looking at the options of upping the power on a Yr 2006 1.9 ltr 100bhp renault diesel engine as found in the trafic.

Do they really offer that much power and better fuel consumption? some first hand experiences and reccommendations would be appreciated.

Ta

Had a passat 1.9TDi 130bhp re-mapped to 170bhp.

Went well, about the same mpg, no issues.

Makes me wonder, if it improved fuel economy AND gave you more power, why aren't the engines mapped that way in the first place. I thought engine mapping could give you more power at the expense of economy or vice versa. I'm no expert, but there's no such thing as a free lunch…is there? 😕

No there isn't.

Bhp gains are impressive but you will raise your emissions levels (a lot) and shorten the life of your drivetrain, eat tyres, etc. On my second pokey turbo diesel (or twin turbo on current one) but not going to remap.

Manufacturers spend zillions on R&D and will get the best power and economy they can. Remaps (IMO) are just putting all that work under much higher pressure.

Engines are mapped very conservatively for durablity. Economy usually stays about the same or improves with remaps cos your not having to rev as hard due of the increase in low end torque to get up to speed. This of course goes out of the window if you drive it hard all the time.

Passat i had did 100,000 miles on re-mapped engine and didn't even break wind.

Ford, for example now, will honour warrantys even if you remap your engine using ford approved tuning companies.

Engines and drivetrains aren't as fragile as you think.

I went a stage or two further & had my 130PD VAG lump fitted with a hybrid turbo & big intercooler before being remapped – came out at 242bhp 😆
Had it done over 40000 miles ago & everything's still sweet – gets through front tyres in 8000 though.
Still get regular 55mpg & even saw 60mpg on a gentle run last autumn
Previous Rover 45 was chipped & got about 5 mpg better – better economy comes from more torque meaning you don't have to rev the engine so hard & change gear so often to make the same progress.

So are all companies the same? is it just a matter of fitting a micro chip and away you go is there a bi more involved?

Nasher – they're not the same – some take the car in for a remap, some offer a simple fit at home chip.

They vary a lot.

You will kill the emissions and shorten the life of the catalytic converter. I'm not keen.

Some will stick in a power resistor of justice type box that just fools the ECU – naff. Some will fit a known-good map assuming a standard car and safe levels (safe, but moderate gains). Some will live-map it on rollers. None need chip fitting these days, all done through the OBDII port.

So if I went for the full rolling road etc.. how much will it cost and any reccommendations?

Thread hijack:

how long between a new engine model coming out and remapping being available?
Getting a 135bhp alfa multiair engine which seems to just be a detuned 170bhp version, how long before someone can change it back 🙂

Usually within a couple of months. If it's based on a "known" engine then even quicker.

THESE GUYS did a mates 56 reg Renault – he's very pleased with it
Think it was £275 but that was over a year ago.

I had the 1.9 diesel engine in my vivaro done a few years ago (if yours is in a trafic it's the same engine) mine was the 82bhp version and the remap improved mpg by 10% and made it much nicer to drive.

I used sptuning and it was about £200, Pendle performance also have a very good reputation in the field.

had my audi 2.0 done, got about 40 bhp more , mpg about 5 mpg better
it dosent change emissions and if you dont rag it engione and tyre life wont alter drasticaly, therer is more turbo boost so the turbo works a lot harder
try a company called viezu, they supply the map with a box, you plug it into the car and it replaces the standard map, when its going to the dealers, you can replace the stock map

viezu

So if I went for the full rolling road etc.. how much will it cost and any reccommendations?

Rolling road time with a mapper usually comes in at around £100 per hour and for a proper mapping on a petrol car I'd expect around 4-6 hours total time to extract the best from your engine. On a D, not sure but they have a similar task at hand so I'd say a proper mapping would be in the £500 range. But plenty of people settle happily with a quick and easy less extreme improvements, for example a stage 1 remap of the pug 2.0 HDi will give it a 25% power increase for £100 with no need for rollign road, but it will smoke a bit more than usual.

Wouldnt trust those veizu chaps based purely on their FAQ:

Will re-mapping invalidate my car's warranty?

The way Viezu files reprogramme a vehicle is completely undetectable. All codes and diagnostics that a dealer may read will remain exactly the same.

Dealer can get access to your cars original map and easily extract your existing map, if they don't match they can prove the warranty is worth sod all. They WILL do this if they have any hunch. You can't hide it, and by definition the files are detectable, just not in a normal £80 service check so it wont flag up when you go in for a filter change.

Car makes often fit the same engine to different models then detune it for the cheaper ones. The mini cooper and cooper s are a prime example.

Car makes often fit the same engine to different models then detune it for the cheaper ones. The mini cooper and cooper s are a prime example.

Not a prime example at all really, the S has a supercharger that the cooper doesn't, and as such requires quite a few different bits to deal with positive manifold pressure, not just an ECU remap! I believe the engine internals are possibly the same though I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a compression ratio change and possibly different pistons.

Had my 320d done. Driving normally, its just the same, but returns another 5mpg. Boot it, and it actually now justifies the M-sport badge.

I got mine doen by emaps who were very friendly & efficient and a damn sight cheaper than a lot of the competition. Check owners forums for recomendations.

I wouldn't do it to a vehicle under warranty, and budget for more regular oil changes.

Thanks for the emaps link Jon, by their FAq's they seem abit more open and honest…

these guys are good, watch the video

vroooom

got a few mates who have had it done, save a bit on fuel and the powerformance is noticeable.

as above engines as standard are set very conservtive, aslong as you service the car regular its fine (from what ive seen) but these are people who are obsessive over their cars.

Adrian – let me know if you get it done, I've been thinking of doing exactly the same thing on ours. The 100bHp engine is fantastic most of the time, but add 9 riders, a trailer and 9 bikes then try to go up some sketchy Alpine semi-surfaced road and life can occasionally get interesting!

I've been hesitating over a re-map though because I'm not convinced that lack of raw power is the issue. It's the lack of pull below 2000rpm that's the problem. Once you actually get into the power band, it goes just fine (until you hit the rev limiter about 0.5 picoseconds later…)

Speaking as a calibration engineer who's job is to essentially remap engines, there are definite advantages to getting it done, but there definitely isn't a "free lunch". You are constantly trading one parameter off against another to achieve a happy medium for what the customer wants. But OEM ECU's are mapped VERY conservatively and it's amazing at what you can get out of them with a decent calibration.

Think Rockhopper meant the Mini One and the Cooper.

Had an Alfa 156 2.4 JTD with 30% higher capacity turbo, bigger Intercooler, remap, plug in box for further fuelling mods, plug in box to control boost pressure, water injection (which also allows the edition of Methanol and Nitromethane (same benefits as Nitrous Oxide)) hand made exhaust with removable Cat, professional induction system lots of other minor adjustments/mods, (and some very big brakes!).

In petrol terms, only a 911 Turbo came anywhere near the torque this thing chucked out, the BHP was only low to mid 300's but it was devastatingly quick as first gear just wasn't necessary! Pull away in second until the Kevlar or Ceramic clutch (depending on which week it was) gave up the ghost!

There are definitely weak points, it's not the engine, and you won't have to worry until you're into much more than a remap or plug in tuning box.

At 48,000 miles the Alfa was on its 2nd gear box (first one having been rebuilt once as well) and 6 or 7th clutch, I really did lose count!

stevomcd – Look for plug in 'tuning boxes' you'll probably find some that offer money back guarentees etc. If you don't like it take it off and send it back, you can't do that with a remap, although the maindealers can remove them for you ….. even when youdon't want them too!

Don't assume that different power versions of an engine are the same.my 130 diesel also comes in 100 & 160 versions just on that model of car.
Mine has different injectors, inlet ports etc. over the 100 & the 160 has a bigger turbo & front mounted intercooler instead of the side mounted one on mine.

Main things putting me off a re-map are potentially needing to spend an extra £700 on an updated clutch & increased tyre wear.

+1 for Celtic Tuning here. I've had my 2.2 Diesel Civic remapped to 194bhp with no ill effects, makes a HUGE difference to the car, tho. What you've got to think about is the stock map is set to cover the whole world, so must be able to cope with huge variations in temperature, altitude, fuel quality, emissions regs, etc., with a large factor of safety. A (good) remap will fine tune these parameters to suit local conditions.

The other problem is emissions. The sorts of standards the manufacturers need to meet for new cars (over the whole life, like at 200k+ miles) are not the same standards as you have to met when you go to get an MOT. That means that the chip tuner has a lot more flexibility and can liberate mire horsepower. There's a definite environmental impact though.

Pike – what was the torque on it? Currently got about 430lbs-ft – a remap gets me to 520 with bhp jump from 300ish t0 350 but just not confident that the rest of the car (already under a lot of pressure) would cope. TBH if that sort of power and torque isn't enough, you need to move to a racetrack! Was the Alfa still driveable with all that torque through the front wheels?!

Steveo – if anything a remap will exaggerate that "on off" power thing – that got my goat in our Astra (150 1.9CDTi) – nothing happens until over 2k rpm, then the turbo kicked in, it went really well but game over by just over 4k rpm. I learned to change gear very quickly!

The current car has two turbos, one for low revs and a bigger one for higher revs so there's no "gap" in power delivery – makes a huge difference in driveability.

Speed12 – where do you work? OEM or aftermarket?

The current car has two turbos, one for low revs and a bigger one for higher revs so there's no "gap" in power delivery – makes a huge difference in driveability.

That step change in power can be alleviated a bit even with just a single turbo and good tuning (Especially if you're not looking for the raggedy edge of engine output), but it's just a sticky plaster over a break, ultimately you either get on with 1 turbo or you don't, but the sequential turbo setups I've been in don't seem to manage it very well either with a nice dip between the two!

ck – I know when the 2nd turbo kicks in (from asking a BMW engineer) but I genuinely cannot tell from the feel of the car. It's very seamless – not like the single turbo diesels I've driven where the lack of oomph pre-turbo can actually be quite dangerous then all hell (briefly) breaks loose when it kicks in.

The Jag bi-turbo 3.0 diesel engine is a good un too – very similar sort of unit. No one else seems to have caught on yet (apart from on four pot units).

ck – I know when the 2nd turbo kicks in (from asking a BMW engineer) but I genuinely cannot tell from the feel of the car.

Well if anyoen was going to nail the good drivability and no dip it would be BMW I suppose, well done them! Do they blow-through or bypass, do you know?

ck – ashamed to admit that I don't know! It's a small turbo for low rpm then a bigger one for higher revs – they do act sequentially though (not just to big turbos as in a "twin" turbo).

Was just curious as the last one I played with was a subaru with sequential small/large with a strange bypass valve system, it was the motion of that valve system that took time and left an unpleasant dip, but blow-through is less efficient, if you get chance to have a look I'd be interested to hear, but otherwise leave me to my geekery! 🙂

Was just curious as the last one I played with was a subaru with sequential small/large with a strange bypass valve system, it was the motion of that valve system that took time and left an unpleasant dip,

I think it can be engineered out. There have been plenty of homebuilt cars with both supercharger and turbo to give low down torque and high power (I can remember a mid-engined Fiesta in C&CC), with apparently no driveability issues on the changeover.

The constraints of a production car are rather different though.