Mcboo, so that means there’s no difference at all doesnt it, I mean in reality? Head teachers and governors do the hiring and firing at normal schools, LEA’s just hold the purse strings

On the face of it yes, what’s the difference? LEAs (and here we do get into a bit of conjecture) are generally staffed by professional educationalists, so by their nature tend to take a more indulgent view towards teaching standards. If you believe the reformers the single biggest obstacle to driving up standards in schools is driving up standards of teaching. That means applying pressure to failing staff and I’m afraid pushing out those who shouldnt be in the classroom. LEAs just havent been fulfilling that side of the bargain……18 teachers sacked for failure in 40 years tells it’s own story.

In Germany for example, the largely static workforce means that you don’t get this cross polination of ideas and therefore you don’t get radical innovation.

Good points but some of the reasons the Germans don’t travel is the pay is very good
and working conditions are excellent.

In Germany for example, the largely static workforce means that you don’t get this cross polination of ideas and therefore you don’t get radical innovation.

Yet they seem to patent so many more ideas than the UK, if I were a more sceptical person, I might think that statement was just made up nonsense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_patents#Top_10_countries_in_2007

Think your forgotten we don’t manufacture much here now
and the working class workforce now stack shelves at Tesco and work in MCDonalds
and other such fast food places, serving waste busting food or call centres.

18 teachers sacked for failure in 40 years tells it’s own story

honest question and I dont know the answer but are you getting confused by the numbers being stopped from teaching rather than sacked. As said most will go well before they are pushed.

grantway – Member

Think your forgotten we don’t manufacture much here now

Myth… Mostly perpetuated by looking at manufacturing as a % of GDP, or as % of employment, rather than looking at it in isolation. Obviously if other industries grow faster, that causes the % of GDP to fall… And as mechanisation increases, numbers of people employed fall. Neither means that manufacturing is falling.

But if you look at it in terms of production and in terms of value, manufacturing was at a record high in 2007, and has grown steadily in the last 50 years. In 2006, we were the 6th biggest manufacturer in the world, graded by value of output.

something a little more up to date:

Britain now ranks seventh the world’s manufacturing league with economists warning that position is under threat from emerging nations.

What such figures don’t show is where all the money actually goes. A lot of it ends up in offshore bank accounts, and a lot of tax isn’t paid…

The UK is slipping downwards and will continue to do so. It’s at the end of it’s period of economic dominance and will be soon be overtaken by emerging economic powers like Brazil and India.

The UK was responsible for 2.6 per cent of world manufacturing output, down from 5.5 per cent in 1980.

That’s less than half what it was 30 years ago. And I don’t really see much chance of that slide being reversed, tbh…

honest question and I dont know the answer but are you getting confused by the numbers being stopped from teaching rather than sacked. As said most will go well before they are pushed.

Sure, but thats true of any line of work, people get a quiet tap on the shoulder and off they quietly go. But it can’t be particularly the case with state teaching…..can it?

Yet they seem to patent so many more ideas than the UK, if I were a more sceptical person, I might think that statement was just made up nonsense.

It’s actually a statement based on patent data, rather ironically. If you study the patent data over the last 20 years, as I rather sadly, have done, you’ll find that the US and UK registered companies tend to file patents covering radical innovation, i.e. new inventions, whereas German companies tend to file patents focused on process refinement.

I can point you in the direction of the literature if you like? Have a look at ‘Divergent Capitalisms; The Social Structuring and Change of Business Systems’ Whitley 1998.

Sure, but thats true of any line of work, people get a quiet tap on the shoulder and off they quietly go. But it can’t be particularly the case with state teaching…..can it?

depends if they have not been Tupe over to a private sector
where you keep your terms and conditions up to One year
and you will loose your years service after that too.

Myth…

Would you all like to know another myth?

The world is no more globalised now, relatively speaking, than it was at the turn of the 19th Century.

This is based on the percentages of GDP generated by foreign trade, for the developed nations at the time. That level is fractionally higher now than it was before, but not significantly.

Globalisation is real, but it’s been real for the last 100 years or so.

But it can’t be particularly the case with state teaching…..can it?

Oh yes, happens all the time. It involves being monitored all the time, having books checked all the time. I will freely admit I dont do what my school says is the minimum of marking, apart from anything else it would take me about 20 hrs a week. No one ever seems to get too bothered by it though. If your a rubbish teacher these things are checked regularly.

What such figures don’t show is where all the money actually goes. A lot of it ends up in offshore bank accounts, and a lot of tax isn’t paid…

The UK is slipping downwards and will continue to do so. It’s at the end of it’s period of economic dominance and will be soon be overtaken by emerging economic powers like Brazil and India.

The UK was responsible for 2.6 per cent of world manufacturing output, down from 5.5 per cent in 1980.
That’s less than half what it was 30 years ago. And I don’t really see much chance of that slide being reversed, tbh…

Same thing with Australia I know a lot of the Kitchen/furniture makers have most if not all there
furniture made in China

most of my repetitive sized furniture is made around Manchester and
we just concentrate on making the special sized cabinets now.

Its cost affective and i am also keeping people employed within this country.

Elfinsafety – Member

That’s less than half what it was 30 years ago. And I don’t really see much chance of that slide being reversed, tbh…

Oh Elfin… You know perfectly well that none of what you posted points to a reduction in UK manufacturing- only to a greater increase elsewhere. And frankly, for a country our size to be “only” the 7th biggest manufacturer in the world, is not something to be pessimistic about.

You know perfectly well that none of what you posted points to a reduction in UK manufacturing

No, but what does point to a reduction in UK manufacturing is a reduction in the number of factories and workshops and that…

And a sizeable chunk of our manufacturing output is weapons and weapon systems. Oh look we’ve bin involved in lots of wars in the last 20 years…

Fact is this country is declining as an economic power, and this decline will continue. Only the most stubborn of ostriches can fail to see this.

Best all start learning Chinese, then….

Thing is Northwind I here you regarding numbers
But there has been a huge reduction in Large manufacturing
including the midi sized factories or workshops that simply
get it made out of this country !
Its ok quoting numbers all day but just how much of that 7th largest manufacturing
is actually made within our waters?

Most of it is brought in made outside and sold off
I would say the North of England is around the last areas of larger manufacturing

A guy I know buys his furniture in from Italy and takes the stickers off and puts his own brand on
and has two guys touching up damaged items and then sending out.

Elfinsafety – Member

No, but what does point to a reduction in UK manufacturing is a reduction in the number of factories and workshops and that…

<bangs head against wall> Your perception is false. Rose by .2% in the last quarter, is predicted to fall by .5% in the next, but with an overall growth of 1.5% for the year. Despite the fact that as you may have heard, there’s a recession on.

If your complaint is that we’re not outproducing China, then that’s inevitable- but don’t pretend our manufacturing sector is in decline. The world’s largest countries produce more than us, shock horror.

grantway – Member

Its ok quoting numbers all day but just how much of that 7th largest manufacturingis actually made within our waters?

100% of it. That’s why it’s called UK manufacturing.

No, but they can already be dealt with currently by any competent manager/hr department.

That’s fair enough, I’m not up on employment law, but I’m under the impression it’s fairly hard to sack someone even with good grounds, hence managers jumping through hoops to prove fault etc.

<bangs head against wall>

Careful, you’ll hurt youself if you keep doing that.

Your perception is false

No it’s not. It’s a fact that there is less manufacturing in this country than there was 30 years ago. There are significantly less factories ffs! Have you not noticed?

No point in quoting massaged engineered figures created by agencies with a vested interest in making positive noises; the truth is the UK’s manufacturing base and economy is in decline, and has bin for ages.

don’t pretend our manufacturing sector is in decline

I’m not pretending, it’s a fact.

No, but they can already be dealt with currently by any competent manager/hr department.

That’s fair enough, I’m not up on employment law, but I’m under the impression it’s fairly hard to sack someone even with good grounds, hence managers jumping through hoops to prove fault etc.

Nope – its straightforward if you have good grounds. Even if its a question of competence is straightforward

Elfinsafety – Member

No it’s not. It’s a fact that there is less manufacturing in this country than there was 30 years ago. There are significantly less factories ffs! Have you not noticed?

I think you know fine well what a straw man that is. Also it’s interesting that your link doesn’t show what you claim it does- were you just hoping I wouldn’t look 😆

What it does show, had you bothered to actually look through it, is that the manufacturing portion of our GDP has declined, employment in manufacturing has declined, and the export of manufactured goods has declined.

I’d say that indicates a decline in manufacturing, woon’t you?

All developed economies have experienced a reduction in the contribution of manufacturing to GDP over the past forty years, but its fall here has been more rapid than in any comparable economy. In 1979 manufacturing accounted for almost 30 per cent of the UK’s GDP. Rapid decline followed, as large parts of British industry closed down while the financial and service sectors expanded. By 2007 just 14 per cent of the GDP could be attributed to manufacturing.

Oh come on now, we’re back to my first post here. And I know you’re not stupid, so I assume you’re doing it deliberately.

1) “The manufacturing portion of our GDP has declined”- manufacturing as a proportion of GDP has declined only because other sectors have grown faster. If GDP grows faster than manufacturing, then manufacturing falls as a percentage of GDP, this doesn’t mean manufacturing has fallen. Just maths.

2) “Employment in manufacturing has declined”- Productivity increases, and changes in the type of products made. If you replace 10 men operating lathes manually, with one CNC machine with 1 man running it, does that mean manufacturing has fallen by 90%? Of course not. Manufacturing is measured by output not by manpower.

3) “Export of manufactured goods has declined”- your link says no such thing, go look. Don’t confuse the balance of trade with the scale of exports- imports have increased faster than exports, but from 98 to 08 goods exports increased 78% (in 2009 they dropped, but by almost exactly the world mean)

I have no idea why people are so keen to run UK manufacturing down. It’s impossible for it to compete on even terms with China and the USA, that’s a given but to put down what it achieves is just plain strange.

Fine post, Northwind

got to say, it looks like you’ve been comprehensively pwnd there elf. 😉