Seems strange that the protestors are tenting down at St Pauls, Owned by the church, one of the largest land owners in the country.

Probably be over tommorow as they all troop back to their capitalist workplaces,or to shop or bank at probably some of the places theyre proteting against.

Seems strange that the protestors are tenting down at St Pauls, Owned by the church, one of the largest land owners in the country.

Why’s that project……..are the protesters landless peasants ?

“Occupy, Resist, Produce”

If the Church of England has allowed the demonstrators to use their premises I think it’s rather nice.

Perhaps it should be remembered who are responsible for the corporate greed which has got the world in the mess it’s in.

I’ve heard of passing the buck, but blaming the C of E is taking the piss. The days when the C of E was the Tory Party at prayer are long gone.

Today the C of E is far more likely to be a vocal opponent of corporate greed and the divisive policies of right-wing Tory governments than a supporter.

Probably be over tommorow as they all troop back to their capitalist workplaces,or to shop or bank at probably some of the places theyre proteting against.

yes if they believe what they say then they should starve themselves to death to get the point across and to stop you saying they are hypocrites.

Do you find it odd that many of the capitalists goods come from Communist China…what are they then capitalist or Communist?

We live in a mixed economy everyone every day has to interact with both economies. They use publicly funded roads to reach said emporiums of capitalism etc.

so what you’re saying is that tax payers (as they are workers) are protesting about how their country is being run (into the ground)
How very dare they !

what brazen cheek, they should bend over like proper citizens and take it the way project does 😉

project – Member

Seems strange that the protestors are tenting down at St Pauls, Owned by the church, one of the largest land owners in the country.

If they were protesting against private land ownership I’m sure you’d have a point. As it is, well, hmm.

I was having a quiet chuckle watching this on the news … with a group of protesters in the background busily drinking from their starbucks buckets.

OccupyStPauls on twitter is fantastic:

Shit just got real, independant retailer and crowd fave Starbucks has run out of soya milk. Stay strong comrades #OccupyLSX

😆

what are they then capitalist or Communist?

marxist free marketists or something 😉

I was having a quiet chuckle watching this on the news … with a group of protesters in the background busily drinking from their starbucks buckets.

My understanding is that the London protest was inspired by the Wall Street protesters who have demonstrated against economic inequality – the greed that led to the collapse of their economy, and the fact that banks aren’t now paying their fair share; the “indignados” in Madrid who have demonstrated against staggering levels of unemployment, specially youth unemployment; and the anti-austerity protesters in Athens who have demonstrated against brutal foreign-imposed austerity measures which is choking their economy. And that it had nothing to do with drinking coffee.

So I fail to see what is amusing about protesters allegedly drinking “starbucks buckets”. Unless of course you are referring to the fact that it’s overpriced coffee-flavoured milky piss-water. In which case you’ve probably got a point.

From what I understand the protest are anti corporate greed, not anti-corporate. It’s still possible to have all the big corporations but try and get them to act in a better manor. As an example now corporations try (appear?) to be (slightly?) better on the environmental front. The fact that they are corporate customers means that the corporations should listen to their opinions. Or are you all saying that if you buy from a company you should not be able to express an opinion on them?

Political systems like many things in life come in many different forms, just because people may be complaining about the current system does not mean mean they are necessary anti capitalist. Capitalism can come in different form depending on the environment it is given to operate in.

You mean everything’s not an absolute?

😯

Right on Ernie

Few companies have done more to offer young people a fair wage and a step on the career ladder than Starbucks!

Wolfie Smith salute to you brother 😀

And btw Zulu-Eleven ……..I don’t what you find so funny – it’s the free-market neo-liberal bollox which you follow like a religion, that has got us in this mess.

Lifer – Member
You mean everything’s not an absolute?

Its radical I know but that’s the kind of crazy guy I am.

And somewhere, in neocon paradise, someone gets wood.

Occupy LSX initial statement

ernie_lynch – Member
And btw Zulu-Eleven ……..I don’t what you find so funny – it’s the free-market neo-liberal bollox which you follow like a religion, that has got us in this mess.

What’s your preferred system for not getting us “into this mess” then, Ernest?

Do you have to have an alternative before you can say something’s wrong?

Social democracy btw.

… and how would the economics of a “Social Democracy” work?

Do you have to have an alternative before you can say something’s wrong?

I’d actually say you do, otherwise you’re just one more part of the problem.

I’d actually say you do, otherwise you’re just one more part of the problem.

That’s why Governments hide so much information, cover up the legitimate as well as the illegitimate, keep the population in the dark and stop them from having opinions of their own.

Its clear their are big problems with the current state of capitalism, but so much is hidden from joe public we can’t make informed decisions on alternatives.

Nationalisation of infrastructure and public services.
More regulation of private enterprise.
Progressive taxation.
Fair trade.

Democratic senate canditate Elizabeth Warren recently said:

“there is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.”

Warren rejects the concept that it is possible for Americans to become wealthy in isolation.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you,” she says. “But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.”

She continues: “Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

Which I think is a great quote, not only does it show how socialised western economies actually are, it also shows that a true social democracy (as opposed to all the ‘third way’ bobbins) would not be that big a leap.

Z11 – you are perfectly correct to point out the irony re the Starbucks coffee.

The OccupyLSX website is a combination of good ideas/BS and mixed messages. An interesting read and not dissimilar to STW!! Two quotes caught my eye on page 1:

Chir0on, just who is the mug? Sally because she is prepared to put forward an opposing view or you because you disagree with her view so you throw an insult? You call for a right to meaningful involvement in democracy, yet seem unable to handle opposing views without wishing to be dominant and make her feel less worthy. Just how will that work in your utopia? “I don’t like your views, so you’re a mug”? You have all the tools available for a meaningful involvement in democracy. You already have that right. All you need to do is use it, and persuade enough others that you are right and you can take over.

Yes a mug to you maybe but I honestly don’t care about your opinion and the preconceived ideas anyone has about me because of my comments. What I do know is in this economic climate my dad’s 30 year old company is failing. But he doesn’t sit on the steps of St Paul’s campaigning that he deserves more compared to others wealth. No at 65 he gets up earlier and stays at work later, he knocks on more doors for work and with this his company is now managing… He is not ignorant to the cause everyone is campaigning but he is understanding of the reality of how we have ended up here and what is needed to get us out of this situation. Nothing was ever given to another for free and for years we have been living a life on credit now we reap the results of this.

There is no ironing (I think you mean hypocritical btw) with the starbucks thing, as has been said you don’t have to be absolutist about everything and it’s not an anti-capitalism/anti-corporate protest. These are people from differing ideologies and backgrounds it’s not a protest that can be framed in the narrow view that we are used to.

Sheesh.

Sorry Ernie – you appear to be under the misapprehension that the “neo-liberal free marketeers” thought we should piss billions and billions up the wall propping up basket case national economies like Greece.

I’m afraid you’re sorely mistaken!

In fact, just for you to wnak off over – here’s my supposed guru saying that greece was headed down the toilet before the Election
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100036570/the-greek-crisis-should-be-our-main-election-issue/

And, heres the bloke you voted for – yep, your beloved party, that you voted to be in government, telling us that we should have joined the Euro:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7841897.stm

So, you can take that and stick it in your left wing agenda!

What Lifer said. Elizabeth Warren also had an answer to you mr woppit:

What’s your preferred system for not getting us “into this mess” then, Ernest?

She said don’t get into a perfectly avoidable mess in the first place. It’s not as if we don’t have history to learn from is it? Of course those wishing to make obscene amounts of money do ignore it because it kind of gets in the way of their wealth generation schemes, there’s a reason why we did have regulations after all.

They are right to be angry, I wouldnt like to be leaving college right now and looking for work. Looking forward to enjoying your pension? Guess who is going to be paying for it.

But

We’ve been here before, I was a teenager in Scotland in the 80’s, it literally felt like there not going be ANY jobs, people really did think that. The business cycle turned, things got better.

And one other thing….

Things might feel rotten for kids right now, but let’s please not hear that they are a particularly put upon generation. My old man grew up in a two room tenemant, no dad around because he was off liberating Europe. A little perspective please.

Things might feel rotten for kids right now, but let’s please not hear that they are a particularly put upon generation. My old man grew up in a two room tenemant, no dad around because he was off liberating Europe. A little perspective please.

True, but they had hope for the future, that hope has now gone, I am now 42 years old, never been able to afford to buy a house and work longer hours than my parents ever did, in a supposedly good job. I also fear for my future about losing my job and being put on the scrapheap.

In many ways their hope may not have been justified, but at least they had it, our is gone.

I’m sure the 1 million+ unemployed youth will be eternally grateful for your sentiments McBoo. So to summarise. Cheer up and stop moaning! It’ll get better. It always does. Erm…. possibly. Yeah…. I’m sure it will. It’ll probably be fine

What we need is a good war!

Don’t three bad ones = one good one?

Sorry Ernie – you appear to be under the misapprehension that the “neo-liberal free marketeers” thought we should piss billions and billions up the wall propping up basket case national economies like Greece.

You’re a boy ain’t ya Zulu-Eleven ! 😀

No mate …… I very clearly understand that it was the New Democracy Party in Greece with their “Liberal Conservatism”, that got the Greeks in this mess. And the “billions and billions” being pissed up the wall now is to prop up the French and German banks that have caught a cold – not to help the Greek people who are being hammered.

But wait it gets better ……

here’s my supposed guru saying that greece was headed down the toilet before the Election
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100036570/the-greek-crisis-should-be-our-main-election-

So when Greece found itself in the shit your man Dan Hannan predicted that Greece would be in the shit?! The man’s a **** genius ! 😀

Yes, Greece has gone from bad to worse. And the reason why ? Well that’s very very easy…….because despite the lies spouted by you and your neo-con Tory Boys, “austerity” doesn’t work ! In fact it makes things much much worse – as the Irish have also found out to their cost. If austerity did work, then the Greek economy would have started recovering some time ago. As it stands, it’s just set to get immeasurably worse, and Greece will almost certainly default.

But let’s concentrate on Dan Hannan’s brilliant analytical mind…….let’s remind ourselves what he said about the Icelandic economy shall we ? 😉

Dan Hannan said, quote :

“Being outside the EU, Iceland has been able to cut taxes and regulation, and to open up its economy. For 70 years the Althing has been dominated by the splendidly named Independence party, which has pursued the kind of Thatcherite agenda that is off limits to EU members

In the ten years that I have been travelling to Iceland, I have watched an economic miracle unfold there … Today, Icelanders are absolutely rolling in it. A people two generations away from subsistence farming have become international tycoons

Icelanders understand that there is a connection between living in an independent state and living independently from the state. They have no more desire to submit to international than to national regulation. That attitude has made them the happiest, freest and wealthiest people on earth“.

A few months later Iceland’s banks crashed and the country was left bankrupt, owing British taxpayers £billions. What an insight this guru of yours Dan Hannan has Zulu-Eleven …… what a genius !

And, heres the bloke you voted for – yep, your beloved party, that you voted to be in government

You just can’t help yourself, can you …..lying is just a way of life for you isn’t it Zulu-Eleven ?

I know that you read my posts with almost religious fervour, so you are fully aware how much I intensely dislike Nick Clegg, but that doesn’t stop from pretending that I support him…….it’s all part of the “funny” little game you like to play – gawd bless yer 🙂

.

Mr Woppit – Member

… and how would the economics of a “Social Democracy” work?

I would suggest that you read up on John Maynard Keynes if you’re really interested. And yes, it is without doubt the most workable form of capitalism. Within the constraints of the irreconcilability of the contradictions of capitalism of course – it’s simply a damage limitation exercise which significantly reduces the problems but doesn’t solve the fundamental issues/failures.

Ernie does Daniel Hannan know you are stalking him? Every thread you obsess about him…..why dont you call him up and ask him out for a date.

So you are fully aware how much I intensely dislike Nick Clegg, but that doesn’t stop from pretending that I support him.

So why the **** did you vote for the Lib Dems then?

why dont you call him up and ask him out for a date.

LOL ! How funny is that ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😀

Although perhaps you weren’t paying attention and didn’t realise that I was responding to Zulu-Eleven’s post on Dan Hannan’s critique of Greece ? I didn’t bring Hannan onto this thread……still never mind eh ?

C’mon Ernie? why did you vote for Cleggie if you didn’t support him?

I suppose its like when you claim you didn’t support Labour, but voted for Red Ken, the official party candidate…

Hypocritical bullshitter that changes his views with the wind, thats all you are – bit like your mate Nick 😆

C’mon Ernie? why did you vote for Cleggie if you didn’t support him?

I take it that you’ve read my rather long-winded post then. So how about you stop playing those silly games you like to play and you tackle the body of my post.

You know, stuff like my assertion that it was the New Democracy Party in Greece with their “Liberal Conservatism”, that got the Greeks in this mess. That billions are being spent to prop up the banks – not the Greek people. That “austerity” doesn’t work. That Dan Hannan talked complete shite concerning Iceland’s “economic miracle”…..that sort of stuff. Can’t challenge any of it eh ?

And with reference to your stupid suggestion that I voted for Nick Clegg, on the day after the last general election I started this thread :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/time-for-nick-clegg-to-go

It’s rare for me to start a thread and it’s pretty clear that I didn’t vote for Nick Clegg. But as I said, you just can’t help telling lies – you know no other way.

The protestors are protesting against the banks,yet its those same banks that pay their wages,or keep hold of their wages, that they earn working for capitalist companies, or local councils, which are paid for by us all.

Just what are they hoping to achieve, not even the media is that bothered until they start looting,what needs to happen is a tax on banks profits,but they will just probably put up their charges, so they can still keep the same or more cash in the kitty and pay back the shareholders, who are probably the parents of the kids involved.

The protestors are protesting against the banks,yet its those same banks that pay their wages,or keep hold of their wages, that they earn working for capitalist companies, or local councils, which are paid for by us all.

The protestors are not protesting against the banks, they are protesting at the behaviour of the banks. Obviously everyone knows that we need banks.

They are also protesting (not just in London but across the world) at savage austerity measures which don’t work, whilst the greedy and incompetent banks which caused the crises, aren’t paying their fair share.

This is enough to make even me want to storm the banks. The bank being Barclays.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/business-and-investments/blog/7320118/why-is-the-recovery-so-slow.thtml

The bank has announced an $11.5 billion loan to junk-rated Kinder Morgan Inc to fund an oil pipeline transaction.

The banks have money to lend; they just choose to gamble it. The reason? Simple. Risky loans and takeover deals can earn enormous fees for investment banking arms. Those fees are paid in advance and bonuses for senior management are drawn from those sums. The loans may also get placed on the commercial bank book — and future losses don’t impact on bonuses, which have been already paid out. The profit from lending to small businesses is accrued over several years, which is no match for a fast buck now.

Where is the taxpayer interest here? The banks — including Barclays — have received almost £1 trillion in subsidies in the form of cheap Bank of England loans, deposit and debt guarantees to improve lending conditions for UK businesses, but banks seem only interested in creaming off easy profits while continuing to roll the dice. And if things really go wrong, who picks up the bill? The £280 billion of toxic loans that were offloaded onto the taxpayer by RBS via the Asset Protection Scheme contained plenty of this sort of thing.

Meanwhile, lending to small businesses continues to fall by around 7 per cent per year according to the Bank of England:

Lifer – Member

Do you have to have an alternative before you can say something’s wrong?

Course not- do you diagnose your medical condition before you go to the doctor?

I’ve spoken about this before, but large-scale socio-political change is not normally planned, and when it is planned, doesn’t turn out as expected. If you’d asked the VOC what the longterm result of founding the bourse, would they have had a clue?

You don’t need to know what the next system will be to start moving away from the current one. But they saw failings in the system they had, and opportunities to move away from those. Sometimes they moved in a particular direction and funded stock exchanges, other times they moved away from a particular position and chopped off a king’s head. Sometimes they got what they wanted, other times they triggered an unexpected result.

Not knowing what will happen next is no reason not to stand up against what you see as wrong right now. And refusing to change until everything has been planned out and the future is decided, means refusing to change.