Mine are in grand shape for 77 and 75 respectively – better than their own parents were and better than I think they expected to be. I suspect they may both be getting telegrams from the Queen in time.

So there’s no real urgency that I can see, but it seems sensible to have a conversation with them to make sure we (my brother and I) are aware of their preferences so that when the time comes, we’re all in agreement about what care provision we find for them.

Anyone else done this and got any tips? I suspect it’s a conversation they know we should all have but they’re reluctant to. On that front it may be best to let them start it when they want to, rather than forcing the issue…

Sorry, can you move this to the right forum please!

In simple terms, things happen and then the need to talk becomes irrelevant as it’s the time to act… it’s a crap time, but it comes eventually. You then put things in place.

You’d still want to know what your parents preferences were though, especially if they’re no longer in a position to tell you themselves.

Think of it like the ‘where did I come from?’ question but at the other end of life;
Naturally, it’s awkward for all involved, but you need to know and you’ll all feel better once you do.

Mine have signed the paperwork that gives me and my sister power of attorney if ever they lose their marbles and can’t make decisions for themselves. Till then, they decide. I think they’d rather not worry about things that might happen to them if ever they lose the ability to worry.

The most important thing is to get their assets sorted with a solicitor so they don’t get kicked out of their own home if one of them dies or ends up in care and that someone worthy of trust (you I would imagine) is named to act in their best interests.

I’m sure they are aware of their age and the implications. Why not wait for them to broach the subject when they are ready?

It’s pretty easy with mine because they’re having a nightmare with my grandparents (all three in their 90s) now.

My Dad has done most of the admin and he’s found it really hard work because there’s so much paperwork to do and he’s had to do it under pressure now rather than have it in place already which he could have done had he realised.

For that reason, my sister and I already have lasting power of attorney over my parents now and they’re working to make sure everything that can be in place is.

That doesn’t really help the OP directly but maybe the sell is to make sure that if/when something happens that means a change in circumstances happens suddenly, there will be less stress for them to deal with as you’d be able to arrange things more easily and for them.

scotroutes – Member
Why not wait for them to broach the subject when they are ready?

Because something may happen to them which means they might not be in a position to be able to?

Both of them – simultaneously?

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-hhWUywXgU[/video]

car crash? happens..
Or if one goes rapidly downhill, the other may not be able to cope / think straight.

Power of attorney for the win, plus a heart to heart chat as to their preferences / feelings. Get it in writing – expression of wish – if necessary.

They do have wills, at least, I trust.

That’s not about old age though – it could happen any time. Should you start to make arrangements when you are 18?

scotroutes – Member

Both of them – simultaneously?
Father in law died just over a month ago.
Mother in law is really not coping well:
She’s 82, overwhelmed with grief, was married for 50 years, confused, virtually blind, recently diagnosed with cancer and showing signs of confusion and the possible onset of dementia.
She is currently in hospital , terrified and convinced that the hospital staff are going to kill her everytime she falls asleep.

It’s such a personal subject and a very hard thing to do.

But I’d speak to them now, just to be sure.

acknowledged. Don’t see a problem with having a will at 18 to be honest, we have POAs in place, been written for several years now – having seen the benefits on behalf of my dad when he was ill.

It depends on how well you know your parents’ and their wishes. If you do already, fine, though POA would help and a chat will merely clarify. Never got to that stage with my dad 🙁 With my mum, general chat about her wishes were sometimes surprising – and have changed in the last 5 years anyway..

Just talk. Then act (possibly).

I can’t help with the ‘how’ but it needs to be done.

My dad went barmy one day, like throwing a switch, and is now in a care home for the chronically bewildered. Sorting things out that were in his name, even what should be relatively simple like cancelling a TV subscription, were a bloody nightmare. You’d be absolutely stunned at what an arseache some companies / organisations can be, and you simply cannot assume that common sense, compassion or reasoning will come into play in any way whatsoever. The number of conversations we’ve had along the lines of “well, just get his signature…” in relation to a man who told us the other day that he had to go to the hospital because he needed two new tyres is just mind-blowing.

He’s in no mental state to grant power of attorney (and all other things aside, he’s a nouty bugger and as likely as not to tear up any forms we might ask him to sign) and taking rights is a lengthy and expensive procedure. Off the top of my head, it’s something like a couple of hundred quid to volunteer PoA to someone, and a couple of grand to try and take it.

I need to have the same conversation with my mum at some point, and even with what happened to my dad as motivation it’s not something I’m looking forward to.

I’ve just signed the documents to become my Mums Enduring Power of Attorney (along with my brother)

She prompted it herself because she has a friend going through the losing marbles and children trying to sort out everything. It’s upsetting but she see’s the need for this to be sorted out.

I would get an Enduring Power of Attorney in place as soon as possible while they are still sane enough to sign it. As reasonable people, I’m sure they will accept it is precautionary forward planning, done out of your love for them. People can go rapidly down hill.

As a child of ‘older’ parents (They were 42 and 50 when they had me) I had the misfortune to lose my dad when I was only 21 and my mum went rapidly downhill with dementia in just a year, blacking out and falling down the stairs, breaking both ankles, then getting back home after that only to set the house on fire by putting an electric kettle on an electric hob to make a cup of tea. I had to put her in a home for her own safety. Luckily I had a Power of Attorney in place after taking some good advice. Without that and once it’s too late for them to sign it themselves, it all becomes more difficult for everyone. It’s not a nice thing to have to do, let alone when you’re only 22. She has now been there for 15 years. 😯

There’s a lot of sense in getting things squared away well in advance of needing to. Just broach the subject with them, you’re doing it because you care, not because you’re trying to get rid.

My dad has Alzheimer’s and went from being a switched on engaging chap to a confused, frightened, stubborn and slightly aggressive shadow of his former self within a couple of years. While they’re sound of mind, and fit and healthy it’s the ideal time to talk about something so complicated and personal.

There’s lots you can do upfront to make life easier. Cleaning, gardening, shopping, cooking(meals on wheels/wiltshirefarmfoods etc)laundry, maintenance. If you or other family can’t get there regularly to help out, these are all things that are relatively simple and cheap to outsource and can make a big difference between coping at home and struggling.

I have Power of Attorney already, along with my Uncle. Been in place for years – they’re well prepared like that! I’m sure the Wills will be sorted to.
I know my Dad wants a Woodland burial but that’s all I know about their preferences which doesn’t seem like enough to know when it comes to making decisions – either with them or for them.
I suspect they know exactly what they want, I’ve just never asked them.
My Dad is stubborn as hell – family trait – so trying to deal with these kinds of decisions ‘in the moment’ likely to be harder than doing it now, whilst there’s no pressure and no urgency…
I’ve emailed my brother to get his thoughts too… we’re not the best family when it comes to openly discussing important emotional things and a ‘gently does it’ approach most likely to be the best

Even if you have Power of Attorney, lots of organisations have no process to deal with it and still want the person’s signature etc (this includes banks)!

the speed of decline is flabbergasting folks who were well active and able can become unable to manage for themselves in less tha 6 months and thats without strokes etc so id heartily reccomend a conversation an POA before rather than later.
as mentioned above dealing with companies service providers on behalf of someone is a PIA.. take house insurance for the MIL i select/ purchase with my money in her name insurance for her home. come renewal time the insurers refused point blank to even speak to me, no matter what lengths i went to including sending them statements in my name showing i paid for the stuff..

My parents sorted out power of attorney a few years back. A couple of years ago they moved nearer to us as I’m an only child and ultimately they will need me to do things for them. They moved in their mid70s while they could still organise it themselves, rather than wait for a crisis to force the issue.

That said, my dad controls all tbe finances and if anything happened I think we would struggle to trace all the information we would need in time.

We have also talked about end of life care and funeral arrangements. Not deliberately, but I know what they feel they would like to happen.

Interesting piece by Martyn Lewis a few months back saying he did a power of attorney to his wife when he wad 40 in case he ended up in a coma suddenly. Interesting listening.

totalshell – Member
the speed of decline is flabbergasting folks who were well active and able can become unable to manage for themselves in less tha 6 months…

My FiL switched off overnight into total dependence. It was horrible to watch the continued decline.

The cost of 24 hour care is also flabbergasting. He lived a further 5 years, and it cost a small fortune.

I really don’t know how people who do not have considerable resources can afford care unless the state provides it.

Think in terms of having to stump up £50,000 per full care adult per annum for around 5 years. Do your parents have that much cash? Can you afford it?

With the increasing privatisation of services previously provided by government, this is going to be a major financial thump for most of us, if we have anything left after caring for our parents….

I’d say talk to them as soon as you can and it’s appropriate.

Friends who have done this have seen parents downsize, move closer etc before they had to. My mum refused to do anything about it until she wasn’t fit enough to live in her 4 bedroom home, and had to go into care. Now she’s a flight away from all 4 of her children so sees less of us than if she’d moved closer to one of us…

Mine are 91 & 87 – pretty fit and capable at the moment but all paperwork is in place. I expected that it was going to be a really hard task to discuss this with them, but they were really grateful that I was concerned for them.

MrsCat & I are extending the house so if anything happens they are coming to us, her folks are 20 years younger than mine so they will come to use in their turn. It’s the only way to repay the completely unconditional love we had from them.

OP – I would suggest just sitting down with them and talking it through.

Depressing stuff. I remember as a kid watching my Mums Mum go rapidly downhill with Alzheimer’s and the incredible pain and emotions it bought up. I feel like it could be just a matter of time until that cycle repeats. 🙁

cynic-al – Member
…Now she’s a flight away from all 4 of her children so sees less of us than if she’d moved closer to one of us…

That’s a good point. One thing most people do not realise is that the moment you become gaga, friends and associates all evaporate within a few months. At the end of the day the only people who truly care are close family.

We tried to get my FiL to get a permanent visa for Australia where we lived. He wouldn’t do it, and insisted that when he got to a the state where he needed care, his friends and church (in Scotland) would rally round.

As a result, when he needed care, we couldn’t take him out to Oz, so we had to move to the UK to look after him. I suppose we could have simply stuck him in a home and visited once a year or so, but when someone in the family gets into that sort of state, they really need their family around them.

The move cost my wife her career – she had to requalify in Scotland, and it cost me my business, but worst of all was the huge costs involved, because that’s money that would otherwise have gone to the benefit of our children.

So I would suggest that the elephant in the room for most families, is sorting out what is going to happen when the parents need care, and to make sure that there’s enough financial reserves to provide the care.

And without a Power of Attorney and good financial reserves, it’s going to be really difficult.

definitely talk as early as you can – I’ve had a few light hearted chats with my folks (mainly me teasing them about putting them in a home as early as possible, or as late to save money) but for me this worked as a way to get talking seriously.

They’re only early 60’s though so hopefully a long way off from having to make a decision but as an only child I know it’s going to be my responsibility eventually (unless they kill each other first)

My mother is in her 70s now and I have no intention of ever having that conversation with her. If she eventually does require nursing care it will be because she has more needs that can be provided for by a 2 person 4 times/ day package of care. By that point she will either realise that she is not coping or wont have the capacity to make the decision. So in the mean time, I’m not going to upset her by planting the seed that at the first sign of trouble she’s off to a nursing home.

During the course of my job I have a few meetings each week where we discuss discharge routes for patients and more often than not nursing home care is what we recommend. Most families make the most logical decision, some want to pursue long term hospital care, a few want to go beyond that and get even more specialist care, none in my experience try to take it all on themselves to look after their family member without support. My advice would be to leave it for now.

are aware of their preferences so that when the time comes

So I assume by that you have talked to them about what they want to happen when they die?

Its better for all involved if you start conversations as soon as possible re signing houses over, Power of Attorney, Wills, what to do if 1 dies, what to do if both die. etc etc.

wanmankylung – Member

By that point she will either realise that she is not coping or wont have the capacity to make the decision.

Just because she won’t have the ability to make a decision then doesn’t mean that her views shouldn’t be taken into account now, surely?

Being an only child certainly brings it home to you. My wife went to college at 18 and has never had to think about parental care as her two brothers are there if ever required.

As an only child, I’ve always assumed that at some point I would be responsible for them, which MrsMC finds odd. She found it even more odd that once my folks have gone, the long term effects of her disability may mean she might be struggling to get around and need support, which had also never occurred to her.

I may never have more time to ride my bike than I have now; working full
time, studying part time and with two young kids. Jesus **** Christ 😥

So I assume by that you have talked to them about what they want to happen when they die?

Its better for all involved if you start conversations as soon as possible re signing houses over, Power of Attorney, Wills, what to do if 1 dies, what to do if both die. etc etc.

I mean when they get to the point of needing care, not when they die. I expect they’ll want to stay independent for as long as possible but at some point they’ll need day help and then in time prob need to move to sheltered housing or a full-time home.

They went through this with their own parents so I’m sure they’re aware of the options and will know what they’d like for themselves. As Rusty says, I want to make sure I support them in their own preferences

I’m going to say..

“Oi Grandma, lay off the Gin or you are going into one of those homes”

That’ll sort her out I reckon.

not read the thread but I sat them down and asked them
What do you want to do if this happens if this happens if this happens etc

Apparently they want to live with me unless they are a burden in which case live in a home.

Both of them – simultaneously?

It can happen to one and the other isn’t prepared for it, they become lost and in grief of having someone who isn’t the person they married anymore. See it all to often even had a chat with the spouse about what can be done for them then set the ball rolling to get care and support. Sometimes it’s to keep them at home and make life easier, sometimes it’s get respite care every a few weeks so they can both get a good rest or other times it’s to find them a home. You’d be surprised how much a traumatic illness or injury can effect more than just the person and how ill prepared we find ourselves.

Apparently they want to live with me unless they are a burden in which case live in a home.

So, have you chosen a home. 😀

Just because she won’t have the ability to make a decision then doesn’t mean that her views shouldn’t be taken into account now, surely?

It’s not just the ability to make a decision that is taken into account.

? Understand the information relevant to the decision, including the purpose
of any proposed course of action, the main benefits, risks and alternatives,
and the consequences of refusing to follow the proposed course of action
and of failing to make a decision.

? Retain that information for long enough to make a decision.

? Use or weigh that information as part of the process of making the
decision.

? Communicate his or her decision, whether by speech, sign language or
any other means.

The best interests of whoever it is that doesn’t have capacity are also taken into account which does include past and present wishes.

I’m aware of what capacity means.

I note you’ve not answered the question.
That is, of course, your prerogative.

A fall in the town can have a major effect on older peoples minds/mentality, taking away their mobility, their fear of not falling over they sometimes get agrophobia etc etc.Loss of a partner /freind is also a tough thing for them to cope with as it would be for us all.

Best to sit down and chat, ask them to make a will and write their wishes for future care down and all discuss it, wether it bes staying at home for as long as possible or when reasonably fit moving to sheltered housing warden controlled or even into a care home as a couple, if they want/expect you to look after them and you have a partner involve them as well look at how you could all live in same house, bathrooms toilets , possible stair lift or ramps.
Its a tough time, been there,tried my best, and been let down by the state and poor money grabbing care homes.

The earlier you discuss things the longer you have to put plans i place, because every day that time becomes shorter.