Went to that London the other day and paid a visit to the Natural History museum, how is it possible to deny that evolution exists? 😯

Can of worms. Believing requires nothing more than that you believe. What you believe is determined by where and when you're born, and largely, what you're told.

One of the best quotes, but don't know whos:

When you explain to me why you dismiss all other gods, I'll explain why I dismiss yours

All your doubts are answered here –
http://www.icr.org/

I am still good mates with a couple of rather serious Christians who also did Geology at university (where I met them). They had no trouble at all reconciling geology and particularly palaentology with their faith.

I once had the delightful experience of lunch with them plus a creationist type who'd done a talk to the university's Christian Union about how it was actually the Devil Himself (!) coming down to rearrange animal bones and hide them where scientists would find them, so as to 'make 2 plus 2 into 5' and make people doubt the Book of Genesis. That was an entertaining discussion to choke on my sprouts over. 😀

We've got a friend who is a vicar who used to be a genetic scientist. Amazingly bright chap and if there's anything that will explain away creationism it's an understanding of genetics and evolution but there you go.

Remember folks, blind faith in an unproven creator is a virtue and will help one avoid an eternity in hell-fire and brimstone.

Who are we to question the current, and decidedly man-made, beliefs of powerful, domineering religions such as the Catholic church or slightly wishy-washy ones like the C of E?

For every piece of evidence, somebody has thought up an alternative, implausible explanation. How can you doubt this?

I'm sickened.

Next thing you'll be saying that the monarch is not in place due to divine intervention….

there's people who will blow them self up ( and others) in the name of god so why some other idiots who think the earth was made in 7 day by a god doesn't surprise me at all. Evidence is nothing faith is every thing!!!!

shoot them.

lookma- religious philosophy was my subject, now ill have a weapon to slow you down on our next ride. you will grind to a halt with boredom.

I knew I shouldn't have clicked on that icr link above… 🙄

The promotion of creationism is a recent thing, imported from America, and its sad how its polarised the debate (actually there shouldn't be a debate, but nevermind)
I have a number of customers who would probably fall into the reasonable, moderate christian category, but one day I was chatting to them, complementing them on several Monkey puzzle trees in their garden. As I explained to them how and why Araucaria's got their wonderful forms and how they were found thoughout the whole southern hemisphere, I use the phrases 'millions of years' and 'evolution' I could see their smiles drop.
( they have since cut the trees down, to their shame)
My aunt is a devout Catholic and despite the fact that offical Vatican doctrine is, to its credit, accepting of Evolution , she has been influenced by evangelical creationists- she regards fossils as 'evil hoaxes, made up by the most sinful of scientists, paleontologists( that would, err ,be directed at me too! )and that Genesis represents the literal truth, again, not something that her own faith teaches.

I know a few Christians, not one is a creationist.

Scripture is never wrong it is 100% right, therefore the world was created in 6 days (not 7 as some people think).

Everything must fit with that, all other gods and points of view are false. Evil spirits, demons or Satan himself are trying to fool you, remember the bible warns of false prophets to mislead and confuse and as it is never wrong what more proof do you need 😉

I suppose I would describe myself as a creationist, in that I don't believe we exist here as afreak of blind chance. However, I am a bit mystified how otherwise normal people can think the world was knocked up in six days about 6,000 years ago.
So, before we have another slagging of all religions, can we be clear who we mean when we talk of deluded creationist. Do we mean "Genesis is bang on" creationist? Or anyone who doesn't accept that the universe threw up humans randomly? (Or would that still be considered a form of creation?)

i love a bit of JC but believing in the bible as literal fact!! any hand book is written to tell you what to do. control is the order. read between the lines and meditate on the teaching will yield something else. im partial to the hindu scriptures as, sanskrit is a language open for personal interpretation, and bases its self on self development. there is also room for evolution in there.

There's one of these threads, what, once a month or so?

In all that time I've never once seen one of the Christians on here say that creation as told in the OT is fact, but there there's always plenty of the anti-Christians telling what the Christians think.

Anyone who uses the bible (or any religious text) as 'proof' that the bible is correct is not only guilty of extreme gullibility (is that a word?) but of a moronic grasp of any form of intellectual rigor.

If you wish to believe that a particular deity created the world and all in it then that's your affair. If however you subscribe to the dogma of a C19th reactionary anti-Darwinist movement then you are an idiot.
Evolutionary science is not perfect, but the evidence has been stacking up for some time now and the holes in the theory getting ever smaller.
Sticking your head into a collection of bronze-age creation myths and rejecting scientific discourse is self-defeating IMO.

Why can't these fundamentalists accept that evolution is god's way of getting things done? (if you believe in that god of course)

Everyone believes in some things that are not true. Don't worry about it.

avdave2 – Member
Everyone believes in some things that are not true. Don't worry about it.

You mean that I'm not the riding god that I think I am?

avdave2 a man who speaks the truth. unless i apply his statement to his post. in which case i have nothing to worry about. win/win 🙂

I believe in BigMac Earth-we are awaiting for the aliens who created us to come back for Drive thru…

All Religion? LOL good to control fruitcakes and teach a righteous way to live that nobody ever does…

I love science btw but not coursework… 😉

I'm happy for people to have the right to believe whatever they like. Regretably that often is not reciprocated by those who chose make believe.

Personally it has always troubled me that being away with the fairies apparently is a basic qualification for all sorts of positions of power.

spamf, anyone who tells you that evolution is a process based on fluke or blindchance doesn't understand evolution.

there is nothing 'blind' about the life and death process of selection.
don't think 'survival of the fittest' – instead think 'removal of the least fit'…

(the slowest gazelle gets eaten, the skinniest inuit freezes to death. apply these forces over millions of years, and hey presto – speciation).

life, and evolution, will continue long after the human race is extinct.

don't think 'survival of the fittest' – instead think 'removal of the least fit'…

Not quite, it's more like "promotion of the most adaptable"

Creationism isn't really a tenet of Christianity, well…it is, and it isn't. It was developed as a theory in order to get a form of Christian belief taught in the American public schools system. American schools are supposed to be un-religious, that is, by law they cannot teach, for instance, that Christianity is the "real" or "true" faith, this upsets a lot of right wing fundamentalist Christian in the USA, in order to get past this, Creationism was developed as a "science" in order to get taught alongside Evolution…It didn't really work. Now, that's not to say that some Christians do believe wholeheartedly in it, they do, but most don't really pay it the sort of attention that a lot of secular people would seem to think they do.

I don't think the Anglican Church promotes it…

It doesn't bother me that people believe in creationalism but it bothers me greatly that some people believe in it and are trusted with power.

Well… I'm happy to nail my colours to the mast and say that I am a Bible believing Christian. The kind of creationism that I am happy with doesn't come from the USA, doesn't believe in 6 x 24hour periods (seems ridiculous- a day can equally be interpreted as a period) and doesn't have a problem with the evolution (not micro-evolution at least) or the Big Bang. If the Big Bang has everything starting from a singularity – ie nothing, it would seem to line up well with Genesis… 'God Spoke'…everything coming into being through knowledge/power(??).

Gets off soap-box… the thing that really troubles me about some of the recent STW posts are the comments that line up with Richard Dawkins' God Delusion. A lot of people seem to have simply swallowed all this without a critical look. Mr Dawkins philosophical arguments about religion seem to be seriously flawed in most areas and yet he has succeeded in convincing most people that his rationale is overwhelming and that nobody can challenge his views with any degree of intellectual rigour. NOT SO!!!

richard dawkins, another fanatic.

Well, I've never read anything by Dawkins and I think the deity-believers are all nuts.

2retro4u
Marin County, Cali

As an American and a big fan of Darwin, I apologize for the fools who have exported our worst cultural aspects to the Mother Country.

I have read "On the Origin of Species" several times. There are reasons why this is one of the greatest science books ever written, one being that Charles Darwin used logic and observation that we are all capable of to make his case.

Later discoveries showed that Darwin was off the mark in a few places, but in general had shot the centre out of the "ten ring." He made a bold prediction that took 90 years to be proven, but it shows why he laid the cornerstone of modern biology. He said that if his theory was correct, there had to be a physical embodiment of heredity, an actual substance that passed it along. 90 years later, Crick and Watson identified the chemical DNA which confers heredity.

In order to confront Darwin, creationists must isolate short passages without context, but the argument for his theory is continuous and must be read from first to last in order to be complete.

And why would that be Druidh? Have you spoken to them all to see what they believe and why? Impressed if you have.

Quite entertaining thread. Most people seem happy to accept that not all riders are the same (different styles, different preferences, different bikes etc etc) and that's fine. As soon as something vaguely about religion pops up suddenly all the people who have a faith (whatever it may be) are all nutters. As if all faiths are the same. As if all people who share the same faith are the same or even believe the same. Complicated matters but all nicely wrapped up in paper and a shiny bow, just in time for christmas by druidhs "they're all nuts".

Proper scientific that is. 🙂

I didn't say "all faiths", I said deity-believers.

There's one of these threads, what, once a month or so?

In all that time I've never once seen one of the Christians on here say that creation as told in the OT is fact, but there there's always plenty of the anti-Christians telling what the Christians think.

Thank you for pointing this out, Kenny Senior. These threads do become tedious.

It seems that there are a great number on here that prefer caricatures to genuine images. Alas (irony of ironies), bigotry seems to run more than one way.

Ok. I stand corrected. Doesn't answer the question though and the pool of people is not significantly smaller by limiting it to deity believers. Really. Not in the grand scheme of things. 😕

Creationism – don't get me started………….. 😆

hotfly

A lot of people seem to have simply swallowed all this without a critical look. Mr Dawkins philosophical arguments about religion seem to be seriously flawed in most areas and yet he has succeeded in convincing most people that his rationale is overwhelming and that nobody can challenge his views with any degree of intellectual rigour

That is even more ridiculous than your god beliefs. Just remind us all again what your faith intellectually rigourous beliefs are 🙄

I know a few Christians, not one is a creationist.

ditto

shoot them.

+1 (note that's for shooting rabid '6day' creationists, not 'nice' christians who bake cakes and do lots of charity work)

How can you be a Christian but pick and choose which bits of the bible, your own holy book, the foundation stone of your religion, to believe in?
…And you wonder why atheists take the mickey? Have a word fella, you're either in or out, its not a serve yourself buffet…

Doesn't Christian mean 'little Christ', that term deriving from the fact that they follow the teachings of Christ, as found in the New Testament Gospels?

I thought the Old Testament was seen by many Christians more as a history of the Jewish nation/race, more often than not highlighting the mistakes they made, so setting out why the new covenant offered through Jesus was necessary.

(Sorry if I've got this wrong, RE lessons were some years ago).

ernie_lynch wrote something not long ago explaining the relationship between the OT and NT very well.

How convenient…

flippin ell. well we are here whether we like it or not. todays actions count for everything. the begining is long gone.