My roadbike brakes aren't too good but i know nothing about upgrading them. Are they all the same size? Shifters are Shimano 105 STI dual levers. Any recommendations?

TIA

Kev

you still running the standard pads? i'd give these a go before you spend a bit more money on a full upgrade. there a good bit better than standards

http://www.dotbike.com/ProductsP5993.aspx?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=5&utm_campaign=DPL

I've a set of Ultegra 6600 brakes in immaculate condition with virtually new pads

£40

posted, email for pics

All road bike brakes are equally rubbish. I have Dura race and some cheapo unbranded ones. Neither work in the wet.

Are they all the same size?

Yes (unless you get long drop ones, but you'd have to make a special effort to get those). The thing is, that also means they all have more or less the same leverage ratio, and given there's not a lot of flex in any caliper brake, the actual force on the pads for a given lever force varies little between different road brakes no matter how much you pay. The difference is all in the pads.

All road bike brakes are equally rubbish. I have Dura race and some cheapo unbranded ones. Neither work in the wet.

Indeed – that's why you see so many riders speeding downhill out of control whenever it rains in the TdF 🙄

andrewh – Member
All road bike brakes are equally rubbish. I have Dura race and some cheapo unbranded ones. Neither work in the wet.

Really???

I run Ultegra on my DeRosa and have never had a drama with braking…

I know what andrew means to be honest. I have Ultegra brakes with similar pads and when you first put them on in the wet it takes a second or two to clear the rims of water, but that's just rim brakes. It's only because we're often so used to riding with disk brakes that it's noticeable I think.

I remember when I first started road riding, I was out on a training ride in the wet and the bike had slick chrome rims. Now they were crap in the wet. I was caning up through New Mills town centre and the chap in front of me stopped at a crossing. I cannoned into the back of him with my brake lever touching the bars and the tendons in my arms standing out like cables. Pringled my front wheel completely.

Any road brake of Tiagra levels or above can be set up to good levels of braking. Dura ace is bloody outstanding, certainly as good as the tyre grip levels can cope with. .
If not it's a set up issue.

As Samurai said, roadies might think DA brakes are great but when one is used to Formula R1s, Hope C2s and Magura HS33s all raod bike brakes are indeed equally rubbish.
Circuit training with a bunch of roadies when I'm on my SS (Maguras) it always surprises me how early they have to brake, and I'm not leaving it especially late, just riding normally, a bit of an effort to avoid rear-ending them sometimes.

Perhaps too obvious, but make sure you rims is clean and free of anything slippy, then set your brakes up/have them set up.

I have two road bikes – one with Ultegra 6600s and the other with BB7s. There really is no comparison.

Softer pads,
decent, clean wheels!

Stiffer calipers Like Ultegra but don't forget road brakes are not mtb disc brakes.

Swalsey & Zaskar, this is my point about them not working in the wet, very difficult to keep the rims clean and they are usless if I don't, even my DA ones. Magura HS33s by comparison still work perfectly well when the rim is filthy.

Why do roadies still insist on using out-dated cable systems? A Dura-ace caliper is only 70g lighter than entire Formaula R1. And anyone remember the HS66 brakes? Surely if XTR/XT/LX ca hae dual control an HS66-style brake can be made to work as a combined shifter unit.

I would definitely try some decent quality pads before changing your brakes. It will probably make them a lot better, and at least you will have good pads for your new brakes if you decide you still need them.

In reply to andrewh:

Roadies use whatever kit is available to them. Suppliers tend to produce kit to meet the needs of pro teams. Pro teams can only use whatever is sanctioned by the UCI. Hence road bikes have cable operated rim brakes 🙁

There is a huge difference between rim brakes and disk brakes but let's not forget that road bikes have a much smaller contact point with the road. It could also be argued that there is less need to have such dramatic stopping power on a road bike – but this is a point of opinion.

There is also a difference in the quality of road brakes I have some frog leg cantis on my commuting bike and DA brakes on my other bike. I find that the DA brakes are better.

Brake pad compounds make a big difference as well. Softer equals better.

If descending in the wet it can be helpful to drag the brakes slightly to keep the brakes 'primed' for the corners etc when they will be needed.

So, in answer to the OP: first step (and cheapest) – try some different pads. If that doesn't help then try changing your no name calipers for branded ones. Beyond that you are perhaps expecting disk brake performance from something that can't deliver it.

Why do roadies still insist on using out-dated cable systems? A Dura-ace caliper is only 70g lighter than entire Formaula R1. And anyone remember the HS66 brakes? Surely if XTR/XT/LX ca hae dual control an HS66-style brake can be made to work as a combined shifter unit.

The weight of the calipers might be only 70g, then you have to add in the weight increase that would be needed for the frame and forks. Plus on a pure road bike how often do you really need to brake? remember that there isn't a huge amount of rubber in contact with the ground to do the braking.

Finally a suspect the UCI might whinge about hot discs and the result if there is a crash in the peloton.

Cheap claipers can be way poorer than decent brands like shimano.

Thanks for all the replies. I should have added that the original calipers are going rusty so i want to replace them anyway. Bike is a lemond and i think they built it down to a price.

Kev

maxlite – can you email me some pix rs4kev AT mac.com

Rusty?
105s are perfectly good stirups.
I've never found braking an issue in the wet even in a bunch of sixty riders with wheels one inch away from each others. And even in the dry the slightest touch is all that's needed. I think discs on 20mm 145PSI tyres might be a bit over braked.

Can't you strip yours down and clean them with solvents, dry off and apply some GT85 and wipe down. Even removing them from the frame and wiping the mounting surfaces might help as you can get a bit of stiction there.

Levers are 105's but calipers are no brand.

I find the 105 brakes on my commuter bike verging on terrifying at times when compared to the Dura Ace on my race bike!

Cheap callipers don't last either, the Tiagra ones originally on the commuter bike seized solid after a winter's use.

I would have been agreeing with how rubbish road bike brakes are a few years ago. However, I got a new bike and the brakes are brilliant. Same brakes, new bike. Stiffer fork and frame must make a huge difference. I never feel like the brakes are poor.

I would try changing the pads and making sure the rims are clean.

only real issue I've had with road brakes is tyre grip in the wet limiting how much you can brake – they lock up pretty easily.

Cost me a crash and a new fork the first time it happened…

njee20 – Member

Cheap callipers don't last either, the Tiagra ones originally on the commuter bike seized solid after a winter's use.
Ain't that cos they are wet & salty all the time?

The Tiagra lever is a bit stiff (I always have a squeeze in bike shops) 105 and upwards are far more buttery.

Just clean them properly, grease where sensible and use good quality brake blocks.
If you're confusing the ability to do lots of skids with stopping then you might as well put some turbo training tyres on and find a wet street as they'll give you the impression that they're really good brakes without actually doing anything.

In terms of leverage, there isn't much mechanical advantage between cheap and expensive road brakes. The geometry is the same.

The main difference is in how long they stay working well. This is down to the linkages and pivots used, whether they are bushings, bearings, fit, quality and hardness/flex of materials used etc.

Look at the sheer number of moving parts in a dual pivot road brake, and you'll soon understand why the more expensive brakes using better pivot hardware stay working better for longer. As Njee mentioned, cheaper brake pivots are more prone to seizing up since they are not manufactured to as close tolerance in the first place, are made of less long-lasting materials and are not as well sealed. No different to the difference between cheaper and more expensive MTB components really.

You can make a big difference to cheaper brakes by upgrading the pad holders, the pads themselves, the cables and keeping all of the moving parts well lubricated. Taking each in turn:

1) Pad Holders
Don't under estimate the flex that can come from cheaper plastic pad holders under the pressure of what is actually quite a bit of force generated by the levers. Metal pad holders are much stiffer and surprisingly do make a big difference.

2) Pads
Dry weather general braking isn't much different from pad to pad. You'll really notice the difference in the wet and on longer descents where better pads fade less.

3) Cables
So much lost power is lost through poor quality inners stretching, and poor quality or worn outers compressing and absorbing the power generated at the lever. This particularly applies to the rear brake where the cable run is longer.

4) Lubrication
It is really important to keep the pivots well lubricated and running smoothly. Think suspension pivots and linkages. There are often more in a single dual pivot brake than on an average suspension bike. You wouldn't let your suspension pivots and bearings run dry for months, yet people think you can on road calipers. This isn't the case. A squirt of GT85 will work wonders, and taking them appart is a fiddly and technical job.

Ultimately, if you change all of the above, you might as well just buy better brakes. They will inherently flex less since they are made of better materials and to closer tolerances. You still need to maintain the pivots, keep them lubricated etc, but at least you have a better starting point.

And, bear in mind as one poster said, road brakes are meant to slow you down, not stop you dead. They are not designed for the constant and extreme speed changes that MTB disc brakes are. They are designed to slow you down gently and carve off speed, not stop you dead. Of course, you want the security of having something strong in an emergency, but comparing them to disc brakes isn't quite "apples with apples" given their different intended use.