Tootall – your post makes no logical sense that I can see. Do you have an explanation?

Hang your head in shame. You are only letting yourself down.

McBoo – the numbers on employment were much closer if you used the same counting methods

How did I know you were going to say that. Do you ever give an inch on any point?

But I dont actually disagree that we shouldnt just try and race to the bottom, however cheap you make yourself, India and China are going to do it cheaper. Luckily we still live a a fantastically inventive country, we can leave India to be a huge back-office and focus on the real value-added.

Make your mind up TJ – I’ll put the full context

If we withdrew from the EC I am absolutly certain it would have major effects. Companies that use us for a low tax low regulation manufacturing entry intot eh EU would have no incentive to remain, we would have no right to trade with the EC and I am certain we would lose much trade/

In one breath, you’re telling us that being a low tax low regulation is vital to the economy, in the other you say we shouldn’t be – the two are diametrically opposed!

hypocritical git!

Why do you go around making stuff up / quoting out of context Zulu? I know you can’t help yourself. The insults show how weak your case is.

tootall – your position has no logic that I can see, your refusal to explain it leads me to believe that you cannot explain it.

McBoo -because its the truth?

Yes TJ I remember you writing that at the time too, sounded like hostage to fortune and so it was….oops.

Behave TJ

It seems pretty clear to me that he means that while there are no doubt some incompetent head teachers who use ‘recycling’ as a way of avoiding the hassle of getting rid of incompetent teachers, there are likely many more for whom the process is simply to clunky and complex to be able to focus on while also trying to do the other things they’re trying to keep on top of so they make a decision to follow the accepted norm and recycle rather than wasting lots of time on it. That also obviously gets rid of the incompetent teacher much faster so presumably reducing the complaints from teachers and or increasing grades on which they’re measured.

Clare Collins, chair of the National Governors Association, told BBC Breakfast there were “processes in place” to deal with incompetence, but acknowledged they were “too long winded and clunky” and needed to be “quicker, more efficient and more effective”.

I did say it as that is what will happen. what I did not say is I believed the low tax low regulation economy was a good thing. It is not.

looks, sees standard of the debate, rejects chance to hurl insults, leaves

Geetee – sorry I simply do not agree. Our “competitive advantage” should be not at the cost of adequate workers rights and is at least as likely to cost us jobs and investment as it does to gain them. there are several instances of plants being closed in the UK and kept open in the rest of europe because its cheaper to close the plants here.

I do agree TJ and you’re right, there are plenty of cases where redundancies have been executed here because they are easier to do than in France or Germany.

I think we would agree with each other if we said that the current laws seem to offer a good balance; I wouldn’t want to see it shift either way. Maybe you would like to see more protection for employees?

The competitive advantage I’m referring to, as an example, is that ‘liquidity’ in the employment market, gives rise to constant exchange of people and thus ideas. That stimulates radical innovation; new ideas, new inventions, break throughs in technology and products.

In Germany for example, the largely static workforce means that you don’t get this cross polination of ideas and therefore you don’t get radical innovation.

What you do get is exemplary process refinement. The guys building the VW Golf now have been doing it for 25 years; what they don’t know about how to refine the manufacturing process isn’t worth worrying about.

So two different systems, two different examples of their advantages and disadvantages. Niether is better, they’re just different.

If you tried to recreate German labour laws in the UK, you’d potentially shut off that free flow of people and ideas. It’s more nuanced than that obviously, and far more complex, but that’s the general idea.

Should read “Incompetant head teachers recycle incompetant teachers”

Let me correct that for you, as it should not read that at all:

Should read “Incompetent head teachers recycle incompetent teachers”

I really hope you get it now. You do get it now, don’t you?

oh, looks like I read rather too much into it 😳

TJ…..I just checked with my Head of MacroEconomic Research

“Remind him that between 2000 and 2007 German and French unemployment never got below 8%. In Britain it never got above 6%.”

TJ, I’ve quoted nothing out of context. in fact, you even followed it up with

So its either in and use our influence to get decision made our way or out, have no influence, lose manufacture and trade.

contrasted with

I did say it as that is what will happen. what I did not say is I believed the low tax low regulation economy was a good thing. It is not.

So, are you telling us now that losing manufacture and trade would be a good thing? if it is such a bad thing, why were you so keen to tell us that it would be a disaster? You made no mention whatsoever of being a low tax, low regulation economy being a bad thing on the thread about Europe, you’re only flip flopping around now because you know that you’ve dug a hole for yourself.

And, frankly, trying to use the “ooh, he insulted me” defence, given your treatment of people on the thread discussing the insulation in your flat, is bloody hilarious!

And, frankly, trying to use the “ooh, he insulted me” defence, given your treatment of people on the thread discussing the insulation in your flat, is bloody hilarious!

Quite.

Howver, it seems pretty clear that his comment isn’t a contradiction. The UK is low tax. TJ never said that he thought that was a good thing, just that in the overall balance that is part of what helps us get investment at present and based on the current economic setup of us and our competitor EU countries. In his ideal world no doubt we’d be higher tax but you can’t instantly change from one to the other.

TJ…..I just checked with my Head of MacroEconomic Research

“Remind him that between 2000 and 2007 German and French unemployment never got below 8%. In Britain it never got above 6%.”

Methodology of collecting figures? My understanding is when you use the internationally recognised figures the difference is much less than the double you claim it to be.

Germany now has lower unemployment than we do.

Zulu – you are insinuating I said the low tax / low regulation economy was a good thing when I did not say that.

Its frankly typical of you to distort things in this way and and why your posts are widely ignored – a policy I shall return to

Edit – thank you clubber

Zulu – you are insinuating I said the low tax / low regulation economy was a good thing when I did not say that.

well, you clearly stated that NOT being one was a bad thing

its frankly typical of you to distort things in this way and and why your posts are widely ignored – a policy I shall return to

Ah, the La,La,La variant of the Edinburgh defence,

well, you clearly stated that NOT being one was a bad thing

Yes, but in context, that’s only about the here and now, not about the long term. As I said, you can’t instantly go from one to the other.

Do you think he understood my explaination, or is he fervently googling his main arguement?

well, you clearly stated that NOT being one was a bad thing

Where? 🙄

I think/hope he got it 😀

tootall – what explanation? I did not see one

If you tried to recreate German labour laws in the UK, you’d potentially shut off that free flow of people and ideas.

Is that shorthand for **** over less people than currently and have a really successful economy by comparision, (one which you may be forgiven for forgetting has managed to reabsorb the Eastern German state and be the powerhouse of the eurozone in recent times?)

Where? 🙄

Sorry TJ – I thought you were ignoring my posts… 😆

I think/hope he got it

tootall – what explanation? I did not see one

WHHHOOOOOOSSSHHHHHH

😥

mcboo – Member

“Remind him that between 2000 and 2007 German and French unemployment never got below 8%. In Britain it never got above 6%.”

I’m curious… During those years, if anyone had said “Look, our unemployment figures are lower than Germany”, what are the odds you’d have responded “But that’s only because the government have fudged the figures and reclassified unemployed people as unable to work and put them on invalidity etc etc”

think/hope he got it

tootall – what explanation? I did not see one

WHHHOOOOOOSSSHHHHHH

as far as I can see Tootall you havent said anything yet, now maybe I am really stupid so would you do the decent thing and let me (and I believe TJ) in on what it is your trying to express.

Now, who would you believe when it comes to the analysis/collation of figures such as unemployment rates, a “Head of Macro Economic Research” or a “Medical Professional”?

Staggering sometimes, isn’t it?

TooTall – Member

Should read “Incompetant head teachers recycle incompet A nt teachers”

Let me correct that for you, as it should not read that at all:

Should read “Incompetent head teachers recycle incompetent teachers”

I really hope you get it now. You do get it now, don’t you?

HTH

Does anyone actually have a problem with sacking of lazy workers? I sure don’t. Regardless of the report content and whether they intend to act on it, I’d hope that anyone not pulling their weight were sacked rather than allowed to linger on being worse than not present.

right, so the point can still stand but I spelt a word wrong? Glad you wasted so much time on it.

Ta clubber 😳

coffeeking – Member

Does anyone actually have a problem with sacking of lazy workers? I sure don’t. Regardless of the report content and whether they intend to act on it, I’d hope that anyone not pulling their weight were sacked rather than allowed to linger on being worse than not present.

Nope – so long as it is done fairly

Does anyone actually know anything about Free Schools and Academies and getting rid of crap teachers? Are there different rules, I know I worked at an Academy myself so should know, but well it never came up.

coffeeking +1

Should lazy workers not pulling their own weight be allowed to cling to a job ….or should they be sacked. Discuss.

Does anyone actually have a problem with sacking of lazy workers? I sure don’t. Regardless of the report content and whether they intend to act on it, I’d hope that anyone not pulling their weight were sacked rather than allowed to linger on being worse than not present.

No, but they can already be dealt with currently by any competent manager/hr department.

Does anyone actually know anything about Free Schools and Academies and getting rid of crap teachers?

As I understand it the teachers in a free school or Academy are employed by the school itself and answerable to the headteacher and the governors. In a regular comprehensive they are employed by the LEA. LEAs havent been exactly rigorous in their HR policies which is why so few bad teachers have been properly held to account.

right, so the point can still stand but I spelt a word wrong? Glad you wasted so much time on it.

You are a teacher aren’t you?

You are a teacher aren’t you?

Yes, whats your point caller?

Mcboo, so that means there’s no difference at all doesnt it, I mean in reality? Head teachers and governors do the hiring and firing at normal schools, LEA’s just hold the purse strings. Sounds to me like another one of Gove’s new powers for teachers to disipline kids thing that was arriving in September. I for one have not been given any new powers, I was hoping for a cattle prod. I bet academies and free schools have to go thru’ the competancy procedure the same as a normal school.

heres some more spelling and grammar to correct Tootall

TandemJeremy – Member
MSP – qualifying period for tribunals went from 2 yrs to one in the late 90s.

However our employment legislation offers us much much less protection that the rest of europe – hence when one multinational wanted to close a plant they closed the british one a it was much cheaper to close than the German one

Exactly that has been my gripe for years and was hoping this would include employees the same writes
here.
But the Torys ruled this one out then.

Does anyone actually have a problem with sacking of lazy workers? I sure don’t. Regardless of the report content and whether they intend to act on it, I’d hope that anyone not pulling their weight were sacked rather than allowed to linger on being worse than not present.

Theres such things in place already, just blame your managers not sorting it out.
The more you allow the harder you will be able to take such actions.