows (eg. if they use 3d studio max or some such), although if it’s something fancy he probably can’t afford his own copy anyway, unless there’s a super student deal on it.

Joe

so where are the pc fanboys?
how very odd??

Not sure what the animation software is… I just know they don’t use Maya and that is what he knows/uses at the moment.

It seems then that what he’ll need is VM Fusion or similar, even Bootcamp, a copy of XP Pro and he’s away!

slowjo – Member

Thanks guys….. I had a long chat with the course tutors when he/we went round for the “open day” and they will be using XP Pro. I can’t remember why Linux was off the menu but he did explain it If there won’t be any issues then there’s really no reason why not to get the Macbook then is there?

Linux will be off the menu due to the 3d animation side of things. I assume as he’s programming and Modeling he’s doing a new fangled games development degree?

3dsMax and Maya along with a lot of Windowa only freeware is the mainstay of the Games degree’s round ‘ere, no Linux verions for those.

Now I really like macbooks and think they’re great computers, but doesn’t it seem like the programs he will be using all seem to be for windows? Wouldn;t it be easier just to get a windows laptop for this? Especailly if hes got an imac already

Ah… if his iMac is only a year old then is there really any point in getting an additional laptop? 32GB thumb drive and the Uni computers are probably a better bet in that case. Unless they specifically say he needs a laptop for lectures and practicals, I wouldn’t bother.

I didn’t realise the iMac was so new in my first reply.

One of my bugbears was people playing on laptops during lectures. 🙂

mickyfinn…. yes you are spot on about the degree, just can’t remember what the full course title is!

tomzo, to an extent I agree with you and it does seem logical but……..

Flaperon… they have stipulated a laptop

Erm… just skimmed this but surely if you are doing 3d animation you would want the Macbook Pro? The Macbook doesn’t have a dedicated graphics card does it?

so where are the pc fanboys?

Here, but I don’t see a reason that if you prefer a PC with an Apple on the front, and are willing to pay more for the fancy logo, as this guy is, and you’ve obviously got tons of money to spare, then you won’t get hurt by spending the extra. They’re just PCs nowadays except for the software, so they run Windows fine. Worst case is, you just run it in Windows and you’ve spent £500 more than you need for a fancy logo. He’s a kid anyway, they like fancy logos.

Only thing that it is worth being aware of is that a lot of places the tech support people won’t support vmware, if he needs help with the software he might need to just boot it into windows.

Joe

I’m a mac fanboi and would support the idea of a macbook. The only potential fly in the ointment could be running 3d apps under VM Ware. You couldn’t run the 3D fly throughs from Memory Map under VM Ware.
A google search for the specific applications should provide the answers though.

The newer macbooks have much better graphics than the old ones so that’s probably not an issue, bootcamp would use it with the correct windows drivers so that too would not be a problem. If he must use a VM layer on top of OSX then the newer VMWare and parallels also now support OpenGL although performance takes a hit.

For the most part I think the macs are worth the extra money, as already stated my 2 1/2 year old macbook pro (cost £1250) does not look it’s age and performs better than my wintel work laptop that cost £900 new 6 months ago.

You can use BootCamp to run windows natively instead of Vmware if you need 3D support.

You can even use the same partition to boot windows in BootCamp and Fusion if you want.

I did full time pro development including visits to debug software on customer sites with no problem on my Macbook.
Battery life is good too.

Macs also have MILES better resale value than a PC equivalent laptop, which after 3-4 years is worth virtually nothing.

Isn’t this all moot? 18 year old… 24″ iMac and ‘needs’ another machine?

When I was at uni….

… we had to scrounge parts from computer fairs and build frankenputers that were powerful enough to run 3D stuff. All that tinkering taught us a lot about the machines. In fact, a large proportion of my uni friends work in the IT world now.

*sits in the garden drawing on MBP

Good point flamejob, bloody hell – only just noticed the bit about the imac! I thought buying myself a Macbook was extravagant aged 26 and working full time!

Kids these days, etc…

I totally agree….. when I was at uni, computer time was only for the maths faculty!!! He’ll be living at home and commuting so carrying a 24″ iMac on the bus/train might be a tad difficult!

My son… extravagant….. well yes. Trouble is, when I start to go on about it he just points to my bikes. Maybe if I just had one uber shonky singlespeed I could have some moral authority but it is a bit difficult with 5 bikes sitting in the shed.

The other bit you may have missed was…..”indlugent grandparents” and I mean indulgent!!!

I totally agree….. when I was at uni, computer time was only for the maths faculty!!! He’ll be living at home and commuting so carrying a 24″ iMac on the bus/train might be a tad difficult!

My son… extravagant….. well yes. Trouble is, when I start to go on about it he just points to my bikes. Maybe if I just had one uber shonky singlespeed I could have some moral authority but it is a bit difficult with 5 bikes sitting in the shed.

The other bit you may have missed was…..”indlugent grandparents” and I mean indulgent!!!

oops… double post

13 inch Macbook Pro has nvidia geforce 9400m which is fairly capable for an integrated chipset. Won’t be fazed by basic 3D modelling and rendering. Next ones up have geforce 8600 IIRC, which is an order of magnitude more powerful.