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1. eldridge - Member

   What a geezer! Who could resist the appeal to let him out for his 80th birthday?

   After all, he and his mates only nicked £2 million (at 1960s values!) and fatally assaulted an innocent railway employee

   Sentenced to 30 years, he served 15 months and then escaped, to live for 30 years a luxurious lifestyle supported by unspecified sources of income in various countries with much better weather than the UK

   When the ageing process finally caught up with him and he was in desperate need of free healthcare he returned to UK in 2001 and was sent back to jail (with the free healthcare he came for)

   Now his misguided family want him released because he "poses no threat to society"

   But has he paid his debt to the society for which he clearly has such cynical contempt?

   Posted 3 years ago #
2. grizzlygus - Member

   Yeah let him go I reckon. I'm not interested in keeping a sick 80 year old man in prison for something which he did over 40 years ago, unless it was gassing jews.

   .

   and fatally assaulted

   You sure about that ?

   Posted 3 years ago #
3. eldridge - Member

   and fatally assaulted an innocent railway employee

   Actually grizzlygus you are right. All they did was hit him on the head with an iron bar.

   So that's all right then

   However:

   something which he did over 40 years ago

   Thirty years of which should have been served in jail, but weren't, because he escaped, so he's still got some time to do however old he may be

   Posted 3 years ago #
4. grizzlygus - Member

   All they did was hit him on the head with an iron bar.

   So that's all right then

   Did I say that ?

   Posted 3 years ago #
5. GrahamA - Member

   Prison is just about punishment; its about rehabilitation, someone who escaped and was on the run for 30 years could hardly be rehabilitated.

   We can't withdraw citizenship from people we don't like nor deny treatment to criminals.

   Posted 3 years ago #
6. jova54 - Member

   They should have left him in Brazil to rot.

   The Brazilians had no interest in returning him to the UK even knowing that he was a convicted criminal.

   People like Biggs don't deserve the benefits of our welfare system when he paid nothing into it for 30 years and 'thumbed his nose' at the UK from the safety of Brazil for so long.

   Posted 3 years ago #
7. cynic-al - Member

   it must be a fairly unique situation. Don't think he should be let out though, he's had the freedom he would otherwise be having now.

   Posted 3 years ago #
8. SST - Member

   "Ronnie Biggs was doing time until he done a bunk
   Now he says he's seen the light and he sold his soul to punk"

   Hmmm 30 years of comfortable lifestyle, young wife, good weather can't really be counted as time served can it? So, regardless of his age, he still owes Her Majesty some time?

   Posted 3 years ago #
9. trailmonkey - Member

   He should serve his time. End of story. I'm not even sure why there's any debate that he shouldn't ?

   Posted 3 years ago #
10. TandemJeremy - Member

    Keep him in I say - his sentence was harsh but it was still his time to do and he ain't done it. There are plenty of old men in jail. He is not unique

    Posted 3 years ago #
11. RepacK - Member

    The bloke is a nasty piece of work - as the old adage goes: If you cant do the time, dont do the crime..

    Posted 3 years ago #
12. scraprider - Member

    tough bits. keep him in

    Posted 3 years ago #
13. RudeBoy - Blocked

    Leave the old bastard in there to rot. No doubt, his family will be all 'oh, but he's an old man, and should have some dignity to spend his remaining days with his loved ones'- tough shit. He's the one that has denied his family the ability to be near him, not the British Government. He broke the law. A man was seriously injured, and his life ruined, by those violent criminal thugs. Biggs should spend the rest of his days contemplating that, not living it up.

    Posted 3 years ago #
14. mandog - Member

    Hang 'im like they did Saddam.

    Posted 3 years ago #
15. epicyclo - Member

    He helped destroy another man's life, and the gang were prepared to do in all the railwaymen if necessary.

    A free pardon, and drop him off half way to Brazil.

    (From about 30,000 feet should do the trick)

    Posted 3 years ago #
16. Coyote - Member

    Has he served his sentence? No? Sorry, stay inside for the duration.

    Posted 3 years ago #
17. grizzlygus - Member

    There really is an impressive level of nonsense on this thread.

    Some appear to think Biggs got 30 years for hitting someone over the head. He didn't, he got 30 years for robbing a mail train. No one gets 30 years for hitting someone over the head (some coppers would be sh1tting today if that were true). You don't even get that for murder. And anyway, there's never been any proof that it was Biggs who hit the guard.

    Some appear to think that Biggs evading capture is as bad, if not worst, than his actual crime. It's perfectly normal for a criminal to avoid capture, they don't normally hand themselves in, so it's hardly something which is unique to Biggs.

    TJ - Have you got some sort of evidence to back up your claim that there are plenty of 80 year old men in jail - or is it just a hunch ? And are there 'plenty' of old men in prison who like Biggs, can't talk, walk, or swallow ?

    Comments like "the gang were prepared to do in all the railwaymen if necessary" are complete nonsense and there's no evidence to suggest that. In fact all the evidence is that they didn't intend to kill anyone - that's why none of them had any firearms, something which they could have easily obtained.

    And comments like dropping him from 30,000 feet are totally disportionate. The guy robbed a mail train, he's not a serial killer or rapist ffs.

    Could go on, but can't be ar5sed ......

    Posted 3 years ago #
18. RudeBoy - Blocked

    So, he escaped from jail, lived the life of Riley in Brazil, got ill, came back home to Blighty, and promptly got banged up. How many years has he actually done so far?

    I agree that 30 years seems disproportionate. But, once he stepped back on British soil, he had to face the penalty of Law, otherwise it would be a mockery of Justice.

    Whether or not he or any of the team intended to kill anyone or not is irrelevant. They used violence to steal a load of money. They broke the Law. Some have been inside, done their time, got released. Biggs has to face the same.

    30 years inside was the sentence handed down at his trial. He won't actually spend that long inside. And he's had the best part of his life, living in luxury.

    No, let him rot. Seems about right, tbh.

    Posted 3 years ago #
19. Russell96 - Member

    It appears in today's society that crimes against property rate higher sentences than crimes against people. Kill someone while pissed up behind the steering wheel of a car will get you slammed up for a lot less than defrauding a company.

    What has annoyed me, is betray secrets to a foreign state that has resulted in people going up against the wall and if you for whatever reason get away with it for 30 years then nothing happens to you.

    Posted 3 years ago #
20. grizzlygus - Member

    lived the life of Riley in Brazil,

    He was skint - that's why he had to sign autographs, have his picture taken with people, sell stories, etc etc

    .

    otherwise it would be a mockery of Justice.

    What ? And you don't think that keeping in prison an 80 year old man who can't talk, can't walk, and dribbles because he can't swallow, isn't a 'mockery of justice' ? ffs

    You think if they let him go home to die it will 'send out the wrong signals' and everybody will want to go out and rob mail trains ?

    ffs.

    Posted 3 years ago #
21. epicyclo - Member

    Grizzlygus, tell all that to the railwayman who got clobbered.

    Posted 3 years ago #
22. RepacK - Member

    Grizzly your off the plot if you think Biggs should be allowed to walk. He broke the law, got nicked, then escaped - do you think anybody really gave a **** that he was broke in Brazil???

    He's a nasty sort - end of story. The Master Mind of a vicious gang who were prepared to commit assault or worse to achieve their ends. Stop being so misty eyed & romantic, there are no innocent victims when it comes to crime.

    Posted 3 years ago #
23. El-bent - Member

    Grizzly your off the plot

    Yes, constantly.

    Posted 3 years ago #
24. grizzlygus - Member

    do you think anybody really gave a **** that he was broke in Brazil

    I get the impression that RudeBoy feels that Biggs financial status whilst he was living in Brazil is important.
    So the answer to your question appears to be 'yes'.

    .

    The Master Mind of a vicious gang

    I'm sure that I must be reading that wrong. Because if I'm reading it correctly, it is in fact complete nonsense, ie Biggs only played a minor role in the robbery, and in fact didn't even take any part in it's planning.

    What do you mean ?

    Posted 3 years ago #
25. trailmonkey - Member

    He was skint - that's why he had to sign autographs, have his picture taken with people, sell stories, etc etc

    Yeah it was so awful that he only stayed there a couple of weeks, then surrendered didn't he ?

    30 years was a very long sentence and I've no doubt that it was a statement from the establishment. However, was the sentence lawful ? If so, then Biggs had to do his time and go through the correct channels of appeal if he thought the sentence too severe.
    The fact that he's an 80 year old man serving time, is due to his own decision to flee. If he'd have served his time, he'd be out by now.

    Posted 3 years ago #
26. Drac - Moderator

    Should serve his sentence.

    Posted 3 years ago #
27. TandemJeremy - Member

    Grizzlygus
    

    On 30 June 2007 there were 2,221 prisoners aged over 60 in England and Wales, including 405 over 70. The number of sentenced prisoners aged 60 and over rose by 169% between 1995 and 2005.

    
    http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/subsection.asp?id=273

    From some stuff I have read there are plenty with serious disabilites including wheelchair users and so on. Some jails have geriatric wings staffed with nursing staff - basically nursing homes behind bars

    Posted 3 years ago #
28. surfer - Member

    GG the fact that you have no desire to see him remain in prison is neither here nor there, although you are entitled to your opinion.

    You shouldn't dismiss the violent nature of the crime or his part in it. He was complicit in a crime that at least ruined and likely shortened an innocent mans life. The fact that he avoided punishment strikes many as unfair (hence the response on this thread) particularly as in the UK we expect justice to "be seen to be done"

    I share the view that it would be inhumane to keep such a sick man in prison now but also share the view that he has abused the system by choosing only to return to the UK for treatment, this is cynical.

    If he had remained in the UK he would likely be a free man now and this would be a mute point. However he made a choice and the bottom line he is likely to receive little sympathy.

    Posted 3 years ago #
29. Junkyard - Member

    30 years + whatever for breaking out of prison ...he is taking the pi55 he only came back here needed the health care to prolong his own life (at our expense) knowing this would be in jail. I feel very little compassion towards him as he showed very little remorse in Brazil and seemed to revel in his notoriety.

    Posted 3 years ago #
30. ransos - Member

    The thirty year sentence was purely political - no other robbery has ever received such harsh punishment. It's ironic that if he had received a sentence in keeping with the crime, it's unlikely he would have bothered fleeing to Brazil. By my reckoning, he's now served about 10 years in total in a UK prison, which is probably about right for armed robbery. Time to let him go home to die.

    Posted 3 years ago #
31. RepacK - Member

    So he wasnt the Boss - so what? He was still part of a gang who committed a crime which in terms of size wasnt matched until the Brinks Mat job. Should we set an example here and say "Its ok, you broke the law, fled the country & avoided the sentence which was handed down to you, come home & suckle off the breast of Welfare State..We dont mind :wink:"

    Or do we have a bit of spine & show Biggs & others that Justice is patient. That sooner or later it will catch up with you..

    My point is he's a crook, a nasty one, one who was prepared to go to great lengths to evade capture who only gave himself up when he was sick & needed to come back to the UK. At what point does this man deserve sympathy?

    Posted 3 years ago #
32. ransos - Member

    "My point is he's a crook, a nasty one, one who was prepared to go to great lengths to evade capture who only gave himself up when he was sick & needed to come back to the UK. At what point does this man deserve sympathy?"

    He doesn't. But arguably, he's already served a sentence commensurate with his crime. On that basis, what grounds are there for keeping him in prison? It's not as if he's going to re-offend.

    Posted 3 years ago #
33. RepacK - Member

    Ransos - what sentence would that be?

    Posted 3 years ago #
34. cynic-al - Member

    what grounds are there for keeping him in prison?

    He evaded the sentence handed down upon him, and hasn't served it.

    Why should he be be rewarded for the former?

    Posted 3 years ago #
35. ransos - Member

    According the OP, he served 15 months back in the 60s and has been in prison in the UK since 2001, so he's been in jail for about 10 years already.

    There seems to be a general tone on this thread that he should stay in prison because he hasn't served 30 years. In my view, 30 years was disproportionate to the crime committed, and was handed down for political reasons. Doesn't armed robbery normally get 10-15 years?

    Posted 3 years ago #

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