I have a lovely old Pentax MX, and could use it pretty well. Fully manual, only needed batteries for the meter. Loved it. Along came digital, and a handful of compacts later, and with the last film having sat in the Pentax for at least four years now unfinished, and i'm ready for an SLR again. (Actually I was before, but they're not cheap). Had a quick play in Jessops the other day with the Canon 1000 and 450, the Nikon 3000 and d60. Think I prefer the way the controls are laid out on the Canon. Main trouble with both is all the nonsense on the display, is there anything a bit simpler around. I know all the f stop gubbins already. Anyone used the Pentax or Olympus offerings?
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First digital SLR? Simplicity would be good.
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Posted 2 years ago #
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Main trouble with both is all the nonsense on the display
just stick some tape over it, or don't look
Posted 2 years ago # -
if you have some pentax lenses then get one the lenses will fit (check backwards compatibility though)
if i was buying again i'd by olympus
you are unlikely to find anything 'simple' and they are all pretty much of a muchness*. comes down to which one you are most comfortable using.
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*Nikon is bestest
Posted 2 years ago # -
I assume you can turn the screen off, that should do it. You can get M42 adapters if you want to make your life really difficult.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nikon user here too, but its mainly aesthetics and build quality on my D80 that swung me over. Now I use Nikon I couldn't be without the wireless flash (creative lighting in nikon jargon) that it offers.
Modern cameras in the middle segment (D80 or now D90 and equivalent models from other brands) are probably what you want to aim for. Why? Well the cheaper models (D60 etc) don't have the manual controls as easy to access as on the lower-mid range models. My camera alows me to set it from full auto to full manual easily, or anywhere in between. It has enough dials and buttons to easily set every option by just holding down a button and spinning a dial. The lower models often need you to delve into menus to set stuff more often.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Nikon D80/D90 or better?
All the "nonsense on the display" is summarised on an LCD panel at the top:
Is that any better?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I use the Pentax DSLR's as I already had a large collection of Pentax lenses that could be used on them. I also tend to prefer the handling of the Pentax cameras as well so it made the transition to digital pretty easy.
Do you have any decent K-mount lenses you can re-use? If so are they KA or K mount (i.e. do they have an auto aperture setting)? If they're pre-KA then one of the earlier Pentax DSLR's (like the DS2) might be a good option as they won't be too expensive 2nd hand and they're more compatible with the oldest lenses than the newer cameras. The newer cameras can still be used but fewer metering and flash options are available.
I've still got a DS as backup and for use with some of the older lenses, although I still use even some M42 screw mount lenses with my K10D as well.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Mrmichaelwright talks sense. Don't worry about the quality of the pictures they take, most people are unlikely to stretch the camera to it's limits in ways that can be compensated for by moving to another brand.
Do think about whether you want to use your existing lenses.
Do think about how the camera feels to use to you, more than most other things.
Consider whether dust sealing and water resistance might be important to you- it's the thing I miss most after switching fom Olympus.You can turn the information panel off on cameras, you know, if you're suffering from overload. All dslr's have more shooting modes than you ever want to see, but they also all have manual.
Sadly, none will function without batteries, unlike an OM-1.
Posted 2 years ago # -
but they also all have manual
As CHB mentions, the manual mode on entry-level cameras often means going through the information screen on the back to set aperture and speed, which can be a bit rubbish and fiddly:
Nikon D60
Canon 450pics from http://www.dpreview.com
Posted 2 years ago # -
As CHB mentions, the manual mode on entry-level cameras often means going through the information screen on the back to set aperture and speed, which can be a bit rubbish:
that's a bit stink then, isn't it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The old MX is fully manual, so my lenses are K, not KA. Looking through the viewfinder I can see shutter speed, aperture, focus, and metering. Never felt the need for much more. Not looking to reuse old stuff (although a good niche product might be to make a digital back to retro fit on to old SLRs). Just would rather have a bit of simplicity. Too many extra modes I'm never likely to use, and the back panel seems to be offering a tutorial on some of the ones i'm looking at, rather than anything useful. I guess i just need to play with them a bit more to get to know how to turn off all the flashy stuff.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sadly, none will function without batteries, unlike an OM-1.
if you carry a spare this is a non-issue beyond the weight. Most other new-fangled gear like phones, computers, washing machines, TVs, lights and microwaves also perform disappointingly without electricity. You get used to it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The old MX is fully manual, so my lenses are K, not KA
Might be worth looking for a second hand Pentax DS2 then. I use K-lenses with mine and shoot much as I did with the film cameras (I've had a couple of MX's and still have a few Pentax film cameras, including a 645) i.e. aperture priority using the aperture ring on the lens.
There are some limitations on things like metering modes (e.g. matrix meterings needs KA or later but you've still got spot and centre weighted) and flash modes but generally most of the Pentax kit still works, even back to screw mount (although you'll need to stop-down for metering).
Posted 2 years ago # -
Midlife, your last post just confirms what I said. You need to step up to the D90 (or equivalent in other brands) level. These give you exposure info in viewfinder and are a LOT less fiddly to change settings on than the entry level DSLRs (which assume you are going to use them on green camera full auto idiot mode 90% of the time).
Posted 2 years ago # -
if you carry a spare this is a non-issue beyond the weight. Most other new-fangled gear like phones, computers, washing machines, TVs, lights and microwaves also perform disappointingly without electricity. You get used to it.
Until you run out of it. Then it's a pain in the arse.
Simon,
I would have thought that carrying a spare would not have been sufficient for your needs.Posted 2 years ago # -
Until you run out of it. Then it's a pain in the arse.
I would have thought that carrying a spare would not have been sufficient for your needs.in 5 years of digital photography I have run out of power one time when I'd forgotten to charge the spare. On my D300 I reckon one battery is good for about 1000 shots and my max on a ride has been ~700.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Pentax K-m it is then or even better the soon to be released K-x (looks like a good'un)
Could push the boat out and get a K-7 or an older K20/Samsung GX20
(Samsung use Pentax mount and are almost identical)Jessops don't sell Pentax due to them not renewing their credit line, don't blame them either with the state of Jessops finances
Posted 2 years ago # -
Looking through the viewfinder I can see shutter speed, aperture, focus, and metering. Never felt the need for much more.
There are a couple more to consider for digital, even in fully manual mode.
Namely white balance and ISO.Also if you are using auto-focus then AF-mode is fairly important and if you use auto-metering then the metering mode is also required*
Flash power is also important if you're using the on-board flash.
* I know you said you use manual mode, but some people are more manual than others.
Posted 2 years ago # -
the back panel seems to be offering a tutorial on some of the ones i'm looking at, rather than anything useful
This can be changed on some, for instance the pretty D60 display above with the pointless graphic of the aperture can be changed to be a more functional, utilitarian view:
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've found that, despite being fairly profficient with manual mode on my compact, to the point of installing the CHDK firmware extension and using it fully, my 20D has so far produced a few AMAZING shots, but mostly highlighted my inabilities One thing that is refreshing, is the fact that I have one spare battery for it, but I've yet to empty the first, let alone the spare when out shooting.M42 adapters and manual lenses are MUCHOS fun and produce some amazing results for £5!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Funny all this talk of spare batteries when upgrading from a film SLR. I don't remember ever shooting 20 rolls of film in a day with mine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Olympus user here.
Lens selection is a bit limited and if you're a fish-eye freak they can be pricey. The standard Olympus lens are *extremely* good - some of the best standard glass and not expensive for it.
Four-thirds used to suffer more noise at higher ISO - but the newer Four-thirds sensors have improved noise reduction and cope much better.
Dedicated flash selection also limited.
But all said - you only buy this gear the once.
The main selling point for me of four-thirds is the overall reduced size and weight. I'm using an E420 with the 25mm pancake lens and this is small for an SLR.Micro four-thirds is also emerging and these diddy little cameras are also very capable.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Hello
I use a Pentax K200 body and old KA mount lenses that I had from my old p30n / k1000 manual... Got some very nice shots with them too. As others have stated metering modes may be restricted with K lenses but I really like pentax build / ease of use / and availability of nice lenses off ebay at often cheapo prices - Oh along with sony / pentax have their shake reduction built into camera bodies and not the expensive way that canikons do....
I highly rate pentax - have a look on the pentaxuser website too for far more detailed advice than i can give ! Think pentax dslrs def underexpose the shots so factor that into your decision - albeit better than overexposing !
paul
Posted 2 years ago # -
Lots to think about, I'll have to have a trip to a decent shop or two. Our high street here is Jessops or Argos. Like the idea of the D90, but not the price. Also a bit of residual Pentax loyalty, so will have to at least try a K-m or K-7 for feel. Dust and water are something to consider, so will give Olympus a play too. See, I haven't really narrowed it down at all!
Posted 2 years ago # -
vinnyeh
Mrmichaelwright talks sense
you're new here then?
Posted 2 years ago # -
another vote for olympus. Got an e500 and three lenses and I've had some great results for the last 3 years
Posted 2 years ago # -
Some of the Pentax bodies are also dust/water sealed - my K10D is, not sure which others though.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You're quite right MLCs - get into a shop and pick up a few cameras - it's the only way. Most of the cameras recommended so far will give you everything you need, so it's just a case of finding out which system feels right to you.
Having said that, I'd highly recommend a 2nd hand Nikon D200 (or D300 if you can stretch to it). As sson as you move up and away from the 'prosumer' cameras, you get far better dust / waterproofing - I've used D200s / 300s in lashing rain and snow with no issues. You also get the benefit of Nikon's Creative Lighting System as mentioned above - wireless flash in short.
Buying into Canon or Nikon also gives you a massive choice of lenses, third party manufactured or otherwise, and a wealth of 2nd hand choices too.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The new Pentax DSLRs are pretty good, now that the long period of Pentax in limbo has finished now that they're wholely owned by Hoya they're really pushing to get back into the market.
I've had a K20D for about 6 months and I like it a lot. The body is very well sealed and holds nicely. The new K7 is supposed to be another level beyond the K20D and has addressed some of the faults. Like all modern Pentax it does tend to underexpose a bit, but I've got some nice photos out of it and you can always adjust the exposure to compensate. I have a 10-20 Sigma zoom and the DA* 50-135 2.8 lens (which is very good) and am using it for general, out cycling and architectural photography.
If you like Pentax, and you've got lenses already then why not give one a go?
The only problem is I'd quite like a M9, but thats not realistic for a while.Posted 2 years ago # -
warning: do NOT handle a D200/300 unless you have a reasonable expectation of buying one. People can witter on about film, pinhole cameras, bridge cameras etc etc but once you've laid hands on a machine that can give you 6 properly exposed shots a second - that begs to be used and used - you won't want to mess with toy cameras an longer :o) I had a D60 briefly before I gave it to my daughter, and it seemed like a real slug in comparison, and despite having fast card would slow to one shot a second after a few exposures. With the D300 it needs a very light touch not to take 2 shots when you press the shutter release. Of course speed isn't all there is to it, the point is, nothing gets in the way of taking pictures. I expect there are Canons just as good.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Question:
Why do people buy DSLRs to use in <quote>"green camera full auto idiot mode 90% of the time"?<quote>
Why..?!
Posted 2 years ago # -
No_eyed_dear: Two answers pick one!
"why do people buy 6 inch full suspension bikes to ride round firetrails with no idea what compression and rebound settings do?
OR
"green camera mode gives very good results and avoids any really bad pictures if you are not familiar with F-stops and apperture or obscure camera settings. Yet you still get the intelligent focus, speed and glass quality of an SLR"
Though I don't personally use it, I know many people with "good" cameras that never take it off full auto.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I attended a workshop by Pascal Baetens in which he referred to P (Program) mode as "Professional" mode. He said "just put your camera on P and forget it". He was not 100% serious, but it does underline that there is a bit of snobbishness about auto modes.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've been thining of buying a DSLR for a while and I sought the opinion of one of my clients who is a pro photographer. He recommended Canon EOS-450D. As I am a noob concerning cameras, I would tend to go with his advice.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Green and P modes are very good for snapshots, but are far too eager to bump the ISO. Using the DSLR as a snapshot camera seems odd at first, but when you realise I carry my camera virtually everywhere, I never know if I'll just want a snapshot or want to put more effort in to a lucky find. I certainly would hate to take out my P&S and then miss a chance for a really nice shot.
Posted 2 years ago #
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