Right, I've fired off an email to my employer (Glasgow Uni), and the cyclescheme about this, but you guys are like the Delphi Oracle as far as I'm concerned, so here goes.

Way back in June I ordered a Genesis Croix de Fer through a local bike shop via the cyclescheme. The bike was ordered, and a week or so later (13th July) I received my voucher for the sum of £999 made out to the bike shop, and my employer started taking the payments from me at the end of July. I am still, however, awaiting the bike. I've been reasonably patient, it wasn't the bike shops fault that their supplier kept stringing them and myself along.

However, last night my beloved Orange 5 snapped. The top tube has parted company from the seat tube 🙁 and I'm not in the financial position to replace the 3 yr old (1 yr out of warranty),frame.

What I'm asking the Cyclescheme, my employer, and now the font of all knowledge, the STW massif, is this.

What are the chances that I can cancel the voucher with the first shop, and strike a deal with another, local Orange dealership for a new frame? Has anyone been in a similar situation where they've ordered a bike through the scheme that isn't available and subsequently changed the order?

Cheers

B. 8)

R.I.P my truly loved Johnny 5 😥

The shop shouldn't have taken payment for the bike they don't have, I can't believe you've not taken issue with that.

Would you want to be making loan repayments when you've not actually had the money!?

If it's just a frame then you are buggered. Has to be a complete bike.

You're not allowed to just "order a frame" in any case.

The original shop will not have been paid if you haven't given them the voucher. They'll still have an order with their suppliers and unless they can get that cancelled, they'd end up out of pocket.

njee20 – Member

The shop shouldn't have taken payment for the bike they don't have, I can't believe you've not taken issue with that.

Would you want to be making loan repayments when you've not actually had the money!?

It's not a loan.

It was an analogy. As a shop we'd never take the voucher until the second the customer walks out with the bike, it's stupid to do otherwise, particularly if there's some doubt about being able to get the bike in the first place.

Aye – but the cyclescheme agreement is that you start paying when supplied with the voucher by your employer, whether or not you've actually bought a bike.

I was under the impression that other folk had gotten frames from the scheme. 😕 As far as allowing my employer to take the payments, I've had a continuous stream of "It'll be here next week" excuses from the bike shop, who to be fair are at the mercy of their supplier, although they could have found out quite easily, as I eventually did, just what tosh their supplier was talking. Anyway, I let the issue of the payments coming out of my wages without my having received the goods slide as the money would have to be paid at some point anyway.

Will the bike shop, a Genesis stockist, really be out of pocket? If they do ever get the bike, they'll still be able to sell it. I don't see the problem there. Surely I'm the only one out of pocket at the moment? 🙄

Beagleboy – Member

Will the bike shop, a Genesis stockist, really be out of pocket? If they do ever get the bike, they'll still be able to sell it.

Will they? When? In the meantime, they'll be invoiced by their supplier and will be out of pocket waiting on that sale. That's money tied up that could have been used to stock a better selling item.

Sorry Druid, I should have realised it was all my fault in the first place. 🙄

I'm not trying to apportion blame. I'm assuming that the shop was given a mutually satisfactory delivery date by their suppliers? Can they cancel the order? At least that way you can get them to order in something that's available, that you can start riding now.

it IS a loan, i don't officially own my speccy alice until i make the final payment.

you can't use the scheme to buy parts only (like a frame).

go to the shop, and smash someone's face in (this is glasgow), and then start killing customers, one every hour that you don't get a bike.

you're paying for a bike you don't have, you've been doing this for 2 months!? and you're still trying to be patient?! – i'd be filling a bath with quicklime…

They've screwed up, I think you should be able to walk away, the fact it's tied up in Cyclescheme is likely to cause problems though.

You're not allowed to just "order a frame" in any case.

I got a SC Heckler frame on cyclescheme from Julies in Leciester….

Talk to them nicely and they will let you buy anything you want!

I got a SC Heckler frame on cyclescheme from Julies in Leciester….

They may not thank you for publicising this fact…

you can by just a frame IF! you have a friendly LBS who puts a bike on the cyclescheme paperwork 😯

have a word with the shop you've bought through see if they can just cancel your existing order with their suppliers then you should basicly have £999 worth of credit with them to spend on something they can source in a more realistic time frame.

Can't see you getting away with that tbh.

In a 'i am a stiff' way can i recommend you do not attempt to buy frames… you are playing with the Inland Revenue – they dont take kindly to tax 'issues'. Its a bike to work scheme not a new shiny part to work scheme.

Also – suppliers dont string shops along. They can just as much be let down by their vendors as you are by them. Stuff does get delayed for loads of reasons – they probably dont have one but they will have had a proposed date of delivery. It sometimes doesnt work out perfectly.

If you bend/break the rules you can get whatever you want, assuming the LBS will play along and your employer won't notice.

The LBS could just give you the cash, minus the fee they have to pay to cyclescheme. You get a £910 and pay back about £640! Of course, that's tax evasion… Doing this is just slightly further along the scale of naughtiness to buying a frame only.

Sorry Druid, just feeling sorry for myself 😕

Spoken to the bike shop chappie just now and he's Ok about me cancelling the order. He reckons he's got at least four or five customers interested in the same bike, if it ever turns up, and will be able to sell it no bother. What he can't really offer me is a decent mountain bike as it's not really that sort of shop. He reckons my best bet is to cancel the Cyclescheme voucher and go elsewhere.

There's another shop in Glasgow, an Orange dealership that I've spent literally thousands of pounds in. I'll see what the cyclescheme and my employer says, and then maybe I can sort a deal out with them.

As an aside, the bike shop guy says that the payments definitely should not have started coming out of my wages until Cyclescheme had received the completed voucher, so my employers are in the wrong at the moment….according to him anyway. 🙂

First off, if the shop have been invoiced for something that hasn't even been delivered, they are mugs.

Secondly, you can put just about anything through the Cycle to Work scheme as long as you have an understanding employer. If you read the criteria for what is eligible, it can be applied to pretty much any piece of kit you like. Most of the restrictions, like the £1000 limit, are imposed by the scheme providers or money lending restrictions.

it IS a loan, i don't officially own my speccy alice until i make the final payment.

Not it's not a loan. if it's a loan it doesn't qualify for tax relief. It's a HIRE agreement. You may never own your bike if your employer does not choose to offer you the chance to buy it.

and to the OP – good luck, I'd cancel the order with Shop 1 as they're so understanding and start looking around

I'd have thought a lot of LBSs would be happy to bend rules
at the end of the day it's £££'s through the till (mine is!)
even if it were just a frame it's still bike kit therefore sort of for the intended perpose, I'm in no way suggesting getting cash
don't really see the problem myself

Come on hands up Who's bought something on bike scheme which never gets used for their commute/don't even commute on bike at all? I suspect on here its a lot!

last year I bought commuter then spent what was left out of the £1000 on completly unrelated and incompatable components for my MTBs

this year I'm specing a custom build where the frame is going to cost near a £1000 on it's own I'll then pay the rest. Is that breaking the rules too?
I bet a lot of people have bent the rules I don't think the IR are going to hunt any of us down for it. we're not talking serious fraud here are we?
It's all within the spirit of the scheme to get people cycling for whatever reasons health/enviroment…

Keith, whilst I applaud your ingenuity, explicit examples of how to make the most of the scheme are best kept away from public forums.

The fact is, the legislation as it is written is very open-ended. Its possible to spend a significant amount of money on a wide range of bicycles, parts and accessories, and stay within the terms of the scheme.

Circumventing explicit regulations is understandable, but being seen to do so undermines the scheme as a whole.

we're not talking serious fraud here are we?

As long as it's not serious fraud, then that's OK 🙄

There was a similar scheme for computers. It got stopped, because people were abusing it.

we're not talking serious fraud here are we?

That's probably what people who fiddle their benefits say.

It's this kind of abuse that will get the scheme stopped probably. I understand it is being reviewed.

Well said Guys. Careless talk and all that!

We run our own scheme at work and would be gutted if the IR pulled the plug. Talking about all the loopholes on a public forum can only contribute to its premature demise.

fair enough mums the word then!

just trying to help the OP

im not saying it is right, but neither is the government right in sending young men ill-equipped to war & death! Oh yeah and all the expenses scandal and tax-payers money being used for there lavish lifestyles!
I bought a SC Heckler frame, I ride it so I am doing what the government want us to do – GET FIT & CUT DOWN ON EMISSIONS.

Finally I pay a higher-rate tax, so i dont really save that much on cycle scheme!

@ 29erKeith

Careful now! 😉

I bought a SC Heckler frame, I ride it so I am doing what the government want us to do – GET FIT & CUT DOWN ON EMISSIONS.

If you ride it on journeys which you would have had to make by car if you were unable to buy anything other than a complete bike, then fair enough.

Finally I pay a higher-rate tax, so i dont really save that much on cycle scheme!

You save more if you pay a higher rate of tax.

"Finally I pay a higher-rate tax, so i dont really save that much on cycle scheme!"

Classic!

There was a similar scheme for computers. It got stopped, because people were abusing it.

Really? I thought it was scraped because it wasn't delivering on its intended purpose i.e. to provide computers to people who would not otherwise buy them due to cost. As it happens it was mostly used by mid to well off middle class folks etc not "the poor".

Whether this is entirely true I am not sure.

"As it happens it was mostly used by mid to well off middle class folks etc not "the poor"."

Sounds the same as Cyclescheme to me!

beagle… drop me an email 🙂

Come on hands up Who's bought something on bike scheme which never gets used for their commute/don't even commute on bike at all? I suspect on here its a lot!

My Tricross was bought for the purpose of commuting and has been used for that more than it has for anything else. I've probably commuted on it more than any of the other individual bikes in my fleet as well, but that's not saying much as I prefer to do mountain biking in the evenings rather that daily commutes!

I'm eligible for another bike-to-work scheme bike now and would consider doing it if I could get a frame, however with a fleet of bikes already (and enought parts for another couple) there isn't really anything I fancy under £1K that the shop we use (Edinburgh Bicycle) sells.

Really? I thought it was scraped because it wasn't delivering on its intended purpose i.e. to provide computers to people who would not otherwise buy them due to cost. As it happens it was mostly used by mid to well off middle class folks etc not "the poor".

The bike to work scheme seems to be used by mid- to well-off, middle-class folks to buy shiny things, rather than to buy bikes to ride to work.

Well said Miketually although i think it does fit in with the broader govt policy of getting people fitter. All this talk of fiddling the scheme though is just daft IMO on an open forum

Miketually – I'd say that the scheme looks like it is abused if you just looked at a cycling forum, but as someone who runs a scheme for a large number of businesses around london, the vast majority of bikes are used for commuting.

The scheme does work, and while salary sacrifice will always benefit higher tax payers, again the vast majority of people taking up the scheme are standard rate tax payers.

This is demonstrated by the fact that our most popular bikes are £500-600 commuters, and generally as un-shiny as possible so as not to attract the magpie effect of bike thiefs!

talk on a public forum of fiddling the scheme isn't a great idea, IMHO.

Beagleboy, I just found this thread – not been used for a while, but hope you're still following it.
I also put down a £100 deposit on a Cyclescheme Genesis Croix de Fer in November 09 and I have been paying for it out of may wages, but just like you I have not got the bike.
Did you get yours in the end? Could you swap for another bike??