This decision is driving me nuts! I have a 14″ On-one 456 atm which is a bit small but the 16″ is definitely too big. Otherwise the geometry is great, though I usually ride it at 120mm either singlespeed or Alfine hub and I really don’t need anything quite so bombproof.

I’ve narrowed it down to a 16″ Cotic Simple (new batch coming soon) or a 16″ Genesis Latitude 853 with an EBB for standard shells. The big advantage of the Latitude is that you can fit 1.5″ Revelation Team U-turn 110-140mm that are for sale in the US at less than £200 (!). So the Cotic is going to cost me at least £250 more overall with an equivalent fork.

Here are the specs at 90mm (sagged 120mm fork) from the websites:

Cotic Simple: head angle 69, seat angle 72
Genesis Altitude (2010): head angle 70, seat angle 73
Genesis Latitude (2011): head angle 69.5, seat angle 73.5
Genesis IO: head angle 69.5, seat angle 72.5 (I have one. BB is too high for me at 120mm though, and I’m not sure its slack enough).

My problem is that you just can’t find 16″ Cotics or Latitudes second hand (or to demo probably!) so it looks like I’ll have to buy blind. Other forum posts I’ve read have said the geometry of the Cotics and the Altitude is pretty much the same, but from above it looks like the Cotics are 1 degree slacker, which I think is really significant. The On-one 456 is definitely slacker than the Genesis IO I have, thats for sure. Has anyone ridden both a Cotic and an Altitude/Latitude, is the Cotic really that slack (about as slack as a On-one 456 with the same axle-to-crown)?

You cant go wrong with the Genesis if it have the Reynolds 853 tubing and it’s alot cheaper than the Cotic, I would go for the Genesis.

Not ridden both but own a Simple, it is loving this dry weather and just chomps up the hard/rutted/rooty ground! Mine is a medium and I am 5ft10.

Even if you buy new and don’t get on with it you should get a good price back on the second hand market (mine was £325.00 third hand purchased through the ad’s on ST, I paid what the seller was aksing as there were a few of us interested in a short space of time).

Good point. Wish I could find a 2nd hand 16″ BFE/Soul/Simple to try out first though.

I might do something silly and buy both frames to replace my 456 and my (rigid) IO. That would still work out cheaper than option 3: the Ibis Tranny…

I was having the same dilemma recently and posted on here to ask about sizing on the new X. Cy (cotic) answered my q on here AND invited me down for a try out on his own one to check sizing.To me that is another major consideration

I have a 16″ Soul if you want to have a go on it.

I used to have a 16″ 456 which was too big. Also used to ride a 14″ Inbred singlespeed which was too small. Used to have (and very reluctantly sold) a 16″ Cotic Soul and geometry was perfect.

Did ask on here a while ago for suggestions of 853 steel ss’s and my choice was pretty limited if I didn’t want a long top tube.

Got lucky with seeing a secondhand 16″ Simple on the Classifieds a few months back. Win win!

Soul was fitted with a 120mm fork. Simple has the 100mm fork from the Inbred.

To be truthful, I’d only had my Soul for 9 months from new and when it was stripped, I was shocked at how shonky the paintwork was. It wasn’t my only bike either. I personally think the Simple and Soul are overpriced.

Vortex: Thanks for the kind offer. I don’t think I’m going to be able to get out for a couple months though (When I’m too busy to ride I start wanting to change bikes and fettle hah).

Thanks for all your advice, I think I’ll get the Genesis + Revs now, but also keeping monitoring the classifieds for a 2nd hand 16″ Cotic to perform a decent comparison with somewhere down the line.