Can someone explain these movable rear wings to me please?

Not so much the technology, I understand why they’re beneficial, more the rules of the implementation. I take it there are zones on each circuit where they can be used but not on the first lap. The bit that’s confusing me is when they’re permitted. You have to be behind another car, but is it more than a second? How do they know? How is it enforced?

Ta.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzp678dkKiQ[/video]

Isn’t the zone where it can be used predefined for each track?
Then, not for the first two laps, and only if you are less than a second behind.
Cpntrolled by the FIA I assume, via computer magic.
http://www.f1rules.com/f1-drs/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_Reduction_System

EDIT That video is better

sensors measure the gap between you and the car in front at certain points and then enable it so the driver can use it …if you are not within this zone you cannot operate it hence it is inoperable at rest so to speak and has to be enabled

splendid, thanks.

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

And Valencia

I think at Canada there will be two zones where you can use it.

And Valencia

And none in Monaco…

And none in Monaco…

I thought they were, have they recently changed their minds?

And another thing….. (thick content)

Why don’t they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly ‘need’ low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

They need fatter tyres for suspension init?

Am i right in thinking fuel stops no longer exist in F1? Was this banned on safety grounds? Next logical step in my opinion would be to get rid of pitstops all together by making a tyre capable of running an entire race. Then drivers would have to race instead of relying on pit strategy to gain track position innit.

re-fuelling was banned to promote over taking on the track instead of overtaking during the pitstops.
As for tyre size I haven’t a clue why mainly due to regs and that they have plenty of experience in the aerodynamics so they feel no need to change. iirc Michelin wont become a tyre manufacture because the tyre size isn’t a low profile so doesn’t fit their marketing strategy.
And yes there is now a drs zone in/after the tunnel in Monaco. so there may be a few crashes I reckon as it sounds mental to have it there

i like this whole DRS, no re-fuelling, tyres that ‘fall off the cliff’ and leave ‘marbles’ of rubber all over the track and boooooooost (kers or however it’s spelt). races are much more exciting to watch, lots of overtaking, constantly changing leader board, having to pit first instead of last… good stuff.

next stage is banana skins and red/green shells

Tyre size and the high sidewall is due to the wheel diameter being fixed in regs at 13″.

Another thing about tyres is around 50% of the suspension travel is in the tyres, which is why tyre pressures are so critical.

Why don’t they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly ‘need’ low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

Wouldn’t the incredible amount of power produced by F1 cars just rip lo-pro tyres to shreds?

And they’re very soft compared to normal road tyres, so lo-pros would be down to the carcass within a lap or two, surely?

At any rate, with just a couple of cm of suspension, I’d imagine having large volume tyres is a bonus.

F1 is a sport which is full of regulations designed to keep the speed down, and designers who try to overcome the restrictions.

Lower profile tyres can provide higher grip, but the biggest reason to have them is to enable a larger brake disc to fit inside the wheel.

Extreme low profile tyres are just a fashion accessory and make driving horrible. Look at the new Mini rally cars. They use something like 195/65 tyres. One of the best handling saloon cars was the Mk1 BMW M3. It had 175/70s

Bit I’m finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you’ve got absolutely no idea who’s doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy’s played out, and then it’s just a slithery procession to the flag.

Wouldn’t the incredible amount of power produced by F1 cars just rip lo-pro tyres to shreds?

And they’re very soft compared to normal road tyres, so lo-pros would be down to the carcass within a lap or two, surely?
Stick to the discussions about social engineering, elf.

I’m asking perfectly reasonable questions. If you can’t answer them, fine. No need to be an arse though is there?

Why don’t they use low profile tyres given that performance cars on the road allegedly ‘need’ low profile tyres for optimal grip etc?

Because that ‘need’ is bollocks. Low profile tyres are mostly about looks (and ruining the ride of your car).

OK, the answer to your questions are:
No
and
No

Being a low pro tyre has nothing to do with how much rubber it has, or how durable that rubber is.

Well come on then, clever clogs; explain why.

And normal road car tyres are as soft as F1 tyres are they?

normal road car tyres are as soft as F1 tyres are they?

No – of course not, which is why they don’t wear out in 50 miles use even if they are low pro.

Why is it you think low pro tyres would be less durable?

Well I’d imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

However I could be completely wrong, which is why I asked the question.

I’m sure there are good reasons why F1 stuff is the way it is, in spite of whatever regulations may limit things.

I don’t think you actually know though, and are merely just trying to look clever by pouring scorn on someone else.

I can’t help it if you feel unfulfilled and undervalued in life. Don’t take it out on me please.

When the current negotiations were taking place for the supply of tyres [which Pirelli won], Michelin’s pitch was to move to 18″ rims and low profile tyres

I’d imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

How would that make a difference to the durability of the tread (which is what you were asking about before?)

Just examining how you came up with these ideas which don’t appear to be based on anything very scientific – I already gave a very basic explanation.

Don’t try and transfer your personal inadequacies in my direction 😉

I know it wasn’t directed at me, BUT, Is there any need for this:

[bitching]

I can’t help it if you feel unfulfilled and undervalued in life. Don’t take it out on me please.

[/bitching]

i think im right in saying that instead of the stresses going into the sidewall, they go into the wheel rim if it is a low profile tyre, and so they wear out no quicker.

On the tyre compond point…………..

Average track day rule of thumb is something like 20laps = 1000 miles of wear and tear on the car/tyres/brakes etc.

So 60 laps = F1 race = 3000 miles ‘normal wear and tear’.

Normal car ~100bph, F1 car ~800bhp.

Assuming tyre wear is proportional to power, the F1 car is actualy doing the equivalent to 24,000miles to a set of tyres, which is pretty good going!

Bit I’m finding this season dull.

😯

So 60 laps = F1 race = 3000 miles ‘normal wear and tear’

Which track has a 50 mile lap?

uplink – Member
Which track has a 50 mile lap?

I think he’s assuming that 100hp compared to 800 hp results in 8x the wear.

So 20 = 1000
60 = 3000
3000 x 8 = 24000

Assuming tyre wear is proportional to power, the F1 car is actualy doing the equivalent to 24,000miles to a set of tyres, which is pretty good going!

I’d suspect it’s a lot more complex than that (likely to be a higher power of power IYSWIM, but also lots of wear due to cornering where all the downforce makes a big difference). Though you’re also forgetting that they get through several sets a race.

Sometimes the fronts wear out quicker than the rears too.

Bit I’m finding this season dull.

Because all the overtaking is just a side show to the main event, and unless you’re privy to the teams’ tyre strategies you don’t know whether the front runner has an advantage over the guy in 7th place.

and unless you’re privy to the teams’ tyre strategies

TBH, I’m not entirely sure they have much more than a very basic strategy until well into the race. They’re continually re-evaluating and reacting to conditions and track position.
As we know what tyres they have available and the rules governing what they use first [for the top 10], it’s not too difficult to figure out.
On most circuits the front runners will have 2 basic strategies, they’ll usually decide which one after the first few laps

Elfinsafety – Member
Well I’d imagine the stresses on the sidewalls would be too much for a lo-pro tyre.

Stresses on the sidewalls are actually likely to be higher on larger profile tyres than on smaller ones….pressure dependent of course.

uplink – Member
As we know what tyres they have available and the rules governing what they use first [for the top 10], it’s not too difficult to figure out.

+1

Bit I’m finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you’ve got absolutely no idea who’s doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy’s played out, and then it’s just a slithery procession to the flag.

You mean like Sebastien Vettel going backwards at the end of the Chinese GP or Lewis Hamilton pushing Vettel all the way to the end yesterday?
Moto Gp fanboy at all?

Bit I’m finding this season dull. If you watch the race, you’ve got absolutely no idea who’s doing well or badly until the last 10 or so laps afrter the tyre strataegy’s played out, and then it’s just a slithery procession to the flag.

Dull? You need to check yourself for a pulse.

I’m no brainbox, but I managed to follow what was going on, who was running what tyres, who had a set of softs left etc, facinating.

If F1 is anything this year, it is not a procession.