As above really, there’s been a lot of negative stories about the Scottish service lately, and this issue would prob help the underlying probs we have (poor staffing levels, v high milage wagons, and poor morale).
If you could take a coupla minutes to read and sign this petition I’d really appreciate it. I know the chances of this getting ambulance services reclassified are probably low but I have to do what I can eh?
I’ve only been in the job three years so am not an old hand, but if you wanna ask me anything that might help you to decide to sign, feel free.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/3825

Thank you.
Ps, wrong forum. Sorry etc..

The gas, electricity and water boards have lunch breaks, yeah?

They’ll never do it, they’ll just privatise us until we are an irrelevent service and all forced onto bupacare vans or similar.

Though SAS does seem to be getting an unfare share of the media ambulance hatred!

I’m not sure it’s necessary. I’m not convinced it’ll make much difference and we could be worse of in other ways. Yes we’re Emergency Service that doesn’t come under Home Office but that’s because we’re a health service. Ok so we don’t get budgeting the Police and Fire get but we do have some good conditions. Just because the money comes from else where doesn’t mean we’ll get any more. If you’re not happy about vehicle situations and the likes you need to speak to you’re management and staff reprensentarives to get things changed. Of course spending money on one thing means it’ll have be taken from elsewhere.

The press love to have a go at various services, we some times have our turn.

Druidh, yep, they do, and as impotant as getting a boiler repaired properly is, im guessing british gas engineers dont work 11.5 hours a day 7 days in a row??
Drac, my stations newest wagon is a 60 plate admittedly, but it’s got 25 k on it already and has had to go back to ford twice already for major repairs. All the rest are about 5 or 6 years old with a coupla 03s.. All the rest are approaching 200 k.. Trust me, it’s been mentioned to management and mostly in response we get shrugs.
In the main though, it would sort out the current break issue, which I can see dragging on for a fair while yet.. If they just paid us for a full 40 hours like other emg services rather than the 37.5 this wouldnt be such an issue..

Ps, meejha, I know that, but at least it might help folk realise why we’re het up about losing our breaks. ESP since I read we can be disturbed more than once a shift but will only get one disturbance payment a day!

Playing devil’s advocate here but why should you get paid for more disturbance? Emergency service work is just that…emergency. It’s unpredictable and necessary. It is part of the job…

Personally, I don’t think it sounds right that this is happening but I’m unsure what could improve the situation.

Dick, its mainly the fact that we’re not an emergency service that I’m trying to highlight. We used to be paid for a 40 hour week including breaks but when agenda for change came in our week was reduced to 37.5 hours. Mostly to fit in with a 12 hour day but also (I’m guessing) to also reduce wage costs.
As it stands just now we’re not technically at work when we’re on our break because we’re not being paid for it. I wholly accept the nature of the work and don’t want disturbance payments. It’s a sly way for the service to have us available during our breaks without actually paying us for them!

This will be brief as I’m on my iPhone.

The meal break situation has nothing to do with agenda for change as such that just highlighted the issue. The enforcing of the working time directive is what it’s about. As the law states 37.5 is the maximum allowed after that you’re paid overtime. Each service has they’re own directive on the payments as it was difficult to set a standard as services vary operationally and geographically too much.

The vehicles. Well SAS decided not to go with the rest of the Ambulance Trusts in the mass purchase deals of buying Sprinters so you have Fords. The Sprinters are proving to be pretty reliable since we started using them about 10 years ago I can honestly say breakdowns have been relatively rare. They happen daily yes but not on the scale they did with previous vehicles.

Now some willy waving. 25k miles is about 10 or 12 weeks for our station. We took delivery of a one in June with 57 miles on, it went away 3 weeks later with nearly 12k on. Granted it was over a busy period but it never once flickered or farted.

That seems like a lot? Where you based? I thought 25k was a healthy milage for what adds up to about 6 months on the road after breakdowns. We had a specific issue with our ford, apart from the lacklustre brakes I quite enjoy driving it. Whether it’ll be as good as the mercs or vws remains to be seen..
Breaks wise, I stick to my comments above about disturbance payments.. How do the police and fireys get past that issue then?
I am also on my iPhone.. Pita but much easier than sitting with my laptop with my wee boy on the couch beside me!

If they just paid us for a full 40 hours like other emg services

Paid for 42, work 48 here.

Signed. We need far less money in the military and a whole lot more in our healthcare and education system!

I’m based in Northumberland it’s over a 50 miles round trip to our nearest hospital but up to about 110 depending on the patient location. Add the travelling to the patient it soon mounts up. Ask you busier rural stations what they do it’ll be around the same.

Police get there holiday cancelled with pretty much immediate effect too, they’re a whole level above us. Talking to the ones around here they’ve had loads cancelled this year most of them recently.

The working time directive does state we’re exempt by the way comes under the Police, Fire, Offshore and armed forces but they do have to pay us to be available. It’s the payment part that means they have to come up with an offer. The current for us is £10 per break missed and for 12 hour workers it’s 2 breaks per day.

Bruneep I’m sure you’re not the only one. I use to work 42 hours a week for less money and no payment for working over that. Agenda for change means I now get paid for worker unsociable hours, Fire don’t, I get extra holidays and days in lieu plus is I finish late I now get paid at time and half for that.

We are classed as an Emergency Service just not under Home Office conditions. We could do with extra money though but what service doesn’t need extra money? Don’t think it’s any different for the Police and the Fire it’s not.

The gas, electricity and water boards have lunch breaks, yeah?

What’s your point druidh?

althepal

While I think it’s commendable that you are trying to do something to improve the service and conditions (i’ve heard some horrendous stories about SAS recently), IMO it is something that falls under the union remit at a national level. Unfortunately, they seem to be doing precious little about anything, particularly at a local level and I’m getting pretty pissed off at chucking away over £20 a month.

Woody we may finally find some info out about the report, soon.

Woody is right like I said, this you have to sort at a service level. Making us part of the Home Office will make no odds don’t believe the age old haters of the Fire Service get everything they don’t. They’re not busy lads though it must be said. 😆

Aye, always pluses and minuses.. Guessing bruneep might be going to jobs in a big red engine? Also guessing his rate of pay is significantly higher than mine to compensate. and I mean for folk that are relatively new to the job. Not folk that are twenty years in service and have salaries to match!
Yep, we do ok with unsocial and ot and the likes. A lot of the older lads are quite happy to tell me what it was like working 8 hours without a break then not being paid ot for being kept late. I’m not necessarily saying that afc was a bad thing, I’ve worked in the Nhs on and off for about 17 years so know it had to be done for various reasons.
The main thing I’m trying to highlight is that we’re not an emergency service and that we’re not paid for our breaks. Fed up with folk saying we should be going out during breaks like the other emergency services when they aren’t aware of all the issues involved!

Soon

That’s the first time I’ve heard a date!

The Meal break issue is just one area which needs addressed. I don’t think the general public have much idea how much pressure the ambulance service is under. The increase in calls is huge and going over 6 hours + without a break is not unusual, which means that if you don’t have a protected break, you are very likely to go 7 or 8 hours without a relaxation period and a proper meal. Think about that if you work 9-5! Add to this the fact that it is rare to finish on time, more often than not, you are looking at a 13 hour day.

Anyone who thinks that the meal break and conditions argument is ambulance workers trying to get more money, is sadly mistaken. It is a basic health and safety issue to ensure that workers can perform properly and reduce errors due to fatigue. I don’t know any of my colleagues on the front line who go home after a 12 hour shift anything other than knackered.

The main thing I’m trying to highlight is that we’re not an emergency service and that we’re not paid for our breaks. Fed up with folk saying we should be going out during breaks like the other emergency services when they aren’t aware of all the issues involved!

You’re right of course but that petition will make no odds to that. To add I believe the public right too we should be going out but they have to offer some sort of payment for that betweem the Unions and Management they’ve never come sorted. Some offers were made and staff never got a chance to make a vote they were turned down and now we’re stuck in the rut.

Guessing bruneep might be going to jobs in a big red engine? Also guessing his rate of pay is significantly higher than mine to compensate. and I mean for folk that are relatively new to the job. Not folk that are twenty years in service and have salaries to matc

The pay variation is not anywhere near what it was, they were once were paid more than us but our pay review corrected that. The only thing I’d really like would be the Home Office Pension, well the old one, but even if we did become Home Office we’d not get that.

That’s the first time I’ve heard a date!

Uh Oh! Ah well. Errmmmm! Don’t spread it around too much this is a meeting for TLs to find out. And not sure what Divisions.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

I don’t see what you are trying to achieve here.

As for the 37.5 hrs – nothing to do with the WTD – its about standardisation of working practices across the NHS from agenda for change. 37.5 is the standard NHS working week

I’ll keep it under my hat Drac.

Anyway, must get ready to go to work and with a bit of luck I might be home before 2300 🙂

There is still plenty of money in the pot that is put aside for paving Surrey’s bridleways. Please help yourself to that money.
Is there a what they waste our taxes on watchdog?

Hold on.. What report is this? Totally agree with woodys comments.
Tbh drac, yeah, I realise the petition isn’t ideal, but thought it was a good vehicle to try and inform a few about what’s goingnon, rather than just having a rant about it and largely being ignored apart from the folk giving me 2 out of 10 or something.
I’ve got quite a few friends in the other 999s and I know we’ve all got good, bad, and shocking points about them as well as us. Nothing againt fireys, why, one of them even waved back at me on the way toa job last week!

Union wise, yep, agree. We’ve got a cracking rep in our station, just not too sure what’s going on at a national level. I also have zero confidence in my service when it comes to them looking after our needs.. There’s only onething they care about, possibly two if you add orcon into the mix!

Tj, fair nuff. I was tying the 37.5 thing into the fact we’re not paid for breaks and if our working week was increased to 40 hours the disturbance payment issue wouldn’t be a problem. But the fact it’s standardised across the Nhs means it’ll be difficult.
This seems to be opening up into a wee debate about a lot of things. Highlighting the petition here is my way of trying to stimulate a discussion about one particular issue that changing our status would effect. Just trying to highlight the issues we’re having at the mo mate.

Thats my understanding – you should have one paid 15 min break and one unpaid 30 min break in an 8 hr day with an extra 15 min paid break in a 12 (IIRC)

If you are unable to take your break or cannot leave the building then it must be all breaks paid. I worked in a situation where I was unable to leave the building during an unpaid break – so had all my breaks paid. On an unpaid break its your time to do as you want – go shopping, sleep, whatever.

What report is this?

It’s a local one not national.

As for the 37.5 hrs – nothing to do with the WTD – its about standardisation of working practices across the NHS from agenda for change. 37.5 is the standard NHS working week

No it’s the WTD too, we can work over the 37.5 but they’ve never found a way of doing this without costing them more than they want to pay. With highest respect TJ the Ambulance doesn’t quite work the same way as Hospitals which is why this problem arises.

I’ll keep it under my hat Drac.

Speak to you Rep they should be able to give you some info about a date.

Speak to you Rep they should be able to give you some info about a date.

😆 😆

No-one knows anything down here 🙄