[Closed] Glencoe... an inconvenient truth.

bourbons and coffee anyone?

😀 Rainy Sunday = Dunking day

Hooray for soggy hobnobs!!

Is there an executive summary?

Have you thought of a title yet?

summary?

sounds to me like the owner has agreed to turn Glencoe into a MTB resort, without any of the other key stakeholders being consulted, so you got the brunt of their resistance?

you've done the best thing in walking away mate.

You're better off out of it by the sound of it, good luck with your next venture..

Yep, feel for you chap, must be hard putting up with aggressive, unorganised management structure, but to me it stinks of family politics and a realisation that their business doesn't make much if any profit. Personally I've never seen a future in Glencoe. It's a bleak hellhole of a place when it's raining...and spectacular for the remaining half an hour of the year. Snow conditions generally tend to be the worst of all the Scottish centres due to its location, and the sheer amount of rain means mtb tracks suffer massive erosion every year. I can never see it as a viable business, and after your post I will guarantee a spectacular failure under the current regime. I really do wish you all the best for the future.

A family conflict? In Glencoe? Now, where've I heard that before?

All the best to the OP. Sounds like you put a lot in.

They sound like a bunch of cowboys, but not having everything in written contract was I'd say an error on your part.

How's about a MTB boycott?

Some folk have recently being asking just exactly what in the hell went down at Glencoe: here is a fairly comprehensive overview, I hope you are ready for a monster post as I feel I ought to tell the story from my perspective:

I would like to start by thanking the good people at Glencoe Mountain, of which there are many, for their warmth, friendship, support and good banter. The majority of the staff come highly recommended and despite what you may read below, I genuinely enjoyed most of my experiences at the resort.

This is a complex story, and I have condensed it as far as possible, whilst trying remain objective and omission free, without straying too deeply into resort politics which existed before I came on the scene.

Firstly, a bit of an insight into the background of my business at Glencoe Mountain Resort as a mountain bike guide/coach: during initial negotiations between the majority owner of the Resort and myself in November 2011, it was agreed that I would rent an office on site at £75/week~ this seemed like a good deal, as we agreed the in house engineering team would complete the new bike track as well as a pump track in time for opening around May 2012~ however, partly due to storms over the winter which destroyed some buildings and infrastructure, as well as completing the new accommodation area, this was not possible, and the track was opened in late May 2012 as a basic fire road style descent, which was not likely to attract many customers... it also prevented me from beginning skills courses as there was simply no features on which to teach skills. I was admittedly a touch shocked at the time, but since rapport was still being established, I kept this sentiment to myself and focused on the positives as this was the start of a partnership that was projected to grow over years.

In the meantime, I had already laid out my own money for advertising materials, went canvassing around local accommodation providers and spent a huge amount of time constructing my own website, so I was already wholly committed to the venture, thus when it was proposed by the Resorts owner that I began work on the track myself to increase its appeal and attract more customers, I agreed... we negotiated a sum of £75 a day to do this work, initially in lieu of rent on the office, with any sum above this to be payrolled once the work was complete (in fairness, the resort owner explained at this stage that cash flow was a problem, so payment might be a... though this deviated from our original agreement, I understood their predicament and reasoned it was essentially a longer term investment that would pay off once I started running skills courses and was lead to believe that once the necessary engineering works for the accommodation were complete, the engineering operations team would work on completing the trail, which wouldn’t take long as they had earth moving machinery... being as the largest trade would likely occur Jul-Aug, this all seemed reasonable at the time.

Time passed by and progress continued on the trail~ considering to begin with, it was essentially a featureless access road with dangerous amounts of loose rock and inherent drainage problems, as anyone can see when they visit, the time and sheer physical exertion I singlehandedly put into ensuring the trail was enjoyable and commercially competitive was no small task, being as I was just using hand tools, and a power barrow. I also put a not inconsiderable amount of work into documenting progress and promoting the trail, via various social media such as mountain biking forums , facebook and twitter. Before building the trail, I was told consideration would have to be made for access by a 6 wheeled ATV, which was on order and would be used in case of accidents and emergencies. Thus any features I built were made to either allow skirting around, or withstanding such a vehicle.

At the start of July, I split with my partner and was kicked out of the house... I decided that the easiest solution would be to buy a cheap caravan and since I was working at Glencoe Mountain, I asked if I could park it there, to which to their credit, they agreed~ at the time, it was implied that since I was already paying rent for the office, there would be no additional charge.

Coincidentally, the start of July was also around the time the Engineering team finished the accommodation section, so I going by what I’d been told earlier, I reasoned soon, I’d have some help; as it transpired though, one of the lifts up further up the hill required an extensive overhaul ready for the winter season.

I continued to slog away, generally working afternoon and evenings, as this reduced disruption to trail users whilst the lift was running. Somewhen around this time, I was approached by some fine folk on this forum, who suggested we organise a dig and ride weekend~ I had already proposed this idea some time earlier, and though the resort owner was positive, the Engineering manager was a touch more reticent, explaining that “volunteers tend to think they own whatever they’ve built”, so at the initial stage, that plan was shelved... nonetheless, with a bit of back rubbing and charm, we managed to organise a build weekend.

The week before the build weekend, the Engineering team decided they needed a cat tracked digger up the hill and just drove it up the track, whilst some riders were hurtling down. In fairness, they radio’ed the lifty to give the riders advance warning, and the driver was as careful as he could be to avoid damage to the track, however, there was nonetheless fairly extensive damage. I was pretty shocked to see the digger appear over the brow of the hill as I stood there sweating, carefully arranging interlocking stones to form the foundations of a rhythm section. I raised my concerns vocally (and passionately) with the engineering manager and suggested that if this was going to happen again, sufficient prior warning would be the best policy... I also suggested that for safety purposes the track be shut until such time as I had made good any rocks that had been loosened. After this incident, I raised the issue with the resort owner who told me they had always managed to get the machinery up the hill before the track was made, so he would ensure they used the traditional route to avoid damage to the track.

Anyhow, the near legendary “Glencoe Hot Diggedy” build weekend went ahead, much of which was focused on repairing damage caused by the digger... on the plus side. it will go down in history as the most perfect trail building conditions ever experienced at Glencoe, with sunshine, a light breeze and no midges (+ booze?). Also worthy of note is some of the most intrepid and gnarly tandem shredding puny mortals have ever witnessed. Once again, massive thanks to everyone who turned up and worked their guts out... the weekend (and especially the tandem!!) generated some publicity for the track and the number of riders visiting began to increase.

For some time after this, it rained, meaning since I had accrued several days work above the seasons rent, it was a good time to leave the trailbuilding on the backburner and focus on building the business proper.

This seemed to irk certain members of the management, who started making bitchy comments suggesting I was lazy. I found this a touch offensive~ as I was living on site, I spent a fair bit of time in the cafe and having a good camaraderie with the staff, when things got busy, I was all too happy to help out, collecting plates, changing toilet rolls and in one incident, when some misguided soul had actually had a poo in a bin, literally cleaning other peoples sh*t. This was compounded by the fact that my accuser was well paid for her role, which consisted mostly of loudly playing songpop on her ipad, disturbing the ambience of the cafe and irritating clients. Obviously, I retaliated somewhat and things seemed to settle down again.

As we are now into September, I had been discussing with staff what jobs were available over winter~ evening staff in the cafe seemed the best role, so one evening whilst speaking to the owner, I enquired as to the prospect of securing such a role for the winter. He explained that he left recruitment to the management team, but he couldn’t see there would be a problem. I also enquired as to the prospect of payment now I was owed a not insignificant sum. His initial reaction was along the lines of: I’m not paying you, you’ve been staying here in your caravan. Though this was quite a slap in the face, in the interests of diplomacy, I curbed my tongue and suggested over the coming week, we discussed alternative means of payment.

Though initially I was met with resistance, I put my perspective across in an email, the choice points of which are below:

At this stage in time, when Glencoe is just finding it’s feet as a mtb centre, the most important area to focus on for a long term sustainable business is the trail infrastructure... especially when there are sooo many more competitors within the UK than on the skiing side of things; granted, the chairlift is a draw (though there are many trail centres which have minibus uplifts), but unless the trails are enjoyable to the target demographic and comparable to the competition , then the reputation would be tarnished from the outset~ as BIG Mountain Scotland is intrinsically associated with Glencoe Mountain Resort, both my business itself and my reputation within the MTB community relies on the quality of the trails.

Whilst I appreciate a better route to making money in the short term would be to exploit the existing trails in the surrounding area, at this stage, there is not sufficient draw to make that side of things a profitable and sustainable business not to mention the impact to my credibility in the long term .

Notwithstanding the fact that I am now living on site, the reason I agreed rent the office in the 1st instance is because I was under the impression it would provide me with the infrastructure necessary to conduct business. As you can doubtless appreciate, though I lack huge sums of money, I’m investing what I can into ensuring the trail does match up to the competition, because I have every faith that in time, my investment will pay off...

Speaking of figures, let us assume for a moment that a reasonable expectation (and conservative once the full potential has been achieved, especially if events were to be included) for rider numbers purchasing a day pass for the red trail over the next 5 years is 30 per week for 25 weeks of the year.
So... 30x25 = 750 each paying £25 = £18,750/year x 5 years = £93,750 turnover from the chairlift as a direct result of the trail, with additional income from the cafe, accommodation and bike hire resulting from these visitors who would not have previously attended.

I see your point regarding the potential for a niche market for riders wanting the views, but no technical challenge on the trail, but my understanding of niche markets is they lack volume... I would also recommend you ride the trail in it’s current state (thanks to extensive erosion due to gradient and lack of water diversion, the washing out of much of the surfacing has exposed a great deal more rock... something I will address when time allows) to assess its suitability for inexperienced riders.

Without wanting to sound too harsh, this niche market would no doubt dry up over time, as the trail deteriorated... rendering a £60k investment little more than an access road, not bringing in any significant income (I appreciate communications here can be a bit muted, so I’m not sure how much information you’re privy too, but I’ve been led to believe that certain parties only really wanted an access road, rather than a commercially viable bike trail... which reminds me, could you clarify the position with the route for the digger), which would doubtless cause negativity toward the mtb market and further investment in developing the trail infrastructure further to increase visitor numbers and profitability.

In respect of this, though it wasn't the best deal for me, we managed to agree I could carry my accrued earnings over into next seasons rent (i.e. 2013 = now).

The SDA were due to run a race on the route on 30th September and as the track was still damaged from the diggers initial journey, I asked if the engineering team could spare a couple of days to help get the track up to scratch: as I had come to expect, I was met with hostility and a refusal.

This is when things started getting wild... firstly, I was confronted aggressively by a female manager, who demanded I have the office tidy that she may come and see to some paperwork stored in the cupboard; like any normal human, I was a touch affronted by the ferocity of her attack and responded, “I do pay rent you know” with some passion. Being as the management team are a close knit group, mostly of the same family, later that day, I came under some pressure, with snide comments, including, “ a real rock n rolla eh?” (as in the film, wants the ****in lot) and “you’ll be remembered”. Considering this pressure, I was forced to apologise, when in actual fact I was not the aggressor.

Come Friday afternoon, just as I arrived at the top of the chairlift ready to work into the evening, the ATV containing the engineering team rocked up, and I was sneeringly told they needed the sledgehammer, so it better be at the bottom of the lift on Monday morning, or else... knowing full well that the sledgehammer was at the furthest possible point of the track and I would have to carry it down.

The regular harassment was beginning to take its toll and I began losing sleep, which spurred me into action, posting some light hearted retaliation on the Resorts Facebook Page~ this spurred the owner to spontaneously appear one Sunday and to his credit, he was very understanding and lent a hand helping prepare the track for the coming race.

Come Monday morning, it was showtime and I donned sunglasses and a long coat, making reference to the earlier rock n rolla remark, and appearing around the corner just as my victims exited the work van~ handing the sledgehammer over ever so daintily, I said firmly: “Next time, show some manners and we’ll all get along just fine” Many of the staff were giggling all day, but a few folk didn’t seem so amused.

That evening, I went into Fort William to get some supplies~(food and drink, not guns and ammo!!) coming out of the supermarket, as I approached my car, a rough looking tattooed guy approached me and said “excuse me sir” on replying how can I help you, he growled “Fu*k off out of my car park”. I can’t recall my exact response, but I don’t think it was “with pleasure my dear man”. Anyhow, I hopped in the car and went to the supermarket petrol station~ during fuelling, it occurred to me this was quite a coincidence considering the day’s events, so on a hunch, returned to the car park to see if there was any trace of the surly fellow. Sure enough, I noticed a Silver Saab waiting expectantly near the exit, parked across the bays for a swift exit~ I also noticed the guy in question was in the passenger seat and his body language suggested he was trying to avoid being seen. I was pretty pissed off by then and adrenaline was in abundance, so I pulled up at bit away from them at 90 degrees and put my lights on full beam, letting them know they’d been rumbled. I then parked directly in front of the supermarket and waited for them to leave~ however, the thug in question got out of the car and approached me, at which point I decided the best option was to go into the supermarket foyer in sight of the public. He kept trying to get me to come outside to somewhere private so we could discuss matters, however, I said if he had anything to say, why couldn’t he say it here~ we farted around like this for a bit, then eventually got bored~ I hopped into my car and he ran back to his mate in the Saab...

So we had a little car chase up Fort William bypass... on coming to the roundabout on the edge of town toward Glencoe, I figured if they kept following me, things could get ugly, so I feigned a turn, then hooked a u-turn around the traffic island.... in the meantime, they had continued around the roundabout, so I ended up chasing them!! They sped off. I went to the police and tried to explain the situation, but was a bit confused about the digits of the number plate, so didn’t really get anywhere.

Needless to say, I didn’t sleep particularly well that night and chose to sleep in the office for added security.

The next morning, there was some nervous faces and an almighty staring match, whereby a certain individual stood outside the cafe window giving me unbroken evils for what must’ve been getting on for 5 minutes. I sat there with a warm cup of tea and a (fairly) innocent grin, before he finally jacked it in.

Sleep was still in short supply, but the next day, I made my way to the Developing Mountain Biking in Scotland conference in Perth... If any forum members were there, you may recall I was a bit jittery by then and had a bit of an outburst in the evening session.

Just before I left for the season, the digger made its way back down, this time without so much care and destroyed the rhythm section which was over a month’s work and a great deal of other features.

In the end I didn’t get a job there for the winter and was never paid in full, needless to say, I haven't returned this year.

All told it’s a shame that things panned out the way they did, and certainly, in future, I would ensure a contract was drawn up to ensure expectations were fulfilled.

Though I am not proud of my actions, I am certainly not ashamed of my conduct considering the contempt, hostility and ingratitude I was facing... everyone else was paid to work there, whilst I paid to work there.

If you have any questions, or better still suggestions, fire away.

Does the crown race come with the headset?

Sorry to hear that.

One thing I learned form my father -

Hang around with arseholes and eventually you're going to get shat on.

You still rent the office, in lieu of payment. Fill it with kippers?

Sounds like a nightmare, leave them to it.

Your father was a wise man~ thankfully the shit washes off, but the arseholes stay arseholes 😀

what a den of c#nts! they wont get my business again!!

What a shame...

I love the place and have had some special times there, also ridden the track a couple of times and could see the wrok that had gone into it.

Good luck for the future.

Oh cruel was the snow that swept Glencoe.

Shame, i've been waiting for the tracks to get decent up there. Would have been nice to have a chairlift so close to Glasgow

Why labour away to build a trail centre in the most inhospitable and deserted part of the UK? Surely trail centres need to be close to big populations?

[quote=globalti ]Why labour away to build a trail centre in the most inhospitable and deserted part of the UK? Surely trail centres need to be close to big populations?
Uplift?

Could somebody summarise in 140 characters?

Glencoe mountain not great people, according to OP who attempted new trail centre with only himself driving forward. Not turned out well.

This was also done on the trail Scotland website, I am sure there are two sides to every story as mentioned elsewhere. I personally rode the red trail and chatted to you and to Andy on the several days I went up last year both on the trail building.... Not often an owner who is passionate about the place also getting his hands dirty.

Eat more cheese? Do you even ski or board at the mighty one, your comment on "generally worst conditions" is total pish. Check out the public reports section on the winterhighland website.

Glencoe was bust and Andy has transformed the place from a stuck in the rut ski resort to embracing social media, attracting major comps and more importantly communicating with the public when conditions were good bad or indifferent..

The SDA folk are helping repair damage and putting in a reasonable track for the dh scene for next weeks race on the red weasel route. I think people should make up there own mind before discounting the place. That been said I didn't think the red was good enough last year as a destination and each time we were there is was as a stop off rather than a special journey. Similar to glenshee and the lecht in this respect.

All of the ski resorts need to follow the lead from Nevis Range as the way to do it.

So much potential with all of the resorts!!!!!!!!!!

Just need to convince the rabid hill walkers.

I was up today. The (red) track's ruined in places. The first steep section after the flat top traverse is a complete bog with babies head sized loose rocks dumped along the length of it. Not sure if it's the winter or machines tramping up the trail but it's in a bad state. Loose as hell elsewhere. I know there were people up working on it yesterday but it'll be interesting to hear what the racers say after the SDA next week...

Funny you should mention that Bob... sounds exactly like the remedial work I had to do after the digger went through the 1st time though obviously the winter will have played a part as well.

In all fairness to Andy, he does work hard in trying to turn the place around and for the most part, seems to be a genuine and friendly guy; whilst I was there, he put a couple of days work in on the trail (which was much appreciated); other times he was probably on the trail to check progress and discuss issues... however, expecting me to swallow a bad debt when he is the one making money is really not on.

I think the stuck in a rut mindset continues within the majority of the management, which is probably the greatest obstacle of all to progress.

It's great that the SDA are progressing the trail, though considering thus far I'm the one who's effectively paid for it with my labour, not to mention supporting myself whilst doing the work and promoting the trail in the 1st place, some acknowledgement wouldn't go amiss.

140 characters? How about this?

OP sounds genuine but too trusting. Tries to build track with no contract. Glencoe people take piss. Man in Saab looks menacing. OP leaves.

I reckon the red track will fall into disrepair. It was never busy last year and given its current state most people will head to Fort William

Mr Sinatra, even from beyond the grave, your lyrical aplomb is outstanding 😀

Thanks, I just try to do it my way.

Very sad that it's worked out that way- I've spoken to Bigmountainscotland a couple of times and the enthusiasm and passion for the project totally shone through.

Have to say though, I thought the basic uplift was always going to count against the place's viability as anything other than a downhill venue- I did the SDA red route race last year and had a blast but it was the worst uplift I've ever used by far, from the poor hardware to the unhelpful staff (whose job seemed to be to laugh at or shout at people who were struggling to load up). I'll go back and do the dh some time but it's a hard sell over nevis range which isn't so much further.

globalti » Why labour away to build a trail centre in the most inhospitable and deserted part of the UK? Surely trail centres need to be close to big populations?

Uplift?

Does uplift solve any of the problems in the question ?

Trailcentres don't need to be close to big populations, quite the opposite, lots are intentionally built away from population centres to encourage people to visit.

Had a similar test of character a few years ago with a chap doing some pretty extensive mods to a car I owned at the time. Said one thing and did the other, had to bin it on the end for bits!!! Long story, but what should have happened is - discuss project - write contact - set timelines - keep it business like - and never make it personal - no one then will be surprised by any "surprises"

Was/is Glencoe really a suitable place for a "trailcentre"? The soil is shit for trail building in that area, you're always going to have a lot of erosion issues down to bedrock - and bedrock trails are rarely trailcentre suitable (loads of people really struggle on the red at Nevis Range). I shudder to think at the bills Ft.Bill has run up flying in gravel to keep the WC track going.

Then there's the exposure issue, not a nice location for coaching unless the weather's spot on.

CYB is a long way from any major centres of population, which is clearly why that is so unpopular.

Glencoe is never going to be a trailcentre in the traditional sense; much like the Nevis Red is not a trailcentre trail; however, it is only about an hour and a half from Glasgow...with the uplift, views and close proximity to gems such as Kinlochleven and Fort William, with suitable development the area could be a viable mtb holiday destination, with enough varied riding for a week and then some.

However, with unscrupulous, exploitative and rude behavior being in abundance, I'm sorry to say that without some major changes, this potential will never become a reality.

[i]CYB is a long way from any major centres of population, which is clearly why that is so unpopular. [/i]

But its rideable under most conditions and really not that far from a lot of the population. Whereas Glencoe is a windswept remote place only near to Glasgow and just has a DH track.

I rode it in the summer, and as a non-DHer wouldn't bother going back.

Big mountain Scotland > sounds like you put in a
bloody big effort despite some difficult conditions

It's a shame to hear about this as glen Coe comes
over as a chilled / cool / friendly place in ski
circles ....

Guess ill be sticking to my local resort !!

Sounds like you need to flog your bike and hire a lawyer and probably a shrink while you're at it. Bleating on the Singletrack Forum isn't going to get you anywhere. IMHO. Even when I used to ski many years ago I would drive straight past Glencoe and on to the Nevis range. Can't think why I'd want to do any different for MTB unless it was something special. Pure dead fantasy big man. Time to move on.

Having had a season pass there the winter before and taken part in the coe cup, I was highly impressed by the overall vibe and glad to promote the place... who knows, maybe it was simply taxing times with delays from the previous winters storms and nerves from the gamble they took with accommodation... maybe a case of right place, wrong time.

The failed promises, misunderstandings and departmental differences I can forgive... after all, no one is perfect, but refusing to pay after all I did is sickening.

As for you Tommygun... are you by any chance a samaritan 😀 ?

Sorry it's taken so long to post a response Tom. Wasn't sure whether to or not as felt it may just fan the flames of whatever injustice you feel you have been dealt but you make some pretty serious accusations against our staff (none of whom own a SAAB by the way) which I felt needed defended.

For those interested I spoke with Tom in the Spring of 2012 about him running a guiding and coaching business from the centre. We agreed a rent of £75 per week to cover renting the large office (this included telephone and electricity). Initially business was very quiet for Tom as he was just developing his business so we came to an agreement that he could work on the track (using our tools and equipment) for 1 day a week to cover his rent. A few weeks later we agreed that he could work more days while he was quiet and bank these for later in the year when he expected to be busier. At this stage and at other stages throughout the summer we made it very clear that we were not in a position to pay for any extra work carried out. In fact I had numerous conversations with Tom to try and direct him to spend time marketing and looking for clients rather than working on the track something that never happened. We did what we could to help him find clients through providing links on our website and promoting his business through Facebook and this certainly bore some fruit for him later in the summer.
Tom was unfortunately made homeless during the summer and we allowed him to stay onsite for what was meant to be a short period while he got himself sorted out. Unfortunately this short period turned into months and eventually we had to ask him to leave just before the start of the ski season so that we could get the office set up for ski school. No rent or payment of any sort was requested from Tom during this period for staying onsite as we were trying to help him back on his feet.
On the work that Tom did on the track we were delighted with it and those of you that got a chance to ride it will have seen the effort and commitment he put in which we massively appreciated. However the original brief was always that we had to be able to get the ATV vehicle up the track for emergency rider evacuation and in most cases Tom achieved this however in some instances features were built that caused problems for vehicle access. This did cause some stress with our staff who couldn't get up the hill and in a number of instances re-building of features to allow vehicles up had to be carried out.

The great news this year is that the digger has now been down to deepen drainage ditches and repair erosion from the winter and the SDA, Glencoe staff and volunteers have been working hard on the track for the last 2 weeks to tidy up after the digger and build new features.

Sorry this post is almost as long as Tom's but to summarise, we do not owe Tom any money, we supported him and his new business last year as best we could and his description of our staff is certainly not one that I or our many thousand customers and partners would recognise. Tom it is unfortunate that you have chosen to air "your story" in such a public manner as I had hoped that we could continue to work together again this year to turn Glencoe into the great biking venue that I know it can be.

So, to summarise, basically there is no future in the red dh whatsover, as it will always be potentially an access road? Or have I read that wrong?.

Hopefully a huge future in it but also a big challenge developing a great bike track on a pretty rugged bit of hill while providing a safe ATV evacuation route for injured riders. After lot's of trial and error and with the best brains from the SDA on the case we are now sure we are moving in the right direction.

SDA will be riding it next weekend, let's see what the riders say about it!!!

Oof just in time for lunch 🙂

Certainly there is some truth in what Andy is saying, however, it was not agreed that it would be one day a week~ can you imagine just how pathetic progress would've been if we'd agreed to that?

What's more, I clearly remember Andy saying if I were to accrue more days than the rent of the office, he could look into putting me on the payroll, though in fairness, he did mention this was not the preferred outcome. At this time, I stated I didn't want to take the piss, so when I finally tallied up my days, I took 10 off (i.e. £750) as goodwill and offered several payment options.

In the end, we did agree that it would pay this sesaons rent, but I think it's fairly obvious why I'm not returning.

Lets have a quick look at things that were originally proposed and agreed:

Red track finished, with berms and rollers built by engineering team by May

Pump track next to carpark in time for 2012 Macavalanche, once again built by engineering team

Cliffy lift open for Big Mountain Tours by June

I could go on...

i want to know abou the threatening chap in the saab. The rest is just trimmings.

Sounds an awful shame and a lost opportunity for both sides, as well as the potential users.
Maybe sitting down with a third party with slightly less interest to go through the issues, and try and work out a solution might be worth a go. Obviously both of you seem to have put a fair bit of effort into this in your various ways, and it would be a shame to see it go to waste.

it's a beautiful place.

webcam this morning:

[img] [/img]

maybe you need some sunny yellow filters over the webcams?

So it's just the engineering team who are a bunch of ****s?
A decent, challenging bike trail does not make a very good access road for an ATV. It'll be one or the other, not both. Rethink and start again.

he could look into putting me on the payroll

So he was to look into it then, never actually agreeing to put you on the payroll?

So he was to look into it then, never actually agreeing to put you on the payroll?

Interpret that how you see fit...

Best thing that could happen is that the Mods delete this post, and the two guys agree to differ.

As for you Tommygun... are you by any chance a samaritan ?

😆

Two sides to every story...

Lets have a quick look at things that were originally proposed and agreed:

Red track finished, with berms and rollers built by engineering team by May

Pump track next to carpark in time for 2012 Macavalanche, once again built by engineering team

Cliffy lift open for Big Mountain Tours by June

I could go on...

Response from Andy on this would be nice...

Did I imagine it, or was there a "Thread Closed" on this one a few minutes ago?

holy unlocked locked thread, batman!

Bizzare way of dealing with it but I've just gone to get a coffee from the machine and I have a single chorley cake left in my desk.

I'm ready now so please continue but I'd like a request for more information on the heavy in the Saab.

The heavy in the Saab could be purely coincidental~ I have no hard evidence linking that incident to the resort; however, given the events of the day, the body language of certain people the next day and the fact that sometime later, I saw the same car parked in Caol, where many of the resorts management live, I'm trusting my instincts on this one.

For the record, I don't think Andy had anything to do with this.

[quote=edlong ]Did I imagine it, or was there a "Thread Closed" on this one a few minutes ago?
Aye - but think of the click-count.

>Even when I used to ski many years ago I would drive straight past Glencoe and on to the Nevis range.<

How very weird 😉

If I were the OP, I wouldn't have rested until I'd figured out who the Saab belonged to; completely unexpected aggression such as he describes is very unlikely to be coincidental. It's like something from the Wild West. Blimey.

Did I imagine it, or was there a "Thread Closed"

Good question

It was reopened as both sides of the argument have been behaving reasonably and also because the issue of trail facilities and their management is clearly a relevant issue for mountain bikers. However, the behaviour of other contributors who seem to think it's a suitable topic to degrade with their comments are likely to be the reason for any future thread closure.

If you have anything relevant and helpful to add to the debate then please do so. If you don't then please sit back and by all means read on.

Are you......

I reckon the usual tedious xenophobic "humour" will get this otherwise interesting thread closed again, bland (see Mark's comment).

It was merely a question!

But I'll remove it to keep the peace and in fairness didnt read past half way on page 1

I went to the police and tried to explain the situation, but was a bit confused about the digits of the number plate, so didn’t really get anywhere

sometime later, I saw the same car parked in Caol

I presume, when you saw the "same" car parked, you confirmed this (to yourself) with reference to it having a reg. no. very similar to the one you incorrectly noted at the time of the incident. If that is the case, why didn't you go back to Plod with this information?

It was definitely the same car... parked in Caol shopping centre, where my car was also parked: the driver (who I recognized) got in, reversed out and drove off without noticing me.

In hindsight, I should've gone to Plod, as I did now have the correct number, but at the time, I was with my parents, whom I didn't want to worry.

hmmm, think nobeer has a point, if you are going to do this seriously, you need a separate road for your atv's that's not part of the red.
why would anybody waste fuel to come to the track, if its potentially just been wrecked by an atv for whatever reason.

as for the current red situation, once the sda roadshow has been and gone this weekend, who is managing the repairs and development for afters.

oh, and from experience, some of your staff's attitude does actually suck.

having said that, good luck anyway, i thinks to make it pay, you will need it

Seems to me both parties have missed a great opportunity, given that most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB's than in winter from the skiing, due to the heavy cost of snow management and the fact the equipment costs have already been taken into account.

Sounds like the Engineering 'team' need to be brought up to speed on the business benefits and if necessary incentivised to make it happen, teaching some of them to ride might not be a bad thing, in this day and age there is no room for negative workplace politics especially with the huge pool of would be workers that would replace them at the drop of a hat.

I think it was a mistake for the OP to expose this to the scrutiny of folk on here and my counsell would be for one last go at reconciliation and get this removed, it serves none of us well, other than maybe the click rate of STW towers. having said that i had no idea they had even opened Glencoe to bikes so i guess there is no such thing as bad publicity, if they do get their act together and build on last years progress.

Talk to anyone in the outdoor world about business generally last year being the worse year in living memory so not exactly a bellwether season.

fisgard - Member

oh, and from experience, some of your staff's attitude does actually suck.

+1. Nevis range staff aren't always the most welcoming but at least they're not actual ****s.

most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB's

LOL!

Most resorts make so little money from MTBs in the summer that local businesses have to front-up cash to the lift operators to get them to open at all.

Always two sides, and I'm going to sit well on the fence.
All I will say is Tom is a genuinely committed guy, which was obvious from the Hot Diggity weekend (still one of the best weekends EVER). Andy equally keen to make the most of what the difficult Glencoe landscape has to offer and make Glencoe financially viable.
And we found the staff really great.
At Nevis Range:
"Do you think you could get our tandem on the lifts?"
"No." end of conversation.

At Glencoe the same day as we passed on the way home:
"Do you think you could get our tandem on the lifts?"
"Erm, never tried, but we'll sure as hell have a go".
And they did, and it worked, even stopping the lift at the bottom to check the balance, and again at the top and helping get Nancy off. And the rest is Glencoe history.

Such a shame its not worked out for everyone. Yes GC isn't Nevis, and as I understand it won't get the funding that Nevis does, but both times we were there with the bikes the vibe was great.

Fingers crossed everything gets smoothed out.
Rob

whitegoodman - Member
Seems to me both parties have missed a great opportunity, given that most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB's than in winter from the skiing, due to the heavy cost of snow management and the fact the equipment costs have already been taken into account.

Sounds like the Engineering 'team' need to be brought up to speed on the business benefits and if necessary incentivised to make it happen, teaching some of them to ride might not be a bad thing, in this day and age there is no room for negative workplace politics especially with the huge pool of would be workers that would replace them at the drop of a hat.

I think it was a mistake for the OP to expose this to the scrutiny of folk on here and my counsell would be for one last go at reconciliation and get this removed, it serves none of us well, other than maybe the click rate of STW towers. having said that i had no idea they had even opened Glencoe to bikes so i guess there is no such thing as bad publicity, if they do get their act together and build on last years progress.

Talk to anyone in the outdoor world about business generally last year being the worse year in living memory so not exactly a bellwether season.

STW in one paragraph. Someone who didn't even know there were trails at Glencoe, but will offer an opinion anyway!. 😉