Installing a fireplace (no woodburner content)

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Installing a fireplace (no woodburner content)

33 posts & 14 voices | Started 5 months ago by alfabus | Latest reply from zokes

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alfabus - Member

My Edwardian terrace has been vandalised at some point in the past and had its fireplaces removed and plasterboarded over.

I'd like to put one back in the living room - hopefully an authentic(ish) cast iron tile insert jobbie.

I spoke to a few shops and they pressed upon me that any fireplace installation will need to be done by a HETAS engineer (even if I just wanted it for show and never lit it - for the record, I will probably burn stuff in it occasionally, but mostly it will be for show).

I've been looking on eBay to see if I can pick up a 2nd hand one (from some other vandal who is tearing one out!!) and there are a few out there that look suitable.

Can I DIY install it (I'm perfectly capable of the work - barring lining the chimney or anything serious like that, just not sure of the compliance regs)?
If I do, would I have to get it signed off (similar to Part P for spark work)? Would it be better to get a 'competent person' to do the install?

What knowledge does the great STW oracle have for me?

Cheers,
Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

first thing I'd do is unblock it and ask a chimney sweep to have a good look at whatever's behind it - they can probably give you an idea on what's required.

When we first lit the fire in the victorian house we had as our first home the bedrooms all filled with fumes so I'd be very careful to ensure that the lining is intact and air tight...

Posted 5 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

legally no idea practically i know someone who did this with both a wood burner and a gas fire for both fit and instalation.

Smoke tests is easy just do a smoke test !!
Check the chinmney has the currect top - either gas or open as required and follow the regs for gaps etc

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

I DIY installed mine, but it was replacing an existing fireplace. I think the rules are different if you're installing fresh vs replacing (I know you're replacing with a gap in time, so I don't know where you'd fit).

it was a fairly easy job, bought a new cast iron insert and a granite hearth/marble surround. got a man to sweep the chimney but otherwise good, if you're comfortable with cement you'll be fine. for what its worth, a lot of original edwardian fireplaces are plain nasty. mine all were so they all went, borded 3 up, replaced one.

oh, there's a lot of contredictory advice about how to install a fireplace, which makes it a bit of a pain. I find a mix of coal and wood gives a nice heat and look.

mine looked something like this, but without the art deco niceties.

Posted 5 months ago #
totalshell - Member

hetas ?? get a sweeo to brush it out,, chuck a smoke bomb up it( cadge one from any plumber/ gas man.. fit replacement fireplace nice hearth (2 inch thick) and bobs your warm toasty uncle..

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

cheers guys.

Bit more searching suggests that fireplace work is notifiable, so I'm supposed to tell building control, or get someone who can self-certify to do the work

like 5lab said, I'm not sure if I can get around this by saying that I'm replacing the one that was there before...

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

@5lab - my eyes!!!!

The ones in the houses in my street look more like this:

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
Junkyard - Member

how long have you lived there because mine was like this when I moved in and I know nothing about the instalation ....your honour

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

6 months - feasible that I could get away with it, but equally I'd rather not kill myself or get a hefty fine.

also to consider is that we're in a smokeless zone, so might have to use some funny fake fuel or do what everyone else does.... use whatever and don't mention it.

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
richc - Member

That fine Junkyard, however if you sell the house you have to disclose it (if you don't and then the buyers have an issue, they will/can sue to have it fixed/installed properly) and if you end up with a chimney fire your house insurance is invalid.

OK you save a bit of money, but you can cause some major headaches down the line when you come to sell your house.

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

I'm in a smokeless zone and the only stuff we can get round here is smokeless (other than the wood). i don't think anyone would notice anyway.

You don't have to declare if you just replaced an old one. I don't think anyone could ever tell. That said a mate of mine got his done (including labour and all the bits) for a grand, so not too bad

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

about a grand (including supplying the fireplace and surround) was what the shop in cheltenham quoted.

I've been looking at old ones on ebay for about 1-200 quid. Presuming it wouldn't be more than a couple of days work for someone, that would mean £3-400 labour. Might save me some dosh - or I could fit the hearth and fireplace myself and get someone in for half a day to check the chimney and make sure it is connected properly.

Anyone know a fireplace bloke near Cheltenham who would want the job?

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
IHN - Member

Bit more searching suggests that fireplace work is notifiable, so I'm supposed to tell building control, or get someone who can self-certify to do the work

Don't know how long that's been the case, I had one fitted about four years ago and have since sold the house, no-one asked anything.

Anyway, your in 'Nam aren't you? Mine was supplied and fitted by the fireplace shop on Gt Norwood Street, fella was really helpful too.

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

Anyway, your in 'Nam aren't you? Mine was supplied and fitted by the fireplace shop on Gt Norwood Street, fella was really helpful too.

yeah, that's who I spoke to.. He was really helpful, but rubbish at following things up. Said he'd give us some brochures (didn't), said he'd come round to measure and quote (did on 2nd attempt and was late).

If the major cost is going to be the installation, then I'll save the hassle of buying 2nd hand and just get the shop to do the lot!

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
IHN - Member

Dunno what you need doing, but my installation took a couple of hours, tops. Hearth put on floor, fireplace put on hearth and bolted to wall, back of fireplace filled with vermiculite (I might know someone with a load spare to get rid of actually after they fitted a fireplace), plasterwork made good around firplace, done.

Slightly different type of fire, mine was an all in one unit, not a separate mantel, surround, grate etc.

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

Dunno what you need doing
I guess the problem at the moment is that, until I take the wall apart - nor do I. It has been plasterboarded over (with a trickle vent) and carpetted up to the wall.

I suppose I should take the plunge and have a look see.

Maybe I'll wait until after Christmas though

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

i had to do more than that for mine, including opening up the opening, building up the level under the fireplace to level with the floor, then sliding in the insert, attaching with cement, then backfilling with vermiculite, then fitting the surround. all in all took a couple of weeks of small jobs, as often had to wait for things to settle.

don't forget that for part costs, you need to include an insert, a surround and a hearth. for new, my costs were approx £150, £50 (old stock) and £150 accordingly.

Posted 5 months ago #
richc - Member

Don't know how long that's been the case, I had one fitted about four years ago and have since sold the house, no-one asked anything.

It would have been asked on the conveyancing forms that the buyers solicitor sent you, if you chose not to disclosure the information and they have an issue in the future they can sue your for damages, and the cost of getting it to current building standards. Which wouldn't be too bad, as that would only be 5K or so, after the lawyers have had there pound of flesh..... However if they have a house fire and its linked to the fireplace, then you have a problem as the building insurance company will come after you, and all your assets to recover there losses.

Saying you didn't know/realise that you needed building consent/HETAs qualifications is no defence.

Personally I would spend the couple of hundred quid, and get someone with insurance to do it.

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

^^ have you got any evidence, at all, to back up the fact that if a house burns down years after its sold, there can be any comeback, at all, on the person who sold it?

Posted 5 months ago #
richc - Member

Ultimately, you lied to the buyer during the conveyancing process (which by ticking the 'I have made no alterations') and it can come back to bite you, as you have committed fraud under the fraud act (google 'failure to disclose') as you made an alteration to the building without complying to regulations, or disclosing it to the buyer. Didn't you read the paperwork the solicitors gave to you!?! or did you just sign blindly?

Hence the buyer, and/or the insurance company can chase you for losses, if something happens.

Main reason I know about this, is my missus is an insurance Lawyer who works for some of the big insurers and she has dealt with a couple of these cases in the last 5 years, where there is a house fire, fire investigators find undisclosed alteration, the insurers then investigate the claim, who then investigate the conveyancing lawyers, and if they have done there jobs correctly pass the question onto the sellers, who will be questioned over the alterations, if you lie at this point you *may* get away with it, or if you get caught you can add some more criminal convictions to your tally.

Ultimately 5lab, you have just admitted a criminal act on a mtb forum, so I would get this thread pulled if I were you, but looking on the bright side of things you saved yourself a couple of hundred quid when installing the fireplace

Posted 5 months ago #
ivnickkate - Member

Hi, from filled in opening to fireplace approx £400.

Cast surround - £100
Hearth for solid fuel [expands and contracts]made to order - £200
Fireback - Travis Perkins - £50
Grate, Firefront, and ashpan - £50
Mantlepiece - homemade using cherry wood from tree in mate's garden. free

Posted 5 months ago #
supersessions9-2 - Member

I have a reclaimed victorian hearth spare. Bought it to fit in my dining room, but on investigation found the original brick arch so haven't used it.

It's a proper original one, with original cheek tiles. It's missing the grate and a hood - both of which are easily found 2nd hand or repro.

Email me (in profile) if you want pics and price.

Posted 5 months ago #
alfabus - Member

ivnickkate - what did you do about installation? DIY on building notice or did you get someone to certify it? If the latter, did they let you do the work yourself and just come to sign off?

supersessions - ygm

Dave

Posted 5 months ago #
5lab - Member

Ultimately 5lab, you have just admitted a criminal act on a mtb forum, so I would get this thread pulled if I were you, but looking on the bright side of things you saved yourself a couple of hundred quid when installing the fireplace

sorry, what criminal act have I admitted? I replaced an existing fireplace with a new one. That isn't notifiable under building regs. can you clarify your statement?

Posted 5 months ago #
richc - Member

read up on the building regs, and then read up on conveyancing and failure to disclosure.

Just because you don't think you need to meet building regs, don't mean that that's the case. Just like just because you feel its OK, to lie on the conveyancing form doesn't mean that it won't come back to bite you.

OK, its only a small risk, however I am not sure I would bet my house on it to save a few hundred quid.

Posted 5 months ago #
trog - Member

alfabus

If I read your posting on the single track forum correctly you wanted a fireplace fitted. If that's still the case I will have a look at it for you. I am HETAS registered and fairly local to Cheltenham.

trog

Posted 4 months ago #
zokes - Member

How on earth do you come across a 2 week old thread out of the middle of nowhere, on a cycling forum you've never been on prior, when looking for business to fit a fireplace?

Bizarre...

Posted 4 months ago #
patentlywill - Member

'cos he's an insurance investigator?

Posted 4 months ago #
deadlydarcy - Member

How on earth do you come across a 2 week old thread out of the middle of nowhere, on a cycling forum you've never been on prior, when looking for business to fit a fireplace?

Bizarre...

Not really.

I've had emails from folk that somehow manage to find a thread that can be quite old when googling for timber floor fitting.

Posted 4 months ago #
Rockhopper - Member

I bought my fireplace and surround on Ebay, it was £100 then it cost £600 for my local specialist to supply a hearth and fit the whole lot including a chimney pot. I'd be a bit more careful about a chimeny thats on a party wall as you don't want to risk gassing your neighbours. You might need a flu liner just to be safe.

Posted 4 months ago #
trog - Member

Not really. Could be because I've been cycling for over 40 years with more bikes than you can shake a stick at and as a committed cyclist who occasional browses cycling forums I saw a fellow cyclist with a problem and as its my particular field of expertise I offered to help out. Nuff said old bean...
trog

Posted 4 months ago #
totalshell - Member

stumbled across this like trog ( although i did comment when it was fresh) my local scrap yard has a half a dozen cast fireplace inserts waiting for a buyer,

Posted 4 months ago #
zokes - Member

Fair enough - it just seemed slightly odd, especially given the recent threads from real spammers who've never posted before. But on-topic on a 2 week-old thread - good effort!

Posted 4 months ago #