Median incomes, ie 50% earn less and 50% earn more.
So if you're in the 65-69 category, 50% earn less than £12,600, 50% earn more (in that year - data is a year or so out of date).
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I agree with Nick
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Posted 5 months ago #
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Point being - this large number of 'rich' people getting unnecessary benefits are costing the state 100s of millions are a figment of right wing politicians minds....
Posted 5 months ago # -
Sowhat ever happened to that lib dem policy of positive and negative income tax? a proposal for a massive simplification of our tax and benefits system that does away with a lot of the issues we have?
Put very simply - everyone has an income entitlement - earn below that you get positive income tax to increase your income up to that level at 100%, earn above it you get negative income tax to decrease your income and redistribute wealth at a % less than 100%
Your income entitlement can be adjusted to take account of age and disability.
simplifies the system, reduces the poverty trap / high marginal tax rates and stops the stupid anomaly of people getting benefits while paying tax
Posted 5 months ago # -
"Sowhat ever happened to that lib dem policy of positive and negative income tax? a proposal for a massive simplification of our tax and benefits system that does away with a lot of the issues we have?"
It was just a smoke screen to get people (like me) to vote for them so they could turn into Tories when they got into government. They now follow the tried and tested economic policy of 'tax the poor to feed the rich'.
Posted 5 months ago # -
reduces the poverty trap
And therefore never going to happen under the Tories
and stops the stupid anomaly of people getting benefits while paying tax
Or 'subsidising your mates, with taxpayers money, who are getting away with paying
minimumsubsistence level wage' as its also knownPosted 5 months ago # -
BAck to the topic
Nopt bad idea
Everywher ei go muyy mum gets a discount despite being cash richer thna me.
Lets not forget there are some pretty well off pensioners these days due to gilt edges pensions etcShe gets her winter fuel allowance ..it helps her pay the site fees to keep her 40 k brand new motor home in portugal for a few of the months she is there over winter.
Posted 5 months ago # -
I keep seeing this "it would cost too much to means test" but I still don't really believe it. We are due Child Tax Credits but we've never claimed them as I don't agree that we need them. However, it would appear that things like Winter Fuel Credits are paid out regardless.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Worth a read. May help balance the books.
Posted 5 months ago # -
We had 11.58 million pensioners in 2008 (1).
It looks like it costs something like £33 per person per benefit claim to means test something (2).
So that's something like £382 million (11.58 million x £33) to means test a benefit across pensioners.
Given than half of all pensioners live on less than £13,600 (3) you are not going to be able to withdraw the benefit for a large proportion of the pensioners, so there just isn't a significant saving to be made overall.
This is why we don't means test TV license and bus passes - it just doesn't save money.
(1): http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/22/population.socialtrends
(2): "£47 Average annual cost of maintaining an existing claim for means tested Pension Credit, compared to £14 for an existing State
Pension claim" from NAO summary
(3): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_KingdomPosted 5 months ago # -
Could we not put them all in a great big home? Like a big cattle shed? To save on heating costs? And then as they keel over sideways they could have a on-site cremation used to heat said big shed?
Actually, as I'm typing that, I realise that by the time I retire, this may well be the case
Posted 5 months ago # -
Blimey, just watched that program with Nick Robinson about tax, sobering stuff. Thinking that maybe taking taxation and budget out of the hands of politicians may be a rather good idea
Posted 5 months ago # -
Means testing is massively expensive. That is one of the arguements behind the flat rate pension payments. It's cheaper to pay some people more that it is to work out a "fair" amount. It's even cheaper to pay some people less which is even more a danger.
Universal credit could go some way to solving this. It seems daft that there are benefits that are individually means tested. What should really happen is that it is all calculated at once and you receive one payment based on your result. Not a little bit from here and a little bit from there. Could solve a lot of these problem in one go. It'll cost a lot less to administer (Although the build cost will be high). It will also reduce the number of civil servants needed to administer it which is good or bad depending on whether you are one of them I suppose.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Means testing anything costs millions, so you can easily end up not saving anything at all.....
Very true. Y'know, the middle-classes love to bash the "handout culture" of the poor, don't they?
Comfortably off people don't need the government handouts they are "entitled" to claim. If they had the moral fortitude not to claim what they did not need, then means-testing and its associated costs would not be necessary.
Taking more than you need robs those in need; It's greed. It's a sick society, from top to bottom.
Posted 5 months ago # -
One of my in-laws' friends has joked that he'd miss his winter fuel allowance as it pays for a tank of fuel for his plane...
Posted 5 months ago # -
Regardless of whether they need it or not at least the money goes back into our economy.
Unlike this
The government has defended its decision to give £1bn in aid to India, despite the rapidly increasing wealth of the emerging economic giant.
A review of UK aid will maintain aid donations to India of £280m a year until 2015, while withdrawing assistance from countries such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Serbia and Moldova, the international development secretary, Andrew Mitchell, revealed.
The decision is likely to infuriate some Conservative MPs, who believe it is time to halt aid to India, which has economic growth of 8.5% a year, gives aid to Africa, spends £20bn a year on defence and has a £1.25bn space programme.
This has to be a bribe of some sort????
Posted 5 months ago # -
Sorry about earlier - going off on one. I'm tired.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Nice to know we're funding India's space programme!
Posted 5 months ago # -
footflaps - Member
We had 11.58 million pensioners in 2008 (1).
It looks like it costs something like £33 per person per benefit claim to means test something (2).
So that's something like £382 million (11.58 million x £33) to means test a benefit across pensioners.
Given than half of all pensioners live on less than £13,600 (3) you are not going to be able to withdraw the benefit for a large proportion of the pensioners, so there just isn't a significant saving to be made overall.
This is why we don't means test TV license and bus passes - it just doesn't save money.
Concise, well argued, easy to understand, and backed with solid numbers. Well played.
Posted 5 months ago # -
Isn't the bus pass thing rather self governing? Rich old people won't use a bus much (even if its free) cos its full of scrotes. Therefore the cost of giving them a bus pass is nothing.
Posted 5 months ago #
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