How hard is it to use flat pedals!
Tried on Saturday for the first time in >5 years - no float, kept having to reposition my foot, flew off the pedals doing short jumps and, the things took a chunk out of my shin.
Wholly skill-less episode by me, but I'm struggling to see why anyone would choose flats over clipless...
I learned to ride on flats and so have no reliance on SPDs to keep my feet in contact with the pedals or to pull up on jumps or bunnyhops.
I can ride happily with either, but when using SPDs I hate the feeling of detachment I get when stood on the pedals, caused by float, so I choose flats in preference.
It's counter-intuitive but I feel more attached to the bike with flats than with SPDs.
bakey - MemberWholly skill-less episode by me, but I'm struggling to see why anyone would choose flats over clipless...
You know what? People who're good on flats but have only tried SPDs for a single ride say much the same thing about those 
But, what you've just found is at least one gap in your own skills that was being covered up by your choice of pedals, so that right there is a good reason to spend some time on flats til you stop jumping off the bike and start jumping with it. Your riding on SPDs will almost certainly benefit when you go back to it.
Some people can and some can't ride with them basically. I used SPDs for about 7 years, then tried flats and I loved them on my first play at Innerleithen. Now have been using them since 2006 on both bikes. They do take a few rides to remember to move you your feet with the pedals to grip etc, but you soon don't think about it at all. Ridden with them in Scotland, Alps and Canada. Like I said, just depends on the rider I think, some folk love them some don't. Give a another few tries and if not for you, back to SPDs.
I took to using flats this winter as a good way of keeping my feet warm.
I am now wondering if I will go back to SPDs as I like the big platform feel of flat pedals.
I can ride with either and went through a period of using clips but much prefer flats now.
I do think clips encourage bad technique. If I was doing some kind of XC marathon (not likely) I might go back to clips as they do feel more efficient.
Drop your heels helps if you dont already do it unconciously. That way your pushing the bike allong so if it stops you stop (rather than bouncing off the pedals).
Drop your wrists, rotate your brake levers to be more horisontal which pushes your weight back.
I use Burgtech PH flats, which use bolts for pins! And I don't wear shin pads becasue I never come off them, all in the technique.
Other things to considder, cheep flats are crap, get soemthing metal with replaceable pins. Shoes play a big part, I started with soem karrimoor aproach shoes, swaped for some skate shoes and it was like night and day in terms of grip.
love flats - gives you far more confidence knowing you can put a foot out/down. Loads more foot positions etc
What flat pedal and shoe combo have you got? DMR V12's or Easton Flatboys with Shimano AM40's are super grippy, you'll probably still get holes in your shins for a while though. Scars are good.
You know what? People who're good on flats but have only tried SPDs for a single ride say much the same thing about thoseBut, what you've just found is at least one gap in your own skills that was being covered up by your choice of pedals, so that right there is a good reason to spend some time on flats til you stop jumping off the bike and start jumping with it. Your riding on SPDs will almost certainly benefit when you go back to it.
+1 good post.
And yeah, they always will give you a reminder of the downside. Alps last year.
Bakey, I wrote something on the subject for Girl MTN Biker ... you may (or may not) find it interesting.
I tried SPDs for the first time on a proper MTB route this weekend. I've been commuting for a while on them and felt reasonably comfortable using them.
Never fallen over/off so much UPHILL! Soon as I stalled on a muddy/rocky part I was over, even with the loose setting. Granted the Ladybower route was a bit challenging for a first test but still... I'm struggling to see why anyone would choose clipless over flats.
I switched to flats last Autumn. Took a bit of getting used to and did have a few leg/pedal comings together but now love them.
Tried the Candy's again for a couple of weeks and have put the flats back on. Now I've adapted to the flats I never lose grip and find them as efficient as the clipless pedals.
I simply can't see myself going back to clipless.
Tried on Saturday for the first time in >5 years - no float, kept having to reposition my foot, flew off the pedals doing short jumps and, the things took a chunk out of my shin.
As already said, you're describing a shortcoming in your technique and skill, not a shortcoming in a component/set-up.
Having your feet in a 'correct' position on the (flat) pedal means that it's far more likely that your weight is better distributed and that you are working with and responding to the bike, rather than being taken along for the ride and relying on a clip to keep you from being ejected.
All of us learn to ride on flat pedals. I have yet to see a young child clipped in whilst their parent is teaching them ..
But switched over to spd `s a few years ago. It took alot of getting used to, having to commit to things that normally would have had you dabbing. That said, last winter I went back to flats because of the wet slippery trails .. once again, they take some getting used to.
A couple weeks practice and just as comfortable on them as spd `s.
Both spd `s and flats take a bit of practice.
Thanks chaps, I'll persevere for a bit longer.
Pedals are Wellgo B38s and shoes are AM40s. I'll move the brake levers as suggested and, as thisisnotaspoond also advises, I'll drop my wrists, although I was consciously dropping my heels.
If you see a Superlight been ridden by someone with bleeding shins in north Wales, that'll be me...
As Rewski said earlier, the pedal and shoe is very important.
Cheap pedals will always have you feet slip all over the place.
I use Atomlab Aircorps and Vans Skinks. Mega!!!!
just made the move myself after years of spd'ing
so far so good, loving the feeling of security that i can step off when i want, has made me ride harder.
am being bounced off the pedals a bit but that is just crap technique, must try harder. heels down and seat down a bit has made a huge difference, push from behind rather than from above. not lost any skin yet but sure it won't be long
wellgo v12s and some airwalk skate shoes
I use the same shoes as yerself (AM40's) and, after experimenting with Wellgos, DMR's, *ank Bros pedals, I found these MN01 pedals by HT components http://www.ht-components.com/ht_portal/product/list?cname=pedal Superstars also do exactly the same pedal.
FWIW, I spent years on SPD's & ATACs, but once I'd learnt how to ride and get air with flats, I realised all SPD's did was to let me get away with rubbish footwork - I'm not a racer, so never really used the 'pull up on the pedal' option that SPD's give you.
Once you've got your preferred flat pedal shoe combo sorted, it's just down to technique, and if an old f*** like me can learn this, anyone can - and (famous last words) I haven't had any shin or calf spiking in about 2 years of regular Peak D riding. Sounds like you're already dropping your heels. Only thing I'd add, is that if you really want to fast forward your technique, get a skills session with a MTB coach that uses flats. Oh, and if you want to get some air, check out MBUK's Doddy's guide to bunnyhopping on YouTube.
HTH
Forget the perfect shoe/pedal combo. If the technique is right you can use anything.
Find somewhere quiet and practise rear wheel lifts, eventually moving to bunny hop. The feet position used for that is the same you need to keep your feet on the pedals over rough roots, rocks or off drops.
Chicks dig scars!
I've ridden SPDS for as long as I can remember but since buying an Orange Blood, I've been using flats with varying success.
I posted a thread a few days back asking about pin heights on flats, can I ask here, what do people find works best, same length all over, or higher or shorter at front/back/sides?..
Sorry for the hijack!
I found swapping from etnies trainers to five tens a good thing with flats. Five tens are super grippy, v confidence inspiring.
I've ridden SPDS for as long as I can remember but since buying an Orange Blood, I've been using flats with varying success.I posted a thread a few days back asking about pin heights on flats, can I ask here, what do people find works best, same length all over, or higher or shorter at front/back/sides?..
Sorry for the hijack!
HoratioHufnagel - MemberForget the perfect shoe/pedal combo. If the technique is right you can use anything.
True that but when you're learning, sticky shoes can help paper over the cracks a bit. Doesn't have to be expensive though, people are obsessed with Five Tens but my old Vans are perfectly good. Some shoes really do suck for grip though, just unsuitable sole profiles.
Forget the perfect shoe/pedal combo. If the technique is right you can use anything.
I think that is only true to a point! There is a reason why the likes of Sam Hill use ultra sticky Five-Tens.
There is a reason why the likes of Sam Hill use ultra sticky Five-Tens.
So it's not just the bucket load of cash he gets paid for wearing them?
But why use those when he could probably get paid even more by shimano to wear their shoes, or paid by Vans to wear their shoes etc etc
I'm not saying they are the be-all and end-all, just that they are very good shoes to wear if you ride flats. Plus, they are seriously comfy.
I use AM40's with MG1's and have no grip issues but fancy some slightly more pimp pedals like Straitlines or Point One.
They're also made from cardboard, maybe thats why Hill famously doesn't trian in the wet?
I see no point in spending huge amounts of cash on pedals when Wellgo make awesome pedals that last for ages at £25.00. One set of mine are about 5 years olds.
I went to SPDS almost immediately when I started playing this game a few years ago. Even with practice, I was crap with spds (low speed topples/ cant get going again if I stop on climbs etc etc)
Went to flats a few months ago and I was horrified at first. (aaarrrgg I have just gone over a lip and I am no longer in contact with the bike..! )
After a few rides though, I know they actually suit me well. I feel able to move around the bike more, and I can hang a "safety leg" out when sliding around corners knowing I wont struggle to clip in again!
Horses for courses, certainly. i wouldnt go back to SPDs.
Technique is definitely key but it's easy to be put off flats by a combination of poor technique, poor shoes and poor pedals! However as you're on B-38s and in AM40s it's not a gear problem. Heavy feet, light hands, heels down (technically there are times when you don't want both heels down but that tends to sort itself out naturally), ankles relaxed, ride from your hips.
and PUMP!
I've used both, spds for my 'middle period' of mtbing, but back to flats for the last 10 years. I would go back to spds now. I feel more connected with the bike on flats, more free and find them more fun. 5 10s or similar do help, but i don't think it's just because they're more grippy. It's more that because they're so sticky they can have a stiffer sole therefore feel more secure on rough terrain, help more efficient pedaling and stop your feet getting as tired.
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