Can i make a suggestion? Can those who went on a skills course to solve this particular problem post up how to do it? It’ll save the OP a lot of money (cue lots of ‘best upgrade you can buy…blah blah blah..riding gods blah blah blah…’)

The point of a skills course, in fact, any kind of coaching whether for sport or other things, is that the mistakes people make and the reasons why they make them, are individual… and therefore a personalised solution is required. Being watched by an experienced coach is far more effective than a bunch of strangers on the internet telling you what worked for them.

IMO those of us raving about skills courses are doing it because a good one is really, really effective, and can transform your riding. For me, there’s no glory or fun in mincing down stuff I can do at speed and with style for the sake of a skills day and a bit of practice. Helped to stop me breaking bones too 🙂

the ‘attack position’, bent elbows, as per my previous post, and the jpeg that anotherposter linked are/were the biggest changer for me. I do find that I have to tell myself on most rides to get the weight forward and think of my arms as big springs to soak up holes under the front wheel.

It’s interesting as I’ve been drumming this into my kids and the 8 yr old cleared all of Cathkin yesterday for the first time (except the water splash climb) 🙂

The course I went on was all focused around the principle of centre of mass over the bb and your position neutral ie if you let go of the bars you would fall neither backwards nor forwards. Obviously there are occasions when you need to otherwise, but this is your base position. Join that with knees and elbows bent in attack position heels down etc.
Seems to have served me well over the years, I’ve not been thrown over the bars since the course.

I personally haven’t found the skills courses I’ve done quite so revelatory, just to provide a differing point of view. Not a waste of time, indeed quite a good use of money (a small fraction of what I spend on my bikes) but not really “transformative”. Maybe I’ll try another.

Some thoughts on the OPs question

1. This is a bit of a boring video but it did get me thinking about position on the bike (but not training in a gym as the presenter recommends!):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJAgNNbmNLg

2. Go riding your hardtail on local trails in lots of filthy winter mud. Put a good mud tyre on the front (maxxis beaver) and keep something more normal on the back. Should teach you to get your weight forward as you will get instant feedback when it isn’t, i.e. you will slide out of every corner 😀

thx all for the good tips, plenty here to work on.

“get low not back” feels like 4 valuable words, a good place to start.

nobody need worry that I don’t enjoy my riding

lol @ sideshow’s no 2, creative.

Repetition.
Retraining yourself by picking an easy gentle slope that feels safe. Riding and re-riding it, modifying position to find one that keeps front wheel traction without the risk of tipping over the bars.
If you’re feeling heroic find out how far back or forward you can get before you lose the bike whilst there’s nothing nasty to land on

whitestone – Member

I sort of hinted at it with my skiing analogy: but think of the bike pivoting around you whilst you try to keep your CofG above the bottom bracket – think of a plumbline dropping from just behind your belly button going through the BB. So on a descent, as the front wheel becomes lower you move back slightly to compensate and keep the plumbline through the BB. Obviously at some point the slope will become steep enough that you will be behind the saddle but that would be pretty steep.

I like this. I also liked, I think it was maybe Andy Weir at Ridelines, who suggested imagining the bike hanging under you on strings rather than you being plonked on top, we tend to describe ourselves as moving around on the bike but for this I think it’s maybe better to think about moving the bike. It’s essentially the same thing o’course but in my head at least feels more mobile.

The trouble is, everyone visualises and interprets things differently, what works for one person won’t necessarily make any sense for the next. This is one of the things that makes a good coach/trainer good, they’re not just parroting lines, they’re both working on the problem and working on how to get you to understand it and what to do.

The course I went on was all focused around the principle of centre of mass over the bb and your position neutral ie if you let go of the bars you would fall neither backwards nor forwards. Obviously there are occasions when you need to otherwise, but this is your base position. Join that with knees and elbows bent in attack position heels down etc.

Thats very interesting, just from that one paragraph, I know that you must have gone to a different skills coach to me, yet we live in a similar area.

I am not saying either is wrong, just different approaches to teaching I guess, and I bet both have similar outcomes.

Mudguard with a design flaw

Thats very interesting, just from that one paragraph, I know that you must have gone to a different skills coach to me, yet we live in a similar area.

It’s probably more likely me not explaining it very well. The plumb line thru your bb analogy above is probably a better description of the same thing I was getting at.

Change your saddle

…if you let go of the bars you would fall neither backwards nor forwards

‘Heavy feet, light hands’

I found these videos very useful (parts two and three are probably most relevant to the question – bear with it):

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3QWGy2EwAw[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap0rjisRWEM[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48O–5pF4pY[/video]

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyrpt01xgaQ[/video]

(Fabien Barell’s videos, also)

I’m glad someone has said heavy feet, light hands… while in a neutral descending position, you should feel as though you could let go of the bars and wouldn’t fall backwards. Most of your weight will be through your pedals ergo bottom bracket.

I’m glad someone has said heavy feet, light hands… while in a neutral descending position, you should feel as though you could let go of the bars and wouldn’t fall backwards. Most of your weight will be through your pedals ergo bottom bracket.

In fact, think about your heels too. If you can’t drop them then you are probably too far back.

Yesterday I could feel the rear tyre buzzing my ass on a popular cheeky trail in the Peaks.
So Im doing it wrong then?

hora
So Im doing it wrong then?

I think that’s pretty much a given don’t you?? 😆

Well I went on a skills course and one of the take-home lessons I learned was to get my weight back when it gets steep. Clearly there is a difference between getting your weight back a few inches as is necessary and hanging it all the way out there so your Nobby Nick is parting your butt cheeks. Practice will get you understanding how far to put your weight back for a given gradient/feature. In anycase you’re better off having your weight too far back than not far enough, a guy who’s been joining us for the last couple of rides, a roadie having a go at mountain biking, went over the bars this weekend and bust his collar bone – he now wishes he’d got his backside further back. He did refuse to lower his saddle as we advised when we were coming upto the steep stuff, but he didn’t seem to want to move his saddle for some reason.

wobbliscott – Member

In anycase you’re better off having your weight too far back than not far enough

Mmm. But having your weight too far back reduces grip on the front wheel and can also cause crashes.

@wobbliscott

The overriding consideration when road cycling is efficiency so getting the saddle height correct for maximum power is of prime importance. A mate who’s a roadie and now does a bit of mountain biking recently fitted a dropper post as he’d come to a steep bit where his mates had promptly put their droppers down and he’d struggled. His comment was “Why? …. Oh f***ing hell!” and at the bottom “I need to get me one of those”

I liked the mcCormic book as well and reckon it’s worth a read..got some good pointers in it.

droppers are absolutely fing fabulous 🙂

I am moider for this also, have suffered a couple of heavy crashes due to losing the front end because of this.

Surely Lasercock™ is the ONLY riding tip for all ills 😉

(actually, might work, since you probably can’t successfully point your nob if you’re right back)

hora – Member
Yesterday I could feel the rear tyre buzzing my ass on a popular cheeky trail in the Peaks.
So Im doing it wrong then?
POSTED 32 MINUTES AGO #

Not necessarily, google images will bring up plenty of photos of the worlds best DH riders hanging so far off the bike they’re almost touching the tyre with their shorts…as always it depends on how steep the descent is.

First time I rode at Rogate-DH I experienced loads of front end wash outs, being new to gravity type riding I assumed it was tyres so spend loads chopping and changing in an effort to find one that would bite into the ground there….it never worked and it was only when I became more confident and read up on DH techniques that I was able to move my weight from hanging off the back in a terrified novice manner to being lower but more central on the bike….hey presto the front tyre suddenly had grip where previously it had none and my lesson was learned.

There are courses with sections where you will need to drag your arse on the rear tyre, I just haven’t control across any yet in my relatively short and recent obsession with gravity orientated riding.

I’m not sure lasercock has any application here. Or darcy turenne’s t’n’a for that matter.

This is a good example of what a lot of people on this thread are talking about. still a pretty perfect plumb line down his centre of mass thru the bb, despite a steep slab and saddle in the way.

Perfect B.A. Nana!

so it seems that ‘get low not back’ and the head down attack position work quite well.

who’d have thought?