Not sure if this has been mentioned but I considered this before deciding on a slackline for myself
A 2012 decade versa II

I’ve been thinking about the psi argument etc and thought why build a hardtail in steel at all for trail use etc if you build the rear triangle stiff? This is aimed at a couple of the manufacturers/steel frames that I’ve owned.

I gather much of the vertical movement at the rear axle comes from the top tube bending and the rear triange essentially pivoting around the bottom bracket, not from the rear triangle flex. Regarding buzz, I suspect it ties in with the resonant frequencies of the frame, which are a function of mass and compliance – steel frames are more likely to have usefully low resonant frequencies which absorb the buzz frequencies. The lower mass and compliance of aluminium frames shifts the resonance much higher.

I observed this switching everything from a Boardman HT to a Soul – the Boardman isn’t a stiff frame but the Soul damped trail buzz so much better you can run the tyres about 40% harder before it loses the compliance edge – and with the harder tyres it rolls and pumps better.

@ OP Rock Lobster of any interest to you?

@ Deviant and Mamadirt – nice to see some other owners of modern Kona HT’s about. (I have a steel Kona Blink btw)

Looking at the Kona range- little confusing. Is there anything light in there that you could cheekily lift the travel +20mm?

SV I’d be interested to hear your view on Soul v Life.

Haven’t had a Soul before but just changed from a steel 456 and before that an 853 Inbred and two ordinary ones before that.

The Sanderson is much more XC than any of the On-Ones IMO (I have the Revs at 110mm) and for ‘normal’ trails a whole lot faster than the 456. It climbs very well and is quite light for a steel frame (4 odd pounds). Lovely finish on the frame too.

I gather much of the vertical movement at the rear axle comes from the top tube bending and the rear triange essentially pivoting around the bottom bracket, not from the rear triangle flex

I don’t think this could happen with a traditional front triangle. There would have to be a *hell* of a lot of force to bend a big top tube using compression forces (ie – the force from the seat stays pushes directly into the end of the top tube). If you had a curvey top tube, this might be possible, which I think is the philosophy behind a jones frame

the whole thing looks like its designed for the rear triangle to pivot as you suggest, pulling the seattube in and the top tube down

but I think Jones welds the seat stays/brace to the seat tube which rather defeats the object?

Why not leave the seat stays just to pivot from the head tube?

You seem to go through a lot of bikes Mr Hora. What exactly are you looking for? The easiest to ride bike in the world? The most fun? Most efficient? Something else? Ridden some good bikes in the past but just didn’t ‘get on’ with them? Probably easier to change bikes than to change how you ride. Probably more fun too.

I’ve been thinking about the psi argument etc and thought why build a hardtail in steel at all for trail use etc if you build the rear triangle stiff? This is aimed at a couple of the manufacturers/steel frames that I’ve owned.

This lecture by Cy from Cotic explains some of the materials usage choices. Quite an interesting watch.

http://thisisheffield.co.uk/2011/cotic-lectures-cy-turner-from-cotic-on-bike-design/

but I think Jones welds the seat stays/brace to the seat tube which rather defeats the object?

Why not leave the seat stays just to pivot from the head tube?

i agree that makes it ‘more rigid’ – I can only guess the bike was too flexy otherwise. even with it welded there, as it is pressing into the middle of the seat tube, rather than into the top (where the top tube joins) i expect the flex in that part of the seat tube gives it a bit more compliance than a regular frame?

incidentally, does anyone still make ‘soft-tail’ bikes?

Euro I want to try almost every bike in the world. Love it. Not at mamadirt’s levels though 😉 Saying that if I was as wealthy as Robin Williams I’ve have a similar sized number of bikes! Hes got circa 30 top end road bikes, hes no TDF rider but hes passionate about it, its his hobby and he loves it

Great fun and its a good job I can tear down and build up any frame within an hour.

All the power in the world to people who ride the same bike for 10yrs etc. However I like change, its fun. Like my Mum said about my Dad, you can’t be buried with your money now can you?

I genuinely enjoyed the Sanderson Life that I owned. It felt comfy and lively in a way that the Ti456 didn’t. That just felt flexy.

I also loved my 2001 Rocky Mountain Vertex. If I’d stick to a handful of bikes in my life I’d never know the good, the bad and the ugly 8)

Voodoo D-jab.
There’s one on the classifieds at the mo’ i think.

Love mine. Cost £450 for the frame which weighs about 3.5lb
Got 140mm Thors and a Rohloff on it, and it goes like stink.

Euro I want to try almost every bike in the world. Love it.

You don’t need to buy them to try them.
I’ve owned less than 200 bikees but I’ve tried thousands.

chiefgrooveguru – Member

I gather much of the vertical movement at the rear axle comes from the top tube bending and the rear triange essentially pivoting around the bottom bracket, not from the rear triangle flex.

I seem to remember I think, Brant, saying something similar on a previous thread a while ago, making me wonder why as a result all tiny frames weren’t harsh – that said, the shorter frames I’ve ridden have always felt more ‘lively’ (read, challenging to control on faster downhills) than those with longer TTs. I think ‘bending’ and ‘pivoting’ are maybe extreme descriptions – I guess ‘give’ and compliance’ may better describe the feeling of a more comfy frame . . . but hey, what do I know . . . I’m still on a massive learning trip and loving it 😛

Hora, the Five-O is designed for 140mm forks (comes with Marz 55s as standard). My Lyriks have been set at 130 this week but I’ve only ridden it on the road so far – as said above it feels really comfy but I have to say that today my legs are shot – no idea why 😕 . Off to Cwmcarn in a mo’ anyway (the make or break ride 😆 ) so we’ll see. Quite sure it’ll handle the forks wound out another 20mm just fine.

You don’t need to buy them to try them.

Yes you do, if you’re only 5’2″ 😉

😆 I ride smaller bikes than most 5’2″ riders.

I’m not talking about demo bikes BTW, never ridden a demo bike in my life, I tend to just ask for a shot of anything I like the look of (or if it’s a mates bike, I’ll jusrt ride it when not attended)

Same here, anything that looks interesting. Rude not to 🙂

Hora……saw this on another “cough” forum……

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=40050&t=12808632

seems reasonable

Gis a go on your bike then GW? 😆 I have no (small) friends 😕 .

Cwmcarn on the Five-O was great – aching like crazy now but in a good way – I like this one 😛 .

you’re welcome to have a go on any of them any time mama