What are your opinions on the Christian content of these books?
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Chronicles of Narnia
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Posted 1 year ago #
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Very heavy, but the kids never seem to notice. I certainly didn't when i read hem and my kids now don't
Posted 1 year ago # -
I know it's there, how do you feel about the fact that it is?
Posted 1 year ago # -
i would say it is there, but as a kid it is actually quite well hidden. It comes across as the usual good v bad fairy story.
And because it is not obvious the problem is? I would say that any child who did pick up on it should have it explained fully to them. The implications what is it trying to tell etc. but i doubt many kids will ever realise until they to old to read the books.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Not bothered
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm a committed and possibly even evangelical atheist, and I couldn't care less, I would expect most kids don't care either, None of mine like the Narnia books but that's because they are bored by them more than anything.
It's only really contentious if you push very hard to make it so.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Never noticed any hidden meaning. But then I don't go looking for them either.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It's a hellva lot less noticeable than Battlestar Galactica.
Which doesnt say a lot.
In fact, who cares, if you like the story.
The bible is a nice story too, dont think thats real either.
Posted 1 year ago # -
the kids never seem to notice. I certainly didn't when i read hem and my kids now don't
Likewise, I loved the books as a kid, read them multiple times [1] and never noticed at all. In fact when the film was being made and people started getting irie about it I was puzzled. I have read some of C.S.Lewis's adult stuff like the Screwtape letters which are far more openly Christian so I did know he was religious.
[1]only the Arthur Ransome books got more page views
Posted 1 year ago # -
You don't notice it as a kid typically, no.
I'm a little suspicious of it, after all you could view it as subversive.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Father Christmas giving Susan the magical Horn was always a source of much mirth amongst me and my brother, I seem to remember...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm a little suspicious of it, after all you could view it as subversive
Would you let a child read Animal Farm, Gulivers Travels, etc, alot of stories have a subtext. Even nursery rhymes are far from innocent.
Posted 1 year ago # -
It far more damaging to stop children reading the classics of literature for fear of 'subversion' IMO.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I didn't read my kids 'Animal Farm' as a bedtime story because it's vastly over-rated. Amost as shite as 'Of Mice and Men'
Posted 1 year ago # -
I would not give Animal Farm to a kid to be honest, since it'll be entirely lost. Plus it's not anti-communist, it's more a denouncement of the Russian Revolution I think.
For clarification, I'm not stopping anyone from reading anything. This thread is purely academic
Posted 1 year ago # -
I didn't read my kids 'Animal Farm' as a bedtime story because it's vastly over-rated
By which literary critic?
it's more a denouncement of the Russian Revolution I think.
it's a critique of "-isms" in general
Posted 1 year ago # -
From memory though it's very closely based on events on Russia isn't it? Don't the characters have direct equals in real life?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes, Soviet Russia is the obvious model for the book, but it's more about how wickedness, indifference, ignorance, greed destroy any possibility of good government.
I would have no issue reading it to a child, at their level it's a allegorical story of good and evil. Most children understand it pretty well, they see and understand how the pigs become bad, and sympathize with the other creatures.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yep best off playing safe - read your kids H.P.Lovecraft instead ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
i would say it is better to make children read the bible than to say you must not, end of the day i may not believe much of what it says it explains some of the society in which we live, why things are the way they are.
Likewise there are many other books that may be "questionable" but it makes sense to read as they try and answer questions about life. I would say a parents role should be to explain not sensor. Obviously there has to be a limit, 5 year olds and 120 days of Sodom probably isn't a good idea, likewise Dantes Inferno, Dostoevsky Crime and Punishment, etc...
Posted 1 year ago # -
I never noticed any of it when I read it as a kid. TBH the christian parallels are obvious but it's not just a retelling of the cristian myths, there's some big differences too. A lot of it is drawn from pagan myths too.
Now how about the christian content of His Dark Materials then? That's more fun.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Who gives a poo about the Narnia films anyway? They're bloody awful by any standard. Why would you be letting your kids watch drivel like that when there are films like The Princess Bride and Charlie And The Chocolate Factory (original version of course) to watch?
Posted 1 year ago # -
The 'christian' aspect of these books is a bit of a myth. Modern Christians have tried to adopt CS Lewis as one of their own, desperate for a film or 2 they can let their kids watch
CS Lewis, like Tolkein, dabbled in christianity and other related beliefs. Their major books contain the grand archetypal myths of light, dark, good, evil etc, though they are actually far more Gnostic than modern christian. Lord of The Rings is almost pure gnostic.
Posted 1 year ago # -
BluePalomino: "Modern Christians have tried to adopt CS Lewis as one of their own"- He was raised christian, lapsed, but then converted/returned to the faith and was a practicing and devout Anglican til death. There's really no room for argument on this one
Posted 1 year ago # -
The 'christian' aspect of these books is a bit of a myth
have you read Lion witch Wardrobe??
Posted 1 year ago # -
Yes, Soviet Russia is the obvious model for the book, but it's more about how wickedness, indifference, ignorance, greed destroy any possibility of good government.
I would have no issue reading it to a child, at their level it's a allegorical story of good and evil. Most children understand it pretty well, they see and understand how the pigs become bad, and sympathize with the other creatures.
Absoutely. Children can easily be empathetic and have a basic critical awareness based on wanting to have a good life with other people they like. That's always got to be good. Not sure of any subtext in Narnia that might subvert children but the first film of the series (the only one I've seen) was a quite bland cookie cutter fantasy adventure. I'm sure loads of kids really enjoyed it though.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Oh, also: "The 'christian' aspect of these books is a bit of a myth."
Thank you wikipedia, here is the man himself apparently falling for the myth:
"Since Narnia is a world of Talking Beasts, I thought He [Christ] would become a Talking Beast there, as He became a man here. I pictured Him becoming a lion there because (a) the lion is supposed to be the king of beasts; (b) Christ is called "The Lion of Judah" in the Bible; (c) I'd been having strange dreams about lions when I began writing the work. The whole series works out like this.
The Magician's Nephew tells the Creation and how evil entered Narnia.
The Lion etc the Crucifixion and Resurrection.
Prince Caspian restoration of the true religion after corruption.
The Horse and His Boy the calling and conversion of a heathen.
The Voyage of the "Dawn Treader" the spiritual life (especially in Reepicheep).
The Silver Chair the continuing war with the powers of darkness
The Last Battle the coming of the Antichrist (the Ape), the end of the world and the Last Judgement"Posted 1 year ago # -
He was raised christian, lapsed, but then converted/returned to the faith and was a practicing and devout Anglican til death. There's really no room for argument on this one
Actually there's lots of room for argument
- Lewis, like his friend Tolkein, drew on much deeper stuff than plain, boring 'modern christianity'. They weren't typical 'christians', they dabbled a lot in the esoteric & mystical edges of christianity. The mythology and symbolism in Narnia and Lord of The Rings is highly Gnostic in character. Christ (Aslan), crucifixion, resurrection, the demiurge (Jadis), the battle between light/right/good & dark/error/evil, quest & voyage for lost 'treasure', evil entering creation - these are all classic gnostic themes - which is of course where 'Christianity' got them in the first place 
Posted 1 year ago # -
I completely missed the xtian themes when I first read them as a kid too.
Looking back now, I can see the similarities with Aslan getting sacrificed, or Gandalf falling into the pit with the balrog, but it's just one fantasy story using elements from another.Posted 1 year ago # -
MTQ - exactly! Christianity doesn't own the concept of sacrifice or any other theme and they nicked them from earlier myths/religions anyway. So your point actually highlights the fallacy in the orginal argument.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Aslan on the stone table, Jesus on the cross, Odin on the World Tree.
It's all variations on a theme.Posted 1 year ago # -
I just watched Prince Caspian on telly, and the Christian message in that is pretty flippin strong, even more so than TLTWATW. The scene when they have to cross the river clearly says that if you trust in Aslan aka God then you will be looked after and everything will be okay.
If that's not proselytising then I don't know what is!
Posted 1 year ago # -
BluePalomino, that's all beside the point really. The fact that christianity took its core myths from older cults doesn't change the fact that Lewis was a devout christian and his books were largely inspired by that. It's not a matter for interpretation because he was so open and clear about it himself.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Themes of courage, empathy, unity and self-sacrifice seem quite subversive in our "modern" society
Posted 1 year ago # -
Christian or not, Who cares? It has a positive message.
Posted 1 year ago #
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