Just got a letter from my dentist to say my kids will no longer be elligible for NHS dental treatment because of the re-negotiated contracts between dentists and the government. Was there any negotiation? I think not!

We adults lost our NHS dental treatment 3 years ago.

The Labour government have successfully further cut their liability to shell out for such treatment and the nation’s teeth will rot as a result of it! We are going to end up like a third world country!

I wonder if the same contractual terms apply to somewhere like Scotland.

So it’s higher taxes and reduced services in return. Same old story, but to disadvantage children is really low!

Shame on those lefties!!

yes – my kids had their last NHS check ups last week – the only solution is to have Blair back to stand trial……wouldn’t make much difference of course but at least we’d feel a little better – up on the bonfire with that RBS robber…..

We all have NHS dental treatment – 5 of us

Change to another dentist

In Scotland last week, the pharmacist tried to give us free (non-prescription) medicine for the kids. I had to tell her that I’d need to pay, because my government doesn’t give a stuff about kids’ health.

Change to another dentist? LMFAO!

Try finding one who is taking NHS patients!

Scotland have a different and much more generous system of care and support for people.

Spongebob

Me & the wife changed last year when our dentist went wholly private for adults, the kids still get NHS cover at our old dentist

where do you live?

No problem at all finding NHS dentists here (Herts).

Have you actually tried ringing round?

Shame on those lefties!!

ermm, what lefties would that be ?

One person’s “generous system of care and support” is another persons overpaid dentists.

The reason most dentists “can’t afford” to do NHS work is because otherwise they wouldn’t make £100K for a 4 day week.

Of course that’s just my opinion.

My dentist in greenwich is advertising for more NHS patients???

there’s dentists with spaces available just about everywhere, have you tried or did you just want to moan?

Shame on those lefties!!

I think most of the lefties in the ‘Labour’ party were quietly killed 🙁

Why blame a government for you having a greedy dentist?
I suppose we should have just paid up and increased taxes to cover it … i am sure you would not be moaning then would you?
The NHS contracts alllow dentists to opt out .. I beleive it is termed free market economics so beloved of the right wing. Apparently it makes everything cheaper and work better as this example and the banking system so clearly demonstrate.

Ok phone your primary care trust or local health board in wales to obtain a list of local dentists who accept NHS patients

But this privatisation of dental care really pisses me off. Dentists should not be allowed to fully opt out of the NHS. Fine see some private patients if you wish. as a GP I am fed up of seeing dental probs in my surgery because ALL of the dentists in my town have gone private. Can you imagine the outcry if general practice went the same way. Dentists are being privatised by stealth and it’s the disadvateaged who are suffering through poor dental care

but the new contract is rubbish and a lot of dentists went private for good common sense business reasons!

– new contract pay varies accross the country. I moved to cumbria (an area lacking in NHS dentists from newcastle (loads of NHS). Now i get paid £4 per unit of treatment less…. multiply that up by a target of 7000 UDA’s and its a £28k pay cut i took to move to an area with greater dental needs!!
In some areas of the NE dentists were getting £24-£25 per unit… and in some ares of cumbria its as low as £18. Guess which area has fewr NHS dentists?

– New contract penalises people who look after their teeth as they pay £44 quid for one filling. Yet people who need 10 fillings pay the same. Dentist gets paid the same for one filling as he does for 10 as well, so why would a dentist want to work under the new contract if he’s in an area of high clinical needs. Sometimes after overheads (materials, utilities, staff wages) are factored in we would be better giving the patient a tenner and not even seeing them. Its quite common for me to see patients needing 4 or more half hour appointments…and get paid £60 by the NHS in total for 2 hours work. I always say a fee per item system is fairer as it encourages patients to actually look after their teeth! In the new system we also get patients declining a filling (eg if they just have one thats needed) saying they’ll wait until they need another one as it’ll be the same price!

In answer to the original point about kids dental care though, some PCT’s are not allowing dentists to offer child only NHS contracts. They either have to be full NHS, or none. Its not always the dentists choice, but depends if the PCT will allow them to run a child only NHS contract.

Over-supply of dentistry around wigan too, had the choice of 3 or 4 local NHS dentists last year. This year I had the choice of 2 in scotland, but I only rang two so could have been more. That said, I dont want black fillings really so I’m still looking at monsterous private bills anyway.

It’s sad that i do my job for the benefit of my patients and that

a lot of dentists went private for good common sense business reasons!

. I’m glad i don’t exclude treatment for those who can’t pay, I sleep easier with that ethos. Don’t get me wrong my job is financially and professionally rewarding ( but I don’t earn anyway near £100k as a full time salaried GP!!)and i wouldnt do anything else, but it is morally wrong to opt out of treating those who can’t afford it. the BDA negotiated your contract and if as a profession dentists are not happy with it you should renegotaite it rather than punish your patients. And I know general practice isnt perfect but at least we are open to all

Hmm maybe that’s why I went to medical and not dental school!

Ring up the NHS Dentist line and they will send you a list of practises in your area taking NHS patients.

I got a list sent to me last week and was surprised by how many were on the list !

I’m in Sussex BTW.

Drnick..

BDA is imho a toothless wonder really. I also dont earn anywhere near 100k as all the figures quoted above are before practice overheads, and as i merely work for someone else as an associate (can’t be bothered with the hassle of running my own place) i have to pay 50% of all fees to the owner to cover my nurses, receptionists wages, materials and eqpuipment. So i’m on about 55K here in the lakes, but have a much better quality of life than in the city so i dont mind or i wouldnt have moved here! And i also agree that 55K is still a very good wage.

I was just trying to point out some reasons why some practices have gone private. If you’d been working under the old system and were then offered a new contract which meant your business would suddenly be losing about 20-30k per dentist working there (4+ surgeried not uncommon in a single practice) then its quite a big chunk of profit.

Also another reason is that with the cost of the latest materials, equipment and higher quality lab services (for crowns / dentures etc) then its not always possible to use the latest and best stuff on NHS patients, so some dentists would rather charge more and see fewer patients, but spend more time with each one and use the latest / best materials and techniques to provide a better quality of care.

I had no trouble finding an nhs dentist in sheffield a couple of years ago despite scare stories in the media…

not always possible to use the latest and best stuff on NHS patients

What’s to stop you doing checkups etc. for your NHS patients and if they need a filling offering them the option of doing it via the NHS or privately if they prefer say the white fillings?

^^^ we can and do do that although most people will just go for the basic option. A lot of dentists would rather just work with all the latest materials / methods etc all the time as it gives more job satisfaction. They’re the reasons my private dentist colleagues always give me anyway!!!

A lot of dentists would rather just work with all the latest materials / methods etc all the time as it gives more job satisfaction

is that financial satisfaction there?… thank the lord for the Doctor above. A highly skilled professional, well paid but above and beyond all that he actually gives a sh1t and remembers why he joined his profession rather than just trying to maximise his own incolme by excluding the unhealthy.
Thanks Dr Nick and all the rest in the NHS who do there job for the right reasons.

Why blame a government for you having a greedy dentist?
I suppose we should have just paid up and increased taxes to cover it … i am sure you would not be moaning then would you?
The NHS contracts allow dentists to opt out .. I believe it is termed free market economics so beloved of the right wing. Apparently it makes everything cheaper and work better as this example and the banking system so clearly demonstrate.

I think this sums it up perfectly.

junkyard…

I am completely NHS, and we dont exclude the ‘unhealthy’, i was just pointing out some of the problems in the new contract and reasons (given to me by private colleagues) why they went private. Apolgies if i maybe havent explained it well but patient care is usually always high on every dentists list, as no one wants to go see a bad or uncaring dentist.

meeeee .. I also apologise your posts were clear and my dig was at the others not you though I do accept it is not a great system either. Personally I would just salary the lot of you and put you all on NHS or if dentists want the money go to the US of A this time next year they could be a millionaire.

We are going to end up like a third world country!

Will that mean we’ll able to have gold teeth like people in third world countries ?

Cool …………… no one fuxabout with people with gold teeth 8)

£28k pay cut

omfg. I have been in the nhs for 10 years, manage a load of people, a load of money and a load of highly risky teenagers. And for me a 28k pay cut would mean me paying my nhs trust about a tenner a day for the right to come to work. Oh, make that £9.75 after this April’s joke of a pay rise actually.

I find it hard to sympathise too much really.

Anyway enough dentist bashing and i don’t want to come over as holier that thou etc. I really do hope however that the government invest in NHS dentistry in the long term. Wouldnt it be great if it became freely available to all so those dentists which have abandoned the nhs through greed ( and i know that’s not all of you meeee) suddenly have to return cap in hand to the NHS. My family has an NHS dentist but we have to drive 15-20 miles to see them, fine for us but not great for those without cars/disabled etc.

The SPAMBOTS have woken!

:wink:lefties ? isnt that a bike front fork ! lol

Spongebob – Member
Scotland have a different and much more generous system of care and support for people.

Like to quantify that?