Berm Bandit - have a look at the clip in the link I posted this morning from the Grauniad - link
It shows a TSG briefing before the event where the commander is saying that they are going to make Criminal Trespass a priority.
However, I wouldn't be surprised if the top bods were envisaging something different to what transpired, i.e. using that against more militant types than those they ended up arresting.
Your assumption that I would link shooting with kettling, or even that there IS a link, merely betrays what a complete plonker you are.
Well I think your priority of what is effective over what is morally acceptable, reinforces what I already knew about you 
... which is as close to zero as makes no difference.
Why would it ever make any difference ? !
Well I've bin to many demos in me time, and seen kettling employed on peaceful crowds, then witnessed it kicking off as a result. So proof, not that it were needed of course, that kettling isn't actually all that effective in prventing trouble.
See, you've learned something here Woppit. And I won't charge you for it. 
I am overwhelmed by your generosity Fred.
It's very effective at damping down rioting nitwits, though...
Which is nice.
It's not. As I've just explained.
That's genuine experience of such things, Woppit, not just politically biased accounts in't right-wing press.
It's very effective at damping down rioting nitwits
You have not a clue what kettling is Woppit. It is suppose to be a "preventive measure".
I have been kettled on several occasions, no rioting was taking place. And no arrests were made btw.
crankboy - Memberbravohotel8er where do you get your confidence from? Using the army in support of the civil power was very common in the 70's and 80's including sending the SAS in to prison riots. For the Miner's strike a number of welsh miners came to Yorkshire and found themselves opposite friends and relatives who they had last heard of as being in the army and now found in police uniforms.
Lots of ex-military used to join the police.
Move along son, there's nothing to see here.
"Lots of ex-military used to join the police." yep and during the strike a lot of current military put on police uniforms as an aid to the civil power.
Mr Woppit - MemberWrong question.
Is kettling effective?
Depends on whether you think it's a way of preventing trouble or a way of provoking it, really.
If it's the former, then it's sometimes effective, but IMO more often not. If it's the latter, then it's highly effective.
Course, that's the subject of a Heated Debate- personally I have no idea whether what I've seen were cases of a kettle used badly, and the violence was an unintended consequence, or whether that was the intention. I'm inclined to think it's generally the former, but I'm sure plenty of people would say the opposite. (I tend to go by Heinlein's Razor)
crankboy - Member
yep and during the strike a lot of current military put on police uniforms as an aid to the civil power.
No they didn't, you ridiculous nutter.
you ridiculous nutter.
You pride yourself on being a more sensible kind of nutter ?
More a nutter in denial, I'd say...
If they had not waited until Traf Square to use it, it would have saved a lot of people a lot of scrubbing work on the Sunday in Piccaddilly.
Would have been able to get a decent high tea at Fortnums too...
Mr Woppit - Member
Would have been able to get a decent high tea at Fortnums too...
Doubtless elfin and ernie will be along in a minute to remind you that 'proper tea is theft'.
Wouldn't that be a tad predictable?
bravohotel8er ta for the character assessment. what do you base your denial upon? The army have been deployed to back up or replace the fire brigade the prison service and mountain rescue why do you think it would be mad or indeed a conspiracy to believe they were deployed during the miners strike?
I base my view on a reasonably well researched book and the experiences of people who were involved on both sides.
bravohotel8er ta for the character assessment. what do you base your denial upon?
I've seen this sort of reasoned and level headed debating tactic from the brave hotelier before..
I reckon he's picked up a bit of shrapnel in WWII..
Doubtless elfin and ernie will be along in a minute to remind you that 'proper tea is theft'.
There's no need to cane a perfectly good joke.
Try to increase your repertoire 
ernie_lynch - MemberDoubtless elfin and ernie will be along in a minute to remind you that 'proper tea is theft'.
There's no need to cane a perfectly good joke.
Try to increase your repertoire
Sorry darjeeling.
TAXI!
OK that's better. I quite like that.......you've redeemed yourself slightly.
That just about takes the biscuit.
Mr Woppit - Member
That just about takes the biscuit.
I've had just about enough of your lipton.
*rings for another taxi*
Oh how typical that you two should be hobnobbing 
Unions and campaign groups voice support for UK Uncut
However, in taking the type of peaceful action which UK Uncut routinely undertake on Saturday, targeting Fortnum and Mason on this occasion, they were treated in a political and deceptive manner by the police which sends an ominous message about the right to protest.It would appear activists were misled by the police about not being arrested when asked to leave the Fortnum and Mason building, after which they were held for a significant length of time, their clothing was confiscated and they have been denied the right to protest in the near future.
This situation has now been seized on by the media and politicians to further threaten the right to protest. UK Uncut activists have been blamed for damage they did not cause and this story has become a substitute for discussion of the real issues raised by UK Uncut and the TUC march in general.
This does not represent a consistent approach to policing legitimate protest. Neither does it represent the sort of consistent approach to freedom of protest which the Government led us to believe they supported on entering office. We support the right to protest for a fairer and more equal world. As part of this, we condemn any politically motivated policing which provokes, intimidates or criminalises protestors. We will continue to support UK Uncut, alongside thousands of others, until tax justice is secured so the poorest do not have to pay the price of a financial crisis caused by the richest.
they were treated in a political and deceptive manner by the police which sends an ominous message about the right to protest.
.......claim the guys who used deceit to hijack a legitimate and lawful protest to make a political point which was ...... ????
However, in taking the type of peaceful action which UK Uncut routinely undertake
Peaceful action should not involve damaging property, surely?
claim the guys who used deceit to hijack a legitimate and lawful protest to make a political point which was ...... ????
You're not very good at noticing detail are you Berm Bandit ?
The link is titled "Unions and campaign groups voice support for UK Uncut"
"This is a letter from a number of NGOs and unions in support of UK Uncut".
UK Uncut has not "hijacked" anything. They have the full support of the unions which organised the march on Saturday. They are an important part of the struggle against the politically and ideologically motivated cuts. Their role is to carry the message by exposing the government's double standard, something which they do in an entertaining and light-hearted manner.
Peaceful action should not involve damaging property, surely?
No property was damaged by UK Uncut, a fact which the police don't dispute and readily agree with. Try to pay attention Flash.
crankboy - Memberwhy do you think it would be mad or indeed a conspiracy to believe they were deployed during the miners strike?
Because believing in things that didn't happen is generally (religion excepted) considered mad. It's not like there wasn't enough genuine madness during the miner's strike without having to make up more.
Because believing in things that didn't happen is generally (religion excepted) considered mad.
How do you know that this din't happen?
Were you there?
Nothing din't happen as there's no such thing as, din't happen
Elfinsafety - MemberWere you there?
Nope. And?
Reasons people think it happened:
"My mate's brother's son in law saw some coppers that looked a bit like soldiers"
Er, and that's it. You'll not find a single copper who says it happened, not a single squaddie, and damn few miners- and not one of them's got anything more convincing than that. It's a very weak urban myth.
You don't actually know it's not true though, do you?
You just don't like to contemplate the fact that it's perfectly possible such things might actually have happened.
If the army/navy/airforce had supplemented the police, a system known as Military Aid to Civil Authorities (MACA), they will not have worn the uniforms. Military rank is not directly transferable to any of the military services and there are numerous rules surrounding what things military people can do which may differ to civilian counterparts in the same circumstances.
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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