Hi,
I'm planning on building a BFe or Soul in the spring. Head says Soul, heart says BFe.... Cy says Soul too
I have a Fox RL120 that would work well on the Soul, but how well would it go on the BFe? What fork would be ideal? Bike will be general purpose
but with possibility of long days out and rough stuff....
Most of the other bits will be lightweight stuff so not too worried about weight.
Thanks
Andrew.
As opposed to the forks that don't go on the front?
If you're thinking of using the fox forks then no way do you want/need a BeFe. The soul is plenty strong enough for hardcore trail riding. The BeFe is more focused on DH abuse.
Don't see why that fork should be a problem. If I was buying a new fork for a BFe I'd probably go for a Maxle Revelation.
I have the same thoughts BFe or Soul. Really a Soul would be a better bike for me. I much prefer the blue of the BFe. Problem is I have an orange SS and though I don't mind black I'm rather fed up with the current UK frame trend for black/grey/silver. Really want a Soul in BFe blue.
BTW - if I ever get the money sorted my BFe will be making do with a Pace RC40 (100mm to 120mm).
Just looking at the specs on the Soul and the BFe and there is something I don't quite get.
The BFe uses more Reynolds 631 in the main frame than the Soul. While the BFe is stronger and heavier, if you look at the Reynolds website, you'll see that 631 has a significantly lower Ultimate Tensile Strength than 853.
How come then they use what looks to be a weaker (and cheaper) material for a stronger frame?
My only guess is that they are using much thicker tubesets to give a stronger frame, with in particular better dent resitance compared to the thin walled 853 Soul. In this case, they are sort of choosing cheap and strong as their two features, whereas the Soul is built as strong and light (but not cheap).
It seems that in many ways, the Soul is actually the better quality frame. I wonder how much more expensive (and thus lighter) it would be to produce an equivalent strength Soul.
I wonder how much more expensive (and thus lighter) it would be to produce an equivalent strength Soul.
The original BFe was, IIRC, 853 and was the same price as the Soul - the newer model is significantly less expensive.
From reading the Cotic website it looks like the 631 (which is used on the headtube of the Soul as well) allows the longer travel forks, etc. It also states that they are thicker walled.
For the OP I would have thought the Soul was more appropriate.
Bikie - don't you like the orange? I'd love one myself (instead of black that I got). Mind you I like that Gritstone BFe too!
My BFe has got Pikes on at the mo, but i find it a little low at the front without a couple of headset spacers under the stem. When i get some more cash i'll be getting some Lyrics which i think will be prefect, I don't see any point in buying a long travel bike built to take 160mm and then fitting less to it, if you want less buy the Soul.
Lyriks 
Fox 36 Talas - please - just a bit pricey (but aren't all great forks at the moment)
110-130-160 switchable - perfect for anything you want to do on a BFe
Oh, 631 top tube and seatube on the new BFe are HUGE compared to the 853 ones on the Soul
I have 120mm marzocchi z1's on my bfe. I did have them at 130mm but dropped the travel down 10mm and it feels a bit better for it.
I don't see any point in buying a long travel bike built to take 160mm and then fitting less to it, if you want less buy the Soul.
Its the same dimensions as a soul i think, so its not specifically a long travel bike. Rides better with shorter forks unless your riding downhill in the alps or somewhere like that. Depends what you do with it i guess, but jumps and the like are horrible with 160mm's worth of travel squishing about at the front of your bike.
If your building it with light weight stuff then get the soul id say.
I do like the orange frame and there is a good chance that if I do go with a Soul that it would be the orange one. However I much much prefer the blue and really aren't keen on having two orange bikes.
Dont worry, its only a colour. Get some black hammerite and paint some stripes on it if you want it to look different. Cant see why colour would be a deciding factor really.
59 - cos I weigh that much that the heavier BFe will make bugger all difference. Even if I lost the fully built up weight of the bike I'd probably be healthier if I could lose another stone.
So the BFe has a 1 degree slacker head tube but as I probably won't be using any more than 120mm I think the handling will still be quick enough for me.
So yes colour is a deciding factor for me all else being equal or at least accepted.
And am I really going to spend £500 quid on a new frame and then bugger it up with some Hammerite? Oh yeah I never thought of that!
So the BFe has a 1 degree slacker head tube
AFAIK (and I think Cy has been on here to confirm) the Soul and BFe have the same geometry; the angles on the Cotic website are stated at different fork lengths and sag.
They always used to have the same geometry, which I though was a bit weird. Raising the front end slackens it, but also raises the BB and slackens the seat angle. I've had a quick ride on a mates and in the real world it didn't seem to alter it too much so maybe it was decided that it wasn't worth the expense to change the geometry.
As far as colour goes I know orange offer(ed?) a service where you could get your new orange bike painted to any of the standard orange colours if you didn't like the stock colour.
Surprised the likes of cotic, dialled, ragley etc.. don't offer this. Or maybe they do & we just don't know about it?
Looking at the geometry the BFe should be ok with your for but wont be optimum. The angles quoted are slightly different and with forks of different sizes but if you work on the idea that when you loose an inch of fork travel the angles steepen by 1° then the head angles will be pretty close and the seat angle on the BFe will be steeper. Having said all that the geometry quoted on the site is with 130mm forks on the BFe and 100 on the soul. So with your forks the geometry will be somewhere between the two no matter which frame you buy.
BFe Geometry
Frame Size XS Small Medium Large
Seat Tube (centre-top) 14.5" 16" 17.5" 19"
Top Tube Length 22 22.75" 23.25" 24"
Head Angle 69° 69° 69° 69°
Seat Angle 72° 72° 72° 72°
BB Height 12.25" 12.25" 12.25"
Head Tube Length 100mm 100mm 110mm 120mm
Usual Height Range ? ? ? ?
All measurements based on 130mm travel fork sagged 40mm
Soul Geometry
Frame Size Small Medium Large
Seat Tube (centre-top) 16" 17.5" 19"
Top Tube Length 22.75" 23.25" 24"
Head Angle 70° 70° 70°
Seat Angle 73° 73° 73°
BB Height 12" 12" 12"
Head Tube Length 100mm 110mm 120mm
Usual Height Range upto 5'9" 5'8" - 6'1" 5'10" - 6'3"
Stem Length 60-90mm 60-100mm 70-100mm
All measurements based on 100mm travel fork sagged 25mm
__________________________________________________________________________
Isnt it possible to change your forks to run 140mm?
With regard to Orange bikes and paint options. Even though Orange source their STD tuber HTs from abroad, as they do build FS frames in the UK They obviously have their own paint shop or use a UK painter. Thus they can offer the custom service. I assume Cy gets his frames bought in pre-painted? If not I, and no doubt others, would be interested to see a bespoke paint price and delivery time.
Op - I thought long and hard about whether to get the BFe or Soul to replace my Curtis (like you my head said BFe and heart said Soul) and spoke to Paul @ Cotic regarding both frames and my riding preferences and in the end plumped for the Soul, the more I thought about the BFe and where I ride the less I wanted it. Glad I went for the Soul over the BFe, the Soul isnt a skinny, light XC machine like my DeKerf and looks like it can take a bit of punishment not as much as the BFe but more than enough for general riding with a set of U Turn Pikes or similar.
Go for the Soul.
Marz AM-SL1 (120-160mm)) on mine, a few years old now, never thought about replacing either fork or frame. Used for general purpose, long days and rough stuff.
As someone said earlier, why buy a 160-capable frame and not give it a 160-capable fork?
(Having said that, I've hammered mine all over the place and only realised at the bottom the fork was dialled down to 120!)
Morning all. Few things to clear up here!
Firstly, the BFe and the Soul share the same geometry, they are simply quoted at what we consider appropriate fork lengths. We have a slidey geometry gadget in development which will let you fiddle with this more accurately. The website figures aren't completely accurate on the angles because it's very variable in terms of fork length and set up, but also people tend to glaze over when you get into tenths of a degree 
Now, as stated above, the Soul is a tough bike especially now it's been beefed up for 140mm forks and exceeding the CEN regs. However, that doesn't come cheap but the money's all gone places. It's very light, got all the lovely finishing touches like the cool dropouts, has lot's of sticker options and a lovely Hope QR all chucked in.
When the BFe was full 853 and the same price as the Soul, the sales dropped right off when the exchange rates drove the prices up. I felt a more affordable model was needed, but didn't want to just do a 'cheap' Soul, and the BFe needed to come down in price to be more competitive in the jumpy/4X frame market. As they're both the same shape, I decided to kill two birds with one stone, so I've mixed in some 631, but kept the 853 down tube for weight reasons, slimmed down the seatstays to for weight again, and to make the ride a little more civilised, and gone to laser cut dropouts, branded QR and no sticker options. All these things both offset the extra weight of the 631 required to maintain front end strength, and help drop the price by 25%. So, the BFe is only 50grms heavier than the old one, just as strong, but 25% less expensive and not only makes a great hardcore mucking about bike, but in the bigger sizes makes an ace entry-level to Cotic hardtail trail bikes. Basically, if you can afford a Soul, it is the better all round trail bike. If you can't afford the Soul and you want a Cotic, or you just have to have blue, the BFe will be great fun, but over 1lb heavier and a bit harsher to ride.
If you want a 2nd hand bfe frame full 853....
stiffee_dave at hotmail dot com.
@Cy - so the addage of Cheap(er) and Strong(er) in the case of the BFe and Light and Strong in the case of the Soul does sort of apply then?
Out of interest, have you ever considered some sort of option where you get a bare frame and sticker kit so that you can then get it painted yourself?
Finally is 953 a viable material for mountain bikes and would you have any plans to build something with that material? That would eliminate the need for painting altogether if the customer so wanted wouldn't it?
I'm obviously not Cy and I know that he, along with others have, debated the 953 saga a few times in the past on here. IMO and it's mainly guess work, though hopefully educated to degree. I think that a 953 frame would probably be just a little too expensive or at least be around the same retail price as the Soda. So what is the advantage? Maybe the ride feel would be slightly different but basically a Soda does exactly what you are asking a 953 Soda to do. If you really wanted a 953 frame it would probably pay to go UK custom and get exactly what you (think) you want.
IMHO of course.
it seems to me that the BFe is a cheaper, more affordable copy of the soul.... and not all that 'hardcore'.
it seems to me that the BFe is a cheaper, more affordable copy of the soul.... and not all that 'hardcore'.
I started off with a Soul, which failed at the head tube and was replaced under warranty with a first batch BFe, and after a few other frames have returned to the fold with a new Soul. I feel reasonably qualified to comment that the BFe is most certainly able to take way more than the Soul; for a start it is about 20% heavier and does feel very different on the trail. Whilst it may not be as hardcore (whatever you definition of 'hardcore' is) in terms of angles, as we all know it will take much longer forks - and will take way more in terms of abuse. If you buy a BFe based thinking you're getting a cheaper, more affordable Soul you'll be missing out on a much lighter, livelier frame.
How do you define hardcore? It's 35% stronger, you can put 160mm forks on it should you so wish, it's got ISCG tabs, and quite different ride character due to the frame stiffness. Like I said, it ain't a cheap Soul, it's something else.
953-wise, I've had a sample made and broke it in 6 weeks. It was lovely, but slightly heavier than the Soda, and more expensive out of the same Taiwanese factory as the original Soda, so little commercial point other than looking even more lovely than a Soda. Reynolds just aren't making any headway in offering suitable MTB tubing, particularly for the seat tube where I broke mine. I haven't bashed the table that hard to get them to sort it given my workload on other frames that sell in actual numbers.
Oh, and I've asked the question on unpainted frames before, and it's just not an option as they're in a container for over 4 weeks from factory to UK, and the atmosphere they're boxed up in over in Asia is pretty humid so they'd not be in a great state upon arrival. One of the reasons we zinc dip the frames prior to finishing is to make sure they're tip top inside and out when they get to us.
We have a slidey geometry gadget in development which will let you fiddle with this more accurately.
Oh yeah, I remember that. It'll probably be added in the coming week to the geek corner of the website, in some form or other.
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