We’ve wanted one for ages. My boys are now 6 and 3 and the perfect age to start getting away more at the weekends with (less) hassle than a year or so ago, and the perfect size for a small camper van.

We’re not really big campers, I could never really be arsed with putting up tents to stay in one place, and not really a fan of campsites. My idea of getting away from it is not being parked alongside 30 other folk doing the same. Nevertheless, ahead of ordering a California after spending years deciding on a perfect specification, we thought we’d hire one. We took off to do 500 in a few days up to the Highlands.

Not long back, and feel really disappointed.

The good
It a good size to drive on the roads, no issues getting anywhere nadgery
We sat at 65mph nearly all the way, and returned 40mpg (this was the 204bhp, DSG T6 Ocean)
Adaptive cruise control fitted made driving slowly behind jump ties who love a good brake pedal really not stressful at all… First time I’ve used it, my next car will have it.
The diesel heater is quiet and bloody effective

The bad
I didn’t find the seats comfortable for a long drive, surprised at that…
I wasn’t expecting it to be quick, but it felt really flat (and noisy)
The seats mark really easily. Even a water spill left a stain. If I’d just dropped £60k on one I’d be devestated how easily they mark (although it’s cleaned up okay). Maybe Alcantara is better?
The roof canvas leaks supposedly, not really close to water proof according to the salesman (heavy rain last night had us waiting for ingress). Needs a topper.
The standard Ocean doesn’t come with a mattress topper for downstairs, my back is still hurting (maybe I should MTFU, but not for £60k – it should be standard)
The new front window blinds want to retract continuously, and a bit more fiddly than they need to be to close
The front seats take a lot of gigging about to swivel without marking the doors/pillars. We got on okay, we were clearly a lot more patient than the previous renters
You can’t expect to cook if the internal table is being used. We thought we’d be outside cooking anyway, but because it was lashing down we had no option. I guess it needs a side awning…

The biggest problem though is just the usability of the storage. There really isn’t much for more than one or two nights away for a family. The upper shelf can only really take sleeping bags because once you flatten the bed you need to move everything off, and there’s nowhwhere to put the stuff you move without going outside (acceptable I suppose if it’s not lashing down, or again, if you’ve got a side awning.

The drawer underneath the rear bench seems useful, except if it wasn’t there at least you could slide stuff around underneath to get things or put stuff away. As it is, you have to get out the van and open the back up to reach the limited storage you do have.

The internal table is also compromised. I know why it’s the size it is, but it could really do with being a bit longer or extendable so four could use it, rather that just two.

The conclusion I’ve come to is the size is fine for four if you have a drive away awning for storage and cooking, maybe putting two people in to sleep and maybe a portable toilet too. It was lashing down last night and I spent the whole night (because I couldn’t sleep without the mattress topper) wondering at what time I’d be taking the three year old to the toilet, only to return wet with nowhere to get changed in the van. I guess wild camping with no toilet, in our weather, is too risky (at least with kids) – and I don’t want to be on a campsite.

Without a side awning, at least for four, I think it’s just too small. Maybe I’m missing something?

Regardless of all of that, the choice of material for the seats is crazy, the carpets don’t suit those who like mud, and the general quality of fit and finish is nothing like the web leads you to believe. It’s not a premium van in my opinion, and it’s not cheap.

It’s on the drive now. I still want to buy it, and I have no idea why. I’ve only ever read good things about it online, both my wife and I keep wondering how we can be so wrong… Off to look at a Buerstner Ixeo tomorrow. Absolutely not cool, but for the same money I think it’ll be a better fit for us.

Not sure what you expected from something with the footprint of an estate car.

A tardis ?

I do agree on you – value for money they are not.

Imo they are a fine day van for 2 , you have to really want to make them work for any more than that . Ill take the slight inconvienance of a bigger vehicle to drive than being able to use teh van as a daily driver any day.

Agree completely, total naivety thinking it was doable without an awning. But we hadn’t realised how the inaccessible the limited storage would be…

Edit: was about to add this to the OP, but I think I read so much borderline evangelical posts all over the net, that it was fine for a young family of four without an awning (and I wanted to believe it). I don’t want my weekends to be a military exercise in planning, my week is enough of that, but it’s how I think people must get it to work for them.

I can’t see how you’d want one and not want to be on campsites ever? They’re not as good as a proper camper van imho. Only time I’d consider one of those was if I could drop 100k on something pretty substantial and then I’d want a small car towed behind so we didn’t have to derig everything to nip to the shops. First impressions etc..

I don’t understand them, but I don’t understand 1) Campers, especially expensive ones £60k buys a lot of lovely holidays that don’t involve shitting in a bucket or sleeping in van 2) Transporters in general, I think a lot of people miss the asterix oh they drive beautifully *for a van they comfortable *for a van they’re economical *for a van etc.

Each to their own, but everytime someone tells me they’ve spent £40k on a Van as their daily-vehicle to make the scarce few hours a week they get to do their hobby a tiny bit easier I think they’ve lost their dam mind.

I grew up with the original VW caravanette, I even did my driving test in one. I always thought when I was old and bent that I would get one, or the modern equivalent of. Now that oldness and bentness has come upon me and I can no longer be bothered with camping in the cold, midges and wet: I fancy one BUT £60k!!! you are ******* joking! For that money me and the OH can stay in a luxury hotel whenever the mood takes us for the rest of our earthly span; it’s not as if there were no associated running costs owning a Shagin’ Wagon either!!!

I could drop 100k on something pretty substantial and then I’d want a small car towed behind

Dropping that much money you want to be like the people we passed this evening on the London outer car park.
Evoque on a trailer behind the van!!

this is why i bought my T5 2nd hand and have converted it so that it suits my needs…. not what some ultra efficient Germans in Wolfsburg think everyone wants.

the Calis are ok… in a beige sort of way.

look at buying a standard Kombi and converting it yourself or finding a firm to do it for you.

don’t bother with SCA or Reimo roofs. as you say, the canvas isn’t water proof. instead, have a look at HiLo roofs. much higher lifting means you do not scrape your head on the ceiling. they open out and have a lower profile when closed meaning you do not stand out as a “camper”.

if you look at a LWB you’ll find you’ll have enough room for either you or the kids to sleep behind the 2nd row of seats. no more sliding and collapsing the seats back and forth to make a (uncomfy) bed.

will post some pics of mine later….

You can get a lot more camper for £60k. I never knew they cost that, it’s almost as bad as the £44k swb Landrover Defender that’s up for sale down the road.
I’m sure that some fool will be easily parted from their money though.

Or start with something a descent size and just accept its less efficient but a much nicer place to be when your parked up.

They are definitely a campsite van… I hadn’t really been on one for ages and although I was really impressed with the site (Blair Castle up in Pitlochry), I really found being surrounded by so many other people pretty claustrophobic.

Again, I realise this might be bleeding obvious to those who are experienced with sites, but for us it was a reminder that I want a van big enough to have everything I need to get away from everybody. Looking back, I can’t believe I thought wild camping with a family and a California was remotely possible or well thought through – at least for us.

Anyway, the post was more meant to highlight that I really can’t see how it’s such a lauded van for quality or attention to detail. Seats, fabrics, colours, unit fit, the Windows were delaminating (10k miles), short table etc. I could have lived with all that for £40k maybe, but not the current price.

I have had a VW camper for 15 years. They are great for two people as they are small enough to drive anywhere. We have taken ours all over Europe as a couple.

Even after having children we used it a lot, but now they are 3 and 5 it is a little more difficult. You need a decent size awning so that you can put the child seats outside at night. Awning also allows you to store bedding etc if you want to use the van during the day without spending an hour packing everything away.

However for days out/picnics etc they are perfect as there is so much storage, we are now using ours more as a day/overnight van rather than a holiday vehicle.

I can see that Paul.

Funnily enough Alpin, a mate with an 8Ball LWB is telling me he’s coming over this week to show me the error of the Cali’s way… I’ll have bought something deeply uncool (but bloody comfortable) before then. 🙂

Isn’t the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!

We have a T4 camper. Home converted. 225k on the clock. But bought off a friend for under £4,000. It has never disappointed me…

Edit to say that we just spent 4 ace weeks in the Pyrenees in it. A mix of campsites then wild camping. Two adults and two kid at 10 and 12. Plus five bikes. Kids in a tent when in sites but in the roof when not.

I recently had a hired camper based on a fiat ducato panel van 6m long). again around £60 000 worth of vehicle. this was for two folk for 2 weeks. Still a bit cramped and short of space. campers are a compromise. I have also rented a bigger one – as big as you can drive on a B license (8m?) – that was great to camp in but dreadful on smaller roads

the reason we hired on this time was we were going up north and the forecast was poor – so for that it did its job. Had the tandem in the back and all for driving ( i won’t put it on a rack)

all campers are compromises – just pick what you want to compromise on more. with two kids I’d be looking at something much bigger than what you had.

Mind you my parents spent 3 months in one when me and my sister were small – and that was a bedford C1 which makes the california look big.

There are cheaper options available. *

*may not have VW badge

“Isn’t the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!”

Its only an issue if you park that way round……if it was such an issue you would just turn the car round and park the other way…….then when your in a country in europe that enforces the face the traffic rule your doors on the right side 🙂

If I had that much cash to blow, I’d be looking at a compact low profile coachbuilt with a fixed rear bed and garage. As a plus, it will have a proper bog.

Not sure if you’ll find one in the 6 metre ‘car space’ category with 4 berths, but you won’t need to go much longer. You can also get slimline ones that are only a few inches wider than the cab.

The rear bed can be great, a whole set of bedding that doesn’t need a home, a lounging space/2nd room in poor weather, space for coats/bags/kids bedding, the list goes on. And of course, garage space underneath for family junk, or bikes.

You may not like campsites, but surely they are easier with young kids?

Perhaps try some of the ‘certified locations’ micro campsites, often limited to just 5 units and a tap. We stayed at one, I think it was £5 per pitch and we camped on a grass strip up the side of a cornfield…lovely 🙂

I’ll say it like I say on every T5 camper thread; the layout of the Amdro Angel conversion runs rings around any other that I’ve seen. Huuuuuuuge amount of storage space.

Isn’t the main problem with the VW converted vans that the slide door is on the wrong side meaning your kids have to hop out in to the traffic? Suicide doors!

forgot that UK Calis are just Euro Calis with the steering wheel swapped over…

just had a look on the 8Ball site… not really much different to a Cali layout, is it?

Bothered my wife a lot more than me, Ian. I was aware of it on the 50 times we stopped for the kids to have a wee on the journey, but not enough that would stop my buying one.

Agreed TJ, I suppose this the start of a process that I really wanted to be the end of one. Again, blissful ignorance or naivety on my part. I was hoping to swap the car for a camper, realise I’ll need both now.

But if you are in the uk you need to park ‘that way round’ because other wise you have to drive on the wrong side of the road. You arrivals allowed to do that if there’s a marked parking area.

Fine when camping up for the night but my experience of owning a T4 camper as our only vehicle is the actual parking it for caring is the minority.

I think you’ve come across the problems a lot of people have, it’s just not what you expect it to be.

You have to make it work for what you want. I used to have a proper California with all the kitchen etc and like you found it too small to be useful. I sold that and bought a California beach (same but without the kitchen) which for me was 100times better. I use a waeco coolbox which takes up no room, cook outside and don’t miss the sink. I never used the cooker and rarely used the sink in my old Cali.
Because there’s no stuff inside a beach you get a full width bed which is slightly shorter than the full Cali so also more room when it’s down, more storage at the rear under the bed, and a whole load more room with the seat up and pushed back. Whatever van you have of this size there will always be overspill to the outside when you’re camping with 4.

Oh, and I can also get 5 bikes and kit in the back of the beach 🙂 and mine cost less than £35k as a fully loaded dealer ex demo with 12 miles on it.

id say try it again before making a choice now you’ve experienced it. Best thing I ever bought.

My parents viewed one of the Elddis Accordo 120 recently as they’ll both be retired soon and want to explore at their own pace,head off to Greece etc. Seems pretty good vfm and there is a lot more useable space compared to the VW Califiorna which is more of a weekend away for 2 type of thing.

Needless to say I’ll be borrowing it at every opportunity

Thought the same, ending up converting a Trafic SWB, and bought a driveaway awning for extended adventures. Saved a lot, don’t feel I lost much, apart from some badge envy (mine).

They’re all a compromise was what I came to realise; trade off space against manouverability against money.

We’ve had to bite the bullet and sell our t5 this year as we were struggling for space with just 2 adults and a 4yo. It’s ok as long as the weather is good and you can use the outside space, but it’s hard to rely on that in the UK.

We’ve gone for a 4 berth coach-built now, loads more space means its far more weatherproof as a practical space, it has a garage so the good bikes can go inside out of view, beds can be left made up so it’s easy to just rock up at a site and be done. And they’re relatively cheap compared to the VW’s.

I thought the California came with a wind out awning as standard.
Have a look at some of the other offerings out there if you want to go down the VW route.
There is a half hour comparison between various T5s on YouTube , I guess most of them now do T6 models

Its only an issue if you park that way round……if it was such an issue you would just turn the car round and park the other way…..

love that. It’s classic VW ownerbabblebullsit. The door being on the wrong side and a total pain in the arse and badlythought out is only a problem if you don’t cross the carriageway and park on the other side of the road.

Made me laugh.

The Calif really shouldn’t have got Type approval for the UK, based on where the sliding door is. Laughable.

Anyway OP. Yes the Caliphs are too small to be much use with kids. The LWB is significanly better. But it’s still a huge compromise between what it’s like to drive and what it’s like when you’re stationary.

I have a Cali Beach as a daily driver and weekend van (3 kids). We have had a week in it with an awning when we had two kids but would only wild camp as two for which its ace. 10k cheaper, good residuals and a load of fun.

Sliding door on one side no issue as you can walk out the passenger door if scary.

have only ever been on three campsite with our van and that was because we needed fresh water and a decent shower…..

camping generlly looks like this:
not a single bugger in sight
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M82gqv]DSC_0336[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/LaHsEQ]DSC_0335[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

and the interior layout is like this (old photos from when it was installed)….. bikes and/or snowboards can be stored inside, too.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/LZRQUn]DSC_0622[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

storeage repeated on both sides as well as two large drawers.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M81ytv]DSC_0623[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

cooker/sink… can choose to either stand outside and cook or if the weather is pants i can cook inside…
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M81z7p]DSC_0624[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

fridge….
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M81xMk]DSC_0630[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

boards can be moved separately to create a “L” shaped seating…. either front or rear board depending on the weather/cooking.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/LaTT2K]DSC_0625[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

bed… (GF is sewing the matress.)
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M4Xmzq]DSC_0626[/url] by sod_the_taxman, on Flickr

all up it has cost me around 7K so far inc. roof. still have the plumbing to fit and a drawer front.
the idea is to build a storage pod that can be installed when the 2nd row of seats are removed.
(still have the single seat, but rarely do i carry more than four people).

As a family of 5 we used to go away on a Fiat Amigo for a week with a driveway awning. T5’s have acres of space. 😉
Edit: one of these. And the awning was so small, my brother and I had our legs under the van when we slept.

Thanks all.

Alpin, plenty food for thought, there. Suspect I need to really buy a van a live with it to really understand what I want/need.

Maybe I get a Beach and awning to figure out what I want from a LWB, or get a proper motorhome and keep a car too. Plenty to think about including, crucially, whether I ever want to go back on a campsite. If the answer is no then I need a toilet and shower on board for a few days away.

Again though, The acalifornia looks good on the drive. Really good.

That could be the point, Matt: our two boys had an awesome time and want to buy the Cali.

If the hassle of using a Cali didn’t kill me, they’d have some brilliant memories!

Thanks for this even though the outcome was less than you hoped for.. I am in exactly the same place and have a T6 Cali booked for a long weekend shortly for a test drive before potentially buying one. There would be myself the Mrs and a 4 year old so similar requirements and expectations. I’m guessing our experience may be similar to yours but let’s wait and see. Out of curiosity who makes/builds good smallish campervans? Are they all similar or does one company do it better than others?

Thanks

I need a toilet and shower on board for a few days away.

no, no you don’t….. have you ever had to empty/smell a chemical toilet being emptied? it is not for the feint hearted!

KISS….

I have a Cali and have done for years. It’s good but not perfect but then again it fits in my garage, doubles as a bike van and is really handy. We swither with selling it all the time. There’s 3 of us. It’s a very small campervan, some hate on this thread for it which is interesting. Strangely we’ve no issues with storage at all, internal topper means it’s bone dry upstairs all the time and you def need seat covers and a topper for downstairs. It’s a bizarre choice of internal colour but new ones you can have black. Expensive for what it is but having examined most conversions to me it’s still a solid van. We have awning sides and also a drive away for long holidays. Saying that we reckon it’s a good 3 night van with a 4 year old and long hols need to be somewhere solid just now so we all get a break.

I’ve just spent the weekend at a place with composting toilets. Those things are not designed for the gentleman to stand while making the bladder gladder. I have seen things that cannot be unseen

See, I thought a shovel was adequate, but last night at 3am in the rain, if the little fella had told me he wanted a poo and we were wild camping I’d be questioning my choice. Side awning off a Beach though, and a chemical toilet kept in a roof box for emergencies might do it.

Let me know how you get on, Juan. I think with three people you might get away with it. Plan on having yours and especially your child’s night sleep wear ready in the pull down storage above the rear seats ahead of travelling (and using the top bed to get the 4 year old ready). That, and spending £30 upwards on a gas BBQ to cook under the wind-out awning (if it has one), will solve half the problems.

The top bed is pretty cold even with the heater running, I reckon you’ll want a two season, rather than one season, bag. In case you’re thinking about it, we were, I wouldn’t put a 4 year old up there at this time of year with a quilt rather than bag, because it’ll be freezing when they kick it off.

I still think on hindsight, similar to Squealer and Scuttler, I’d be as happy with Beach and an awning without bitching about value for money. Suspect happier still with a LWB.

Well the camping pics sum up a van of that size, it’s a way to get you there and have what you need but plan to be living outdoors. As a van they are on the small size (narrow for a start) so once you start putting stuff in they get tighter.

Given the amount you are wanting to spend why not go for something a decent size
http://www.convertyourvan.co.uk/largevanprices.html
http://www.build-a-camper.co.uk/infopage.aspx?aid=18

Just back from a 3 week tour of the Alps mix of 2/3 days wild camping then 4/5 on a campsite and we think we have nailed the art of camping in a van. side awning for the wild camping so it keeps the seats/gear dry.
We purchase an Vango Airbeam awning for the longer stays and it goes up in no more than 10 minutes class bit of kit but pricy.
T5/6 haterz will always hate for some strange reason.
Looking at getting a tow bar fitted so we can have a storage rack below the bike rack to store the inflatable kayak and awning as would not like to store them in the van wet!
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M54gWW]Untitled[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/LZYnEZ]Untitled[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr
[url=https://flic.kr/p/M54HKj]Untitled[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr