I am fully cognizant of the ethical problems posed by horse racing, and am not really asking for people’s opinions condemning it here. In light of a discussion I have been having with my mother after today’s Grand National today (in which 2 horses died by broken necks/backs), though, I am really wondering what the horse owners/trainers/punters and other interested parties say to defend themselves and/or make themselves feel better when such horrible things happen.

Of course I am sure that many are just in it for the money, but I also KNOW that many of those involved must care about the animals, and it is these people I am talking about.

Thoughts please…

I’d be fairly certain that an Owner/Trainer wouldn’t send out a horse with the intention of killing it. Sadly I suspect its put down to “one of those things”
Horses die one the flat, on the jumps its just the Grand National has such a big audience it seems worse than it is.

Is the Human Parallel the Isle of Man TT? Several riders Die each year yet it continues year in, year out.

The horse has no choice unlike the human.

Never like it.

🙄

Is the Human Parallel the Isle of Man TT? Several riders Die each year yet it continues year in, year out

No. As Chewkw says the human knows the risk and accepts it, and takes the rewards if it goes right as well as paying the penalty if it goes wrong. The horse has no understanding of the risks, no right to refuse and just pays the penalty.

am not really asking for people’s opinions

Thoughts please…

Are you after some help in making your mind up?

the human knows the risk and accepts it, and takes the rewards if it goes right as well as paying the penalty if it goes wrong. The horse has no understanding of the risks, no right to refuse and just pays the penalty

You imply the horse gets no reward – don’t they get to shag lots after they stop racing if they’re good?

Suppose it depends on how you look at it.

I reckon more horses die in the hands of recreational riders.

It’s bred for racing. Some horses are bred for working. It all carries dangers to the horse, which the horse has no choice in.

It’s accidental harm though (although in the case of the national, it’s getting closer to being unreasonable IMO).

As an avid racing fan for many years, I do think that the national is a waste of time and unnecessarily difficult in order to satisfy a group of people who only watch racing once a year and know nothing about it. It’s all about the cash though, it must generate a fortune.

It’s bred for racing. Some horses are bred for working

Could equally apply to second-generation slaves.

Could equally apply to second-generation slaves.

Aye, the point i’m making is that no one seems to have any issues with horses being used for work or ridden recreationally.

It’s just the perceived higher risk attached to racing, and the fact that it’s pure cash driven, that makes some people uncomfortable.

Personally, I like to see a well trained race horse charging around all week, rather than a horse owned by a snotty kid and left to wander around a field until the brat wants to canter around on a saturday morning.

Could equally apply to second-generation slaves.

Are you suggesting that all horses should be freed ?

Chewkw,

Are you against all horse racing or just the National?

I’m no fan myself, but having been around both the National and the TT for more years than I care to mention, the justification always seems to be “on of those things”
That’s the parallel i was trying to draw with the TT. It has quite a high attrition rate yet is allowed to continue almost unchallenged.
I say again an owner/Trainer wouldn’t send a horse out to intentionally die on the course but it happens. A team manager will send out his bike rider knowing that there is a very slim chance he may have a fatal accident, but that’s what it is, an accident

New forest ponies look fairly content. Not truely free but not raced/worked/sat-on.

Are you suggesting that all horses should be freed ?

We should give them the vote too while we’re at it.

Aye or Neigh?

Incidentally, although my own experience on a horse is pretty limited to recreational riding, my gf’s father was heavily involved in training horses when he was younger (now a retired software developer, some job transition!), and he always says that if a horse doesn’t want to run/jump, it won’t run/jump!

So i suppose the horse does have a choice to some extent. I love watching people at amateur jump days, just as the horse comes to the first fence and decides it doesn’t want to jump, throwing the rider over on his own 🙂

New forest ponies look fairly content

That’s because no one’s told them that many will end up as horse meat.

BTW, two New Forest ponies are killed by cars every week.

I was pondering the GN and horse racing in general earlier too. I wondered how integral gambling is to the sport. On the surface it seems horse racing is pointless without betting – you’d not get millions watching the national without the chance to put your once yearly bet on. Or maybe you would… I can’t think of another sport which is so linked to betting (at least not in a UK context).

For those who follow racing on a weekly basis, would it have the same pull for racing fans without gambling?

For those who follow racing on a weekly basis, would it have the same pull for racing fans without gambling?

The only people in the industry who make money directly from gambling are the bookies (a much smaller amount is made by the course owners by way of pitch rental charges).

However, they sponsor races and top up prize funds, making it more attractive and profitable to the horse owners.

As for punters. The flat season tends to attract a huge number of “gamblers”. However, with the advent of BF and online bookies, there isn’t really a need to be anywhere near a track any more. So those who are tend to like the day out, or are generally interested in racing.

The jumps season tends to attract more people interesting in horses/racing than gambling (mainly because you have to brave the winter weather! 😉 .

But yeah, gambling is a MASSIVE part overall of the sport. Definitely integral. Racing would never be the same without it. Unless you own a share in the horse, it’s extremely difficult to stand watching it run round a field in the rain!

Aye or Neigh?

Hay or Neigh, surely?

BTW, two New Forest ponies are killed by cars every week.

And hundreds of Dartmoor ponies are culled every year because of over breeding.

Interesting BBC Radio programme about this a couple of weeks ago, available here.

As has been said before, has a horse ever said, “Here, I’m up for a race … count me in.”

I think not.

Just an excuse for trainers et al to make money out of something they ‘love’.

As has been said before, has a horse ever said, “Here, I’m up for a race … count me in.

Horses can’t speak.

If they don’t want to run, they won’t run. It’s not like they are electrocuted if they fail to comply.

They run, it’s what they do.

Just an excuse for trainers et al to make money out of something they ‘love’.

I doubt you’ve ever met a trainer in your life. Most are paid bugger all and are not making millions gambling money they don’t have.

Horses can’t speak.

That is of course unless the horse is the famous Mr Ed

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU[/video]

most of us are responsible for worse treatment of animals than occurs in horse-racing.

it was vaguely warm and sunny yesterday, i’m sure a few barbecues were lit, and more meat was eaten than was strictly necessary.

2 horses die in a race for our entertainment: we ask a few ethical questions – and rightly so.

the sun comes out for 5 mins: kill the pigs!

i’m as guilty as anyone.

Horses can’t speak.

If they don’t want to run, they won’t run. It’s not like they are electrocuted if they fail to comply.

They run, it’s what they do.

Like you say, running is what they do. But they don’t need jockeys and trainers to coax them into doing it.

I doubt you’ve ever met a trainer in your life. Most are paid bugger all and are not making millions gambling money they don’t have.

FAIL. One of my past customers was and probably is still is a trainer (up in Manchester). Used to bring in horses from Eastern Europe IIR.

I’m looking forward to the day when it all goes back to how it should be…..like the ‘Garden of Eden’ Where children will romp in the fields with lions and tigers and bunny rabbits and baby robins. And we will all be friends………………..

Chickens do not ask to be couped up in a barn and mistreated, yet I bet you still eat battery chicken and battery eggs!

Not you personally, just put out to the masses who do not like horse racing! for the cruelness aspect of the sport.

Its one of those things that will never change.

The chances of a horse dying are minimal, and although very sad when it happens, you have to take into account the high quality life that these horses have.

chewkw – Member

The horse has no choice unlike the human.

Never seen a horse refuse a jump? Of course the horse has a choice- the ones that race jumps are the ones that choose to jump, the ones that choose not to jump race flats, the ones that can’t be convinced to go fast don’t race at all.

spacemonkey – Member

As has been said before, has a horse ever said, “Here, I’m up for a race … count me in.”

Yup- never seen a loose horse continue to race?

More often than I’ve seen one practicing on it’s own in a field…

It’s about money really isn’t it?

No money = no horse racing.

Of course horses like to run fast and jump over stuff, they’d have died out long ago otherwise.

Horses die in a sport that relies on money to sustain every level of it. To pretend any different is futile.

A Zebra only likes to run fast and jump over stuff if there is a lion quite close behind…

It’s about money really isn’t it?

No money = no horse racing.

Of course horses like to run fast and jump over stuff, they’d have died out long ago otherwise.

Horses die in a sport that relies on money to sustain every level of it. To pretend any different is futile.

Yes if there was no money the horses would be bred for meat or not bred at all.

If they don’t want to run, they won’t run. It’s not like they are electrocuted if they fail to comply.

They run, it’s what they do

over simplification you may as well argued that circus animal excecise choice then clearly training [coercion??] occurs to help persuade them both. We do take advantage of its natural desire to run a bit like we could take advantage of cocks natural desire to fight by building some small pits and throwing them in. I mean after all they choose to fight they could just crow at the crowd. [ horse racing is not comparable to cock on death count]- but we cannot really be sure they are excercising choice. Is it cruel probably pretty rare a human dies in a race without a machine being involved.
Perhaps we could spice up Downhill racing or sking by making courses so tough some may not get down alive?

Wether you agree with horse racing or not, thourgh bred horses would not exsist if it wasn’t for racing. Its the only chance they have of life. No racing, no horses. If I was a horse it would be a no brainer. “were’s my jockey”