And was it called “Direct Democracy”, did it also have a sequel called “The Plan”?

If so, why is he Minister for Health or whatever his job title is?

No

You’re thinking of Douglas Carswell – available in full here:
http://www.douglascarswell.com/downloads/upload12.pdf

the sequel was Hannan and Carswell, ‘the plan’ which also didn’t call for the dismantling of the NHS, it did however point to a number of international models (Not the American one) where lessons could be learned about improving yet retaining our current free at the point of use health service.

You’d probably best tell Amazon to change their description of the book then ninfan….

Should probably tell Andy Burnham that he was writing to the wrong person when he sent this letter: https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1-5w6_ur48SRAkUrtgRJX0d4egHa2-sNJ4P3uNgOp9lQ

thats not amazons description

Is reading and comprehension really that much of a challenge for you?

thats not amazons description

Did I say it was?

Is reading and comprehension really that much of a challenge for you?

LOL

Did I say it was?

only in the bit above where you said

You’d probably best tell Amazon to change their description

Here’s a link to the full book. https://whatwouldvirchowdo.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/direct_democracy___an_agenda_for_a_new_model_party.pdf

Check out page 100.

What you actually mean then is that he is one of 22 contributing authors (and you don’t know what words he contributed) to a book (well, pamphlet really) that doesn’t call for the NHS to be dismantled?

Well, you certainly nailed that one…

for what its worth I am a named contributing author in at least two published books (that you can buy in real life bookshops) – but I wouldn’t for one second claim to have ‘written a book’

You are coming across as being a wee bit defensive ninfan. Are you worried about something?

Did you know that there is an ongoing consultation on a mandate for NHS England? It’s been kept a bit quiet that one.

It’s been kept a bit quiet that one.

Yeah, completely silent:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/setting-the-mandate-to-nhs-england-for-2016-to-2017

Has there been anything in the media about it?

Ah, thats the governments fault is it? Because the government control the media of course?

It seems you’re really straining yourself to find something to be outraged at Wanmankylung

Governments publish consultations all the time – the media seldom pick up on them, just a couple of months ago the Welsh Government published one on increasing access to the countryside, a few of us got together and bent over backwards to publicise it, to the point where cyclists became the biggest responders to the whole thing (to the amazement of the WG and DEFRA we’ve heard) – should I put that down to media bias as well?

Our health service is unique is that necessarily a good thing ? I don’t see a long queue of Germans, Swiss, Belgians, Dutch, French or Americans demanding their health services are transformed into one matching our own. Some legitimate and constructive critism and alternatives should be debated rather than the hysteria of “they are privatising the NHS”

Face facts the UK population want the NHS as it is and only a tiny minority, of even the most dedicated right wing, never mind the population, want to have this debate

What they want is it to be funded and protected as is.

There is no debate to be had really as no one really wants change.
Calling them hysterical is unlikely to convince them of the merits of your case as it sounds a bit disrespectful as a starting point.

I note you are still ding appeal to authorities …can i ask why you keep doing them – what do you really think you gain by constantly making fallacious arguments?

Some legitimate and constructive critism and alternatives should be debated rather than the hysteria of “they are privatising the NHS”

The trouble is that there is no open debate about it.

If they think they have a good case for privatising the NHS then they should have the courage to step forward and make it.

But they know they would currently lose that argument as the public is so strongly against it. So instead the tactic appears to be (in my eyes) to de-stabilise, discredit and demoralise the current NHS, shaking public confidence whilst gently introducing privatisation through the backdoor.

Till that great day when we all get to enjoy hospitals where they ask for your credit card details before your symptoms and 999 is a premium rate number.

I note you are still ding appeal to authorities …can i ask why you keep doing them – what do you really think you gain by constantly making fallacious arguments?

Quite right, best to stick with argumentum ad populum. 😉

Face facts the UK population want the NHS as it is and only a tiny minority, of even the most dedicated right wing, never mind the population, want to have this debate

Did wanmankylung start a thread asking a question to which he already “knew” the answer and STILL get it wrong ?

Did he then rely on a letter from Andy “spins with the wind” Burnham ? Did wanmankylung also give the changed position Andy was almost certainly pushing 2 days later ?

Does wanmankylung have a financial advantage in keeping pay and conditions high in the NHS and avoiding a Race To The Most Cost Effective ?

I am not quite there as I never said it was right i just said its what they think 😉

wanmankylung youve created some sort of right wing troll magnet!!!

Jeremy Hunt is just a PR yesman, devoid of any original thought, he will do what ever dirty job cameron asks of him (shafting junior doctors, being a stooge for the Murdochs)

Carswell is a kipper, ’nuff said

Hannan is a rent mouth the US healthcare industry hired to come and slag off the NHS while Obama was trying to set up his healthcare plan

People have been saying since at least 1987 that the NHS will be closed if the Blue Party get power. It never has. Crying Wolf.

wanmankylung youve created some sort of right wing troll magnet!!!

No, he has posted a load of old crap. Pointing out that it needs to be flushed is not trolling.

People have been saying since at least 1987 that the NHS will be closed if the Blue Party get power. It never has.

So because it hasn’t happened it won’t. Interesting theory.

Carswell is a kipper, ’nuff said

Whereas the current Labour leadership are pro Europe? Really?

So because it hasn’t happened it won’t. Interesting theory.

When the same people have been lying on the same subject since 1987 then perhaps it is reasonable to be a smidgen suspicious when they tell you that the sky is falling in, again.

I am a named contributing author in at least two published books (that you can buy in real life bookshops) – but I wouldn’t for one second claim to have ‘written a book’

But presumably as a named author you would broadly agree with the arguments and recommendations made in those books, no?

Crying Wolf.

Isn’t the whole point of the “Crying Wolf” story that it does eventually happen and no one believes him?

No, he has posted a load of old crap. Pointing out that it needs to be flushed is not trolling.

On that note, can you provide some sources or figures for your assertions that “pay and conditions [are] high in the NHS” and that the NHS is not cost-effective when compared to the healthcare systems of other countries?

Ah, thats the governments fault is it? Because the government control the media of course?

You don’t think the government has a large hand in what the media reports? Do you think the issue would be reported differently if they had promoted it rather than sticking it on an obscure part of the website?

When the same people have been lying on the same subject since 1987 then perhaps it is reasonable to be a smidgen suspicious when they tell you that the sky is falling in, again.

One can see many examples of broken promises by the politicians as well so they also have a track record of lying so it would be unwise to take any politician on face value – I doubt anyone really wants to argue against that

Many folk will feel that the Tories are not ideologically wedded or tied to the NHS and feel that they keep moving it ever closer. When we have a health secretary who has been against the NHS then this alos raises suspicions

Its not a massive leap to see the Tories getting rid of the NHS and no other party faces this allegation so the fears are neither groundless nor proven.

So aye, anyway, how did the creature get his paws on the NHS?

So, aye, anyway…

Did wanmankylung start a thread asking a question to which he already “knew” the answer and STILL get it wrong ?

Did he then rely on a letter from Andy “spins with the wind” Burnham ? Did wanmankylung also give the changed position Andy was almost certainly pushing 2 days later ?

Does wanmankylung have a financial advantage in keeping pay and conditions high in the NHS and avoiding a Race To The Most Cost Effective ?

keeping pay and conditions high in the NHS and avoiding a Race To The Most Cost Effective ?

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk[/video]

Does wanmankylung have a financial advantage in keeping pay and conditions high in the NHS and avoiding a Race To The Most Cost Effective ?

Nope.

NHS pays physios from £11/hr upto around £35/hr. Private consultations start around £35. I dont work for the NHS.

Thank the moon and stars health is fully devolved in Wales.

😀

Well timed humour to lighten the mood

😉

So TZF is part of the evil private sector?

TZF is having a break from the NHS and making ends meet by doing other stuff.

Well 3td junior Dr in my lab announced he’s gonna leave the country when he finishes his PhD, his wife’s given him the go-ahead to apply in New Zealand
He doesn’t finish for 2 years which is fortunate as there are so many medics applying to get their certs to work abroad from the GMC that there’s a huge backlog in requests as the systems never been this busy b4.

Which is very bad news for things like A&E as it relies on Jr docs and of course that will never be privatised as its not money making, unlike profit making stuff like dermatology, elective joint replacements etc that the private sectors already cherry picked off (unless things go wrong when they dunnp any problem cases back on the NHS to try and fix/ pick up the bill)