A friend of Mrs Grips has a sort of embryonic business making short promo films, adverts, that kind of thing. He was using a borrowed camera (Panasonic NV GS400) but he wants his own for as cheap as possible.

Only requirement we have is that it has to be able to accept an external mic. He’s using Final Cut Express to edit with if that makes any difference.

Any ideas what to look for and where to look?

A friend of Mrs Grips has a sort of embryonic business making short promo films

😳 Sorry, mis-read that, so nothing to add…

🙄 silly don!

The NEX-VG10 is worth a look. Film sized sensor, accepts various lenses and very cheap (for what it is).

I suspect £1200 is well out of his price range…

£1000 is the absolute max it seems, but it really could do with being less. He’s thinking older tech.

+1 on the misread.

Probably best off with a cheap DSLR that shoots 1080 HD?

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/80640/show.html

Pretty reasonable. You’ll get a decent standard of video from one of these if you know what you’re doing. And you can always upgrade the lenses.

I suspect part of it is professional image. If you turn up with something that looks like a decent video camera you’ll impress clients a bit more than with a cheap stills DSLR.

I suspect part of it is professional image. If you turn up with something that looks like a decent video camera you’ll impress clients a bit more than with a cheap stills DSLR.

If he know what he’s doing he’ll be able to make stuff that looks far more impressive with a DSLR – which is surely more important.

+1 on the misread.

😆 It would certainly help in raising the 1200 quid for a new camera though.

If he know what he’s doing he’ll be able to make stuff that looks far more impressive with a DSLR – which is surely more important

Better than a grand’s worth of camcorder? And I’m not sure that it IS more important tbh. Do you have customers in your line of work? 😉

I’d have thought a DSLR on a big tripod and a couple of big lenses will look a lot more impressive than his Panasonic NV GS400 which looks like this…

Ok.. so why’s a DSLR better than a camcorder then in this price range? (genuine question)

probably sensor size… camcorder sensor is probably small.. and you may be stuck with the lens on the camcorder

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if its DSLR for video, panasonic gh2 must be on the list?

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but really you need 4k and this 😆

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=246

SUMMING UP:
The Panasonic AG-AF101 is quite simply revolutionary. It is unequivocally and without a doubt the new and first kid on the block with such incredible capabilities at such an incredibly low price. It is the HD camcorder that independent filmmakers, as well as every other video producer and lighting cameraman has been waiting on for 20 odd years or so. At £4,295 plus vat, what is there not to like. The AG-AF101 takes all goodness of DSLRs i.e. depth-of-field and light sensitivity, but gets rid of all the bad stuff such as aliasing, rainbow moiré and other workflow issues, and all encapsulated in a perfectly formed professional video camcorder.

Camcorders are for parents to point in the general direction of their kids, hand-held, with huge zoom ranges. They’re a do everything easily type tool.

If you’re actually doing stuff you might want to show someone you’ll be using a tripod, shooting short clips, you’ll be manual focusing, you’ll appreciate depth of field control and being able to swap lenses will be a huge bonus.

Video cameras that do that cost a lot more than £1000. DSLRs do that for very little but the form factor is a bit crap. They’re being used at the moment because they’re cheap and do the job. Cameras like the NEX-VG10 are the new breed of budget video cameras with high-spec features, but a DSLR will do just fine.

Can change lenses so easy to get different effects i.e. fisheye.

Can achieve set depth of field much easier (i.e. blur background – the easiest way to make your videos look ‘professional’)

Most mid level web video producers are using DSLR now. It’s not unprofessional to turn up with one if you have a decent off camera mic and tripod as mentioned above.

Disadvantage usually comes down to having to buy lots of memory cards or one big one.

Better than a grand’s worth of camcorder? And I’m not sure that it IS more important tbh. Do you have customers in your line of work?

Yes I do. And quite a bit of the work I get is on the strength of my portfolio – the portfolio will be far more impressive made on a DSLR (by someone with the skills). I know what you mean about looking the part when you turn up for a job but I don’t see how a cheap camcorder will do this. Most people filming when I went to the WC at Fort William including some in official vests were using DSLRs.

Surely you know by know the reasons DSLR footage will look better? It’s been gone over so many times on here.

Search ebay for sony PD150. Quite old tech now and only SD but will do what he wants.

However if he’s using kit that is “as cheap as possible” I don’t reckon he’s going to last long. He needs to be offering HD.

LOADS of people are using DSLRs to shoot video now. Even seen a crew doing a wedding with 3 DSLR cameras
The sound is a real problem though. It needs recording seperatly and syncing up.
Some DSLRs have a habit of overheating when shooting video for a long time so its pays to have a really good look round

Some DSLRs have a habit of overheating when shooting video for a long time so its pays to have a really good look round

I think it’s all rather than some.

Surely you know by know the reasons DSLR footage will look better?

I know why it’ll be better than a £300 mini camcorder, but I’ve got no idea what else is available, hence the question.. that Panasonic above seems to have a manual focus ring, but not much else.

The Sony Nex VG10 above looks like the best bet so far. I was thinking perhaps something like the Panasonic – older tech but with still the manual focus etc that’s needed. We were thinking people getting rid of older kit to upgrade, maybe colleges or something.

However if he’s using kit that is “as cheap as possible” I don’t reckon he’s going to last long.

Well I dunno, given the personal problems his ‘company’ has been having I really dunno 🙂 When I said as cheap as poss, I didn’t know his budget.

Lots of pro’s don’t always own. They Hire. at least to find one they are happy with then they might buy.

He should be after Final Cut Native stuff then to save Transcoding. Time is money and all that. I doubt you will get a broadcast standard camera for that budget that still works.

Sony A1 and its HD Hard Disc/Memory card pals
JVC GY-HM100U

The SLR’s can produce good footage but are hellish for handling, and ergonomics. We get corporate folk shooting conferences on these but it looks like a right faff.

Your local media access centre may have subsidised kit you can hire or hireacamera.co.uk are handy if you need something fancy.

If he’s under 30 there should be plenty of startup grants to allow purchase of something. His business plan may include a loan?

That’s very good advice about the business startup loan but he seems completely clueless to me. I think that sort of organisation is beyond him.. although perhaps the grant/loan will galvanise him to get organised.

Lots of pro’s don’t always own. They Hire. at least to find one they are happy with then they might buy.

All the freelance I work with own… If you’re charging £300 a day and having to hire at £250 a day there isn’t much profit!

Even the guys just shooting for the internet are running full HD Camcorders.

If he wants to have even a fighting chance he needs to spend a good couple of grand.

If it were me, I’d be looking at a Sony Z5 at the bear minimum

What about the Canon Legria HF G10?

This Panasonic HDC-SD900 gets good reviews but is clearly a home camera. It has full manual though – what would happen if you tried to make a film for a client with it? Imagining of course that the client would be fairly clueless, hiring a keen lad with a camera rather than a proper outfit…

Hang on! The guy wants to start his own business making films yet hasn’t got a clue about the equipment he needs?
Assuming he has contacts in an/the industry he’s targeting, he might be better subbing out the camera work and focus his effort on the area he knows, until he learns about cameras, no?

Bit of background – he’s a guy who’s worked in various retail jobs and was unemployed for a while, but he’s an artistic sort of chap and has a good eye for making films. However he’s very naieve, he went into business with his gf with whom he then split up, and she took all the stuff. They didn’t have any formal arrangement, I don’t even know if they were set up properly. Apparently though they did get some work but I dunno on what scale.

He wants to continue on his own but the camera was hers. Hence the need for another one.

No idea on what sort of scale the films he has made were on.

the directors i know don’t own any camera equipment as the production company just hire it in or hire it with a DOP, cameras will change too according to the job and budget, 5/7D, alexa, phantom (for high speed) red, the new panasonic af101 and sometimes 16mm but that’s getting rarer.

OK, that makes more sense now.

Bump for the weekday-ers.