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1. SaxonRider - Member

   In light of the doing well in life thread, I thought I would solicit your thoughts on the question of security.

   I have a substantial-sized family, live in a wonderful house in a wonderful neighbourhood, am essentially debt-free except for the mortgage, and have a relatively secure job that has generally allowed me to do many (though not all) of the things I want to do outside of work.

   Having said all that, involuntary redundancies have been announced recently, and because I have not been overwhelmingly happy there, I have entertained the notion of what would happen were I to be given a pink slip.

   Now I know that many of you have experienced redundancies over the last few years, and I am wondering how you have managed to keep your houses, etc. I am afraid (only mildly), because I don't want to have to uproot my kids, yet I don't think I could take much of a salary reduction and still pay my bills.

   Essentially, while I don't feel in any way attached to my job, I do feel attached to the salary, and I can not see how I would cope if the worst were to happen (or better yet, if I were to just walk away on a voluntary basis).

   Posted 1 year ago #
2. binners - Member

   I hate to break it to you but there's nowt you can do. Due to the wonders of globalisation, we are all now well and truly cut adrift. Left entirely to the mercy of 'The Markets. Very few people are insulated from it

   What has changed I think over previous recessions is just the shear speed with which it can all come crashing down around your ears. Take it from me. I lost pretty much everything in less than twelve months. From the things you described to 'none of the above'. It was breathtaking how quickly it went pear-shaped. Having said that I was on a course with a guy who had just lost his job. He had a huge house, Range Rover, kids in private education, the lot. Now that facade was built on an awful lot of credit. He was bricking it!!! Made me feel quite lucky in comparrisson

   I know it sounds harsh but if i were you I'd count your blessings. You won't feel a sense of security because there isn't any. Hasn't been for decades. If you think there is, with this lot on power, you're delusional

   Just enjoy it and don't worry about things. If it happens, it happens. Nowt you can do. Only worry about the things you're capable of influencing. ie: nowt!

   There you go. Advice from someone who lost it all and presently couldn't care less

   Posted 1 year ago #
3. titusrider - Member

   Can you control your destiny?

   ie. if your not happy and your job is not secure why not start applying for other jobs now before the worst happens?

   Posted 1 year ago #
4. molgrips - Member

   Only worry about the things you're capable of influencing. ie: nowt!

   You can influence things. Make sure your skills are up to date, you're looking outwards to what's going on around your company, please those for whom you work so you are less likely to get binned, and if you do they'll do it reluctantly and help you get a new job..

   And so on.

   Posted 1 year ago #
5. xiphon - Member

   ^^ Being in a job for years which you might not be too happy with, is more secure than being the latest new staff member.

   Last in, first out...

   Posted 1 year ago #
6. SaxonRider - Member

   I appreciate what you're all saying, but I'm only trying to think ahead by considering such questions as:

   - Is it possible to manage such costs as a mortgage on a seriously-reduced income (at least in the short term)?
   - Seeing as we don't live any sort of ostentatious lifestyle, what sorts of outlets could there be for pulling through a tough economic period?

   Posted 1 year ago #
7. binners - Member

   - Is it possible to manage such costs as a mortgage on a seriously-reduced income (at least in the short term)?

   No is the simple answer

   Seeing as we don't live any sort of ostentatious lifestyle, what sorts of outlets could there be for pulling through a tough economic period?

   Believe me, when faced with it and the options are pretty unpalettable, you'll find them

   One very easy example:

   Cost of last car = £13,500
   Cost of present car = £600

   Not difficult is it. Basically you strip out all the superficial unnecessary ego-flattering crap. Because if it all goes tits up, you have no choice. If you're that bothered, start doing it now. But it does take a serious change of mind-set. Once you're there though, you'll wonder why you were ever bothered

   Posted 1 year ago #
8. DaveRambo - Member

   If you want to do something about it - start paying off a bit more of your mortgage so you can survive on a lower salary.

   Sort out enough savings to give you 6mnths of living on essentials and you're all set.

   If you get made redundant you can cancel a lot of stuff, reduce what you spend, talk to the bank about interest only payments (or your mortgage might let you take holidays etc)

   This will give you time to think about what you want to do.

   Posted 1 year ago #
9. footflaps - Member

   It's always easier to get a job if you already have one. Employers view the unemployed as having something wrong with them (unfair, but generally true*).

   * the view is true, not that there is anything wrong with them..

   Posted 1 year ago #
10. binners - Member

    please those for whom you work so you are less likely to get binned, and if you do they'll do it reluctantly and help you get a new job.

    I'm sorry Molgrips, but I've just laughed out load at that. Seriously, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU LIVING ON?

    Posted 1 year ago #
11. MoreCashThanDash - Member

    Not much you can do - got made redundant from a successful career down south in 1999, gave us time to realise I didn't want to continue that career as I didn't want to have to commute to London, and we couldn't afford a family living down there - jacked it in and followed Mrsswadey up here to Derbyshire.

    Kept being told I was overqualified for jobs I was looking at up here, ended up being a postie and doing call centre work to keep myself sane. Did a part time degree course, we started a family, I got a lowly management job that enabled mrsswadey to work as little as possible, did all we could to cope on an income less than half we were used to - cheap cars, camping trips not foreign holidays, recycling clothes and toys round families and friends.

    It is possible to cope, which is just as well as we need to lose 20% of our staff by the end of June and no one actually volunteered. Here we go again!

    Posted 1 year ago #
12. mboy - Member

    I'd like to say that reading binners' comments that he is bitter, twisted, and generally wrong...

    HOWEVER... He is totally correct! 4 redundancies in the last 2 and a bit years (and currently on the dole again) have changed my view on things a lot. And trust me, it's not like I don't have the skills! Compared to others my age (30) I have a lot of experience and skills, and have done some very well paid jobs. Problem is, in a recession, a lot of the well paid jobs get hit! And that's what happened to me... And ever since I lost my first well paid job, the LIFO (last in first out) principle has applied the other 3 times. Being sat across the table from someone saying "we don't want to lose you, you're a great asset and have got so many good skills, but we simply can't afford to keep you" gets annoying when you've heard it a few times!

    THE BEST advice I can offer anyone right now is that if you have a good, well paid job, and some years of service in it. Stick with it for the time being. It might be dull, but it will be too expensive for them to bin you off compared to newer people, so you have an advantage there. When times are better (they're showing signs of picking up in the real world too, not just the govt's massaged figures) then start looking for more work or taking a voluntary redundancy. I have NEVER known any employer to bin someone off and then help them look for another job though, Molgrips you are on another planet I'm afraid! It's not always dog eat dog, but you do have to look after yourself. Companies only make people redundant cos they have to look after their own interests, so make sure you look after your own too!

    Anyway... Some positive news... I have a couple of 2nd interviews to attend soon, so hopefully back into a (reasonably well paid) job soon, so shouldn't have to cull the bikes back too much I hope!

    Posted 1 year ago #
13. binners - Member

    Good luck with the interviews mboy. Sounds like you've had similar experiences to myself.

    Posted 1 year ago #
14. djglover - Member

    Make a plan for it. I have a relativley secure job in a change programme that would seem to last several years into the future but I still plan for the worst. That involves saving like mad now, then selling up to move to a cheaper part of the country if it did happen, much like Swadey. I don't worry about it too much at all now as I would just exceute my plan.....

    If that doesn't happen then I'll have loads of extra cash for early retirement...

    Posted 1 year ago #
15. molgrips - Member

    please those for whom you work so you are less likely to get binned, and if you do they'll do it reluctantly and help you get a new job if you are very lucky.
    

    Better?

    Posted 1 year ago #
16. xiphon - Member

    If you apply for a job while unemployed, the employers WILL offer you a much lower salary.... as they are exploiting the fact you are [most likely] desperate.

    Something to think about.

    Posted 1 year ago #
17. binners - Member

    Serious question for you Molgrips. Have you any direct experience of that happening?

    Maybe I am very cynical. But I've seen a lot of redundancies, and in my experience it tends to involve someone getting the hard word, then emptying their desks and being escorted off the premises like criminals.

    Posted 1 year ago #
18. Non Stop Nun - Member

    Have you taken insurance out on your mortgage ? if so check that it will pay out it you take your money rather than the firm make you redundant.
    If your wife works you will only get dole for yourself i dont know how much it is nowadays plus you only get it for 26 weeks sfter that you will be means tested so any savings you have are taken into account.

    Posted 1 year ago #
19. binners - Member

    xiphon raises another good point. But you don't have to be unemployed for that to apply. Just a cursory glance at the jobs market in my own sector shows that salaries are plummeting. I reckon companies are whacking 25%-30% off salaries across the board (compared to 2-3 years ago)when advertising new positions.

    Its the most basic premise of capitalism. The principle on which our society ios now entirely based: Supply and demand.

    If you advertise a position and know you're going to get 150-200 applicants (and I know from experience these are the numbers you're taling about). A lot of whom will be of an extremely high calibre, experienced, highly skilled and keen/desperate, then you can do it. You can name your price (within reason)

    In't capitalism BRILLIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANT!!!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #
20. Rockhopper - Member

    Mboy - I was made redundant last April, they got rid of six of us in total. Because they didn't get rid of everyone in my job description they had to choose who was going to go based on all sorts of criteria. However length of service wasn't one of them! Myself and my mate were the two longest serving employees in that role and we both got canned. I was there for seven years and i think he had done about 20. Two of the guys who stayed had only been there for about two years.

    Posted 1 year ago #
21. mrmo - Member

    currently doing some temp work for c£16K pro-rata, a paycut of around 6k off my last proper job, there are jobs around that would pay a tad more, and i mean a tad, but once you add in travel i would be worse off.

    Looking for a job is not a good situation to be in at the moment, yes there will always be exceptions and you may have some skill that means you can get a decent salary, banker, FTSE chairman, local councillor, etc.

    Posted 1 year ago #
22. samuri - Member

    Here's what we did when I got made redundant.

    Mortgage holiday immediately, just to buy us some breathing space. 3 months of no payments.
    Set the credit card payment to the absolute minimum, automatic.
    I got my dole money out, that was the money we could spend through the week. No more shopping at Marks, ALDI and NETTO.
    Sold a bike, that was a sad day. Money went straight into saving for a rainy day.

    Luckily, I found out who my friends were very quickly and a number very kindly found me some contract work here and there, it's what kept us going through the difficult times. I moved around an awful lot and worked very, very hard at times but it was worth it.

    I'm not sure that last bit helps.

    Posted 1 year ago #
23. samuri - Member

    Oh, and at the end of it. I got a job in security.

    See what I did there?

    Posted 1 year ago #
24. project - Member

    Saxon rider, just think if the company you work for goes bust, no money for redundancy, just what the governmment say is the maximum they pay out, so a couple of weeks for each year youve worked, your company car insurance becomes invalid so you cant drive it, everything your company supplied you becomes the property of ther reciever/liquidator.

    Then theres the thought of all your workmates turning up at the job centre the same day to sign on.

    Posted 1 year ago #
25. druidh - Member

    To the OP - you need to take a view on how likely it is you'll be made redundant. Based on that, you can start cutting expenditure and putting away some savings. Blithely carrying on as if "it'll never happen" will put you in a worse position.

    If you imagine the worst and it doesn't happen, you'll have acquired a nice wee nest egg with which to consider repaying your mortgage and/or taking early retirement.

    TBH, this really isn't rocket science and yet 99% of the population seems to have forgotten that some level of financial prudence is a good thing.

    Posted 1 year ago #
26. neallyman - Member

    All these posts touch a nerve.
    I put my heart and sole into my career during my 20's after I graduated from uni, only to be spat out by the property and bank crash in 2008. Then I had 2 months sitting around wondering wtf happened? But the reality was that I made an ill-timed move from a 'secure' position because I was caught up in the bubble and thought I was moving to my bullet-proof dream job[i] with a chunky pay rise. However I was only there for 8 weeks before Lehman Brothers went under and so did my job! On reflection I wanted to blame anything and everyone but truth be told I'd got caught up in an ego-spiral. I thought I was the best around and that my promotions and pay rises were testament to the fact that I was bullet-proof. Not so.

    But, it was the best thing that happened to me and seriously changed my outlook. I'm in another job now, but I only work my alotted hours, I don't go out my way to try and impress everybody and I try to have a better balance. I used my time off to get in shape and loose the weight I put on working ridiculous hours and eating crap for years while 'furthering my career'. It was also the time I got into bikes as a result of the fitness thing.

    My job right now is not safe and I'm still in a temporary role, albeit the same one I managed to find in 2008 by shear good fortune.But in answer to the original post, I don't loose any sleep over it. What will be will be. We missed 6 months mortgage payments at that point and were lucky to have an understanding lender. If it happens again we'll just have to try and make the best of it. All anybody can do.

    And, to keep a bit of perspective, I'll always now hold the value of a tenner dearly...that being the hourly pay I was earning 'bagging' coal by the tonne in freezing rain and snow for the father-in-law's coal merchant business while I was laid off.

    Posted 1 year ago #
27. druidh - Member

    £10 an hour bagging coal? That's more than I get paid!!!

    Posted 1 year ago #
28. neallyman - Member

    Well I'll see if there's any jobs going for you if you want then Druidh. Gotta be big and strong tho mind, each bag is 50kg and he expects 20 bags an hour minimum...

    Posted 1 year ago #
29. Blackflag - Member

    Im in the same boat mate. Chance of a) redundancy or b)relocation and pay cut. Its not the worst possition to be in compared to some, but when you've put a lot into your career its a bit tough to take. I think the lesson im taking from all this is not to invest so much of youself and being defined by your job, as your employer can take this away from you very quickly and then your left with nothing.

    Sometimes its just the rub and as binners says theres nowt you can do about it.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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