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1. rocketman - Member

   Morning all. rocket jr is leaving school next year and there are a number of options.

   The easy choice is sixth form - same school, same teachers but still 'school'. My preference is vocational courses at the local college but this seems to be viewed as a dead end and not on the fast track to university. There are also apprenticeships.

   Luckily rocket jr is fairly bright but I feel as though the school is brainwashing us into thinking the sixth form/uni option is the only option.

   Your opinions and experiences would be most welcome. Cheers

   Posted 5 months ago #
2. Munqe-chick - Member

   I guess at lot depends on what he is good at and what he wants to do. There is nothing worse than being pushed/encouraged by a parent/s to do something that you don't want to do. Does he want to go to Uni? Is it feasible he'll get in? If that's what he wants and it's an achieveable goal, why would you not encourage him to stay on at school?

   Posted 5 months ago #
3. Garry_Lager - Member

   You probably need to weigh it up around the university question. Can you see the wee man enjoying / doing well at uni? He doesn't have to be really clear about a course or anything, because who is at that age? But if there is any chance of him thriving at uni I'd definitely steer him that way - it's an amazing opportunity for obvious reasons, but only if he wants / is capable of grasping it.

   There is no fast-track to university as such, there's just a track and a vocational course at the local tech would certainly be off to one side of that. That's probably where you want to be, though, if you're not going to get much out of a degree course.

   Posted 5 months ago #
4. IHN - Member

   the school is brainwashing us into thinking the sixth form/uni option is the only option.

   I to an extent was a victom of this. I did GCSE's then A-levels then went to straight to uni on the standard conveyor-belt. On landing at uni I realised that I didn't really want to be there, so I only lasted six weeks. Came home, got a job for a few years, then went back to uni at age 22 because at that point I knew it was what I wanted to do.

   Thing is, I already had the A-levels so that made it easier. Whatever Rocket Jr wants to do (and have you asked him/her?), the key is to not do anything that will make things trickier in the future. If they do think they'll want to go to uni at some point, getting the A-levels in the bag now might be sensible. They can then choose what to do with them.

   Posted 5 months ago #
5. rocketman - Member

   I wouldn't make him do anything he doesn't want to but as a responsible parent I'd like to give him the best advice and he is not old enough to make the right choice on his own.

   At the moment he wants to do the sixth form/uni option because everyone else is doing it. I appreciate the value of academic qualifications but I think exposure to the 'real world' is important.

   I don't want him to finish uni with a qualification and nothing else.

   Posted 5 months ago #
6. b r - Member

   My elder two both took the 6th form route initially; with the oldest now joining the Army half way through his 2nd year (he 'lost' the 1st year due to an accident) and the younger starting as an apprentice after Xmas for a family friend half way through his 1st year.

   tbh For both of them I think its a better option - but for both it is their decision.

   I suppose I'm a bit biased in that I didn't go to Uni, but do feel that for most kids that Uni is not the answer - especially now with the costs' they will be lumbered with.

   Posted 5 months ago #
7. meehaja - Member

   I did 6th form bcause I couldn't think of anything else, then dropped out of uni after 18 months as I had no interest in the topic (Computing).

   If I cold do it all again I'd join the navy. Interesting training in things you don't know you like, plenty of travel, seems a pretty good set up for a job on civvy street (turned my dead end mate into a really good teacher/engineer/salesman) and low chance of getting shot in a hot country.

   Its hard, as there is so much pressure when you're 16 to make choices that affect the rest of your life, a couple of a-levels did help me get where I am now (only because it was an entry requirement, rather than what I studied) and gave me th space to grow up whilst still in the ssafety net of school (having a job/girlfriend/leaving home etc)

   Posted 5 months ago #
8. rocketman - Member

   Thanks for your replies fellas, keep 'em coming

   Posted 5 months ago #
9. TooTall - Member

   rocketman - do you have a degree?

   Posted 5 months ago #
10. IHN - Member

    I appreciate the value of academic qualifications but I think exposure to the 'real world' is important.

    I don't want him to finish uni with a qualification and nothing else.

    He's got plenty of time to learn about the 'real world', and indeed uni can be very valuable in that respect.

    If he's got the ability to do well at sixth form, why not let him? There's nothing to say that doing A-levels means you have to go to university and if he'll be doing them at a time when he wants to be doing them and in an environment where he's comfortable, surely that's all for the good?

    Plus, lots of uni courses now have business placements, work experience, sandwich years etc, so providing the 'real-worl' experience that you sensibly want for him.

    On that note, does he have a part-time job? One of the best ways to start to understand the ways of the world IMO

    Posted 5 months ago #
11. bazzer - Member

    I think exposure to the 'real world' is important.

    He has plenty of time for that. In fact Uni can be the first stage of being independent on the journey to the real world.

    Posted 5 months ago #
12. lunge - Member

    I would suggest he gets some A-Levels first as it is much harder to go back and do them later.

    Once he has those he can decide to go to uni or get to work.

    Posted 5 months ago #
13. alfabus - Member

    Does he like bikes?

    Contact the mountain bike club at a uni you like the look of and see if you can go and meet up with them. They might be able to give him the low down on what Uni is really like in a way that is very different from his Dad telling him.

    Uni is about a lot more than just the course; it is a learning experience in all aspects of life, and is a bloody good way to spend a bunch of years.

    Dave
    (5 years at Aberystwyth with 30% of my time spent climbing or biking, 30% of my time spent drinking or eating, 30% of my time spent sleeping and a very optimistic 10% of my time spent doing Software Engineering)

    Posted 5 months ago #
14. _tom_ - Member

    I didn't really know what I wanted to do so I just did 6th form and uni because that's what most people did. I didn't really enjoy 6th form and almost dropped out a few times but I still ended up geting a couple of A-Levels and got into uni.. found that the course I'd picked (media production) was really fun and was something I was good at, so I actually put the effort in and got a good grade. Now have a job which is pretty much all the best bits from uni but now I get paid for them, and none of it feels like work

    Not sure if I'd do uni if it was as expensive as it is now, though. A degree isn't needed for the job I'm doing but it helped give me a good grounding and experience in the subject.

    Posted 5 months ago #
15. rocketman - Member

    rocketman - do you have a degree?

    I have a B.Eng in Electronic Engineering but I did it part-time at poly (remember them?) while working full-time.

    Posted 5 months ago #
16. miaowing_kat - Member

    Hmm, I think it's a much tougher decision because I presume your son doesn't have A-levels yet? And these are what you require to get into the University (that you then pay lots of money for) Forgive my ignorance, but I live in Scotland..

    I also went through route of Standard Grades, Higher, Advanced Highers (not everyone does this in Scotland but it was the norm in my school, and I was doing A-level art, which I wanted to get into art college). I had never considered any other option, as it was just taken as a given that you get all your grades and then go onto university.

    I don't want to speak on someone else's behalf too much, but the boyfriend didn't enjoy school - he managed to get the grades he needed for University in S5, and then deferred his entry by a year. During this year he worked at a local garage, and I get the impression it was immensely useful for him. He learned valuable work skills, how to speak to people etc. (sounds silly but school to uni students don't have a lot of this experience)
    Given that he wasn't that interested in staying at school I would imagine it was a much better option for him and I personally think it shows in his attitude to work - (even though he wasn't perhaps naturally gifted in academia and traditional subjects, he applied his intelligence and did well at uni)

    Maybe it's because I'm at art college, but I do think there are a lot of students who don't really know why they're there and what they want to do. Obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but I don't think University is always the best environment to challenge the 'coasting' mind-set that a lot of us seem to have. I personally found my first university experience overwhelming and had to take a few years out to understand myself better - I believe I'm a much more focused individual for it.

    I don't want any of that to sound too negative though! Lots of people go straight to Uni and it works really well for them, but I think it's a really good idea to consider alternatives if there's anything your son feels he wants to explore.

    Posted 5 months ago #
17. TooTall - Member

    I just wanted to understand your point of view - always helps in this sort of emotive thing.

    I didn't go to uni. I'm very happy with who I am, where I am and where I'm going. I don't regret not going to uni, but looking back, it would have been a better thing for me - if you can understand that. This will offend a few people, but I believe a degree to be a lesser qualification than when 'we were kids'. By lesser, I mean that more people have them and the expectation is to have one. Your kid won't be in a bubble at uni and it is certainly down to the parents as to how they develop then as well. There are more than enough holidays to learn about life and there are more than enough clubs and societies to get some good life-developing experience.
    You did a degree the hard way. Let your bairn do it at the easiest time - if that is what they want to do.

    Posted 5 months ago #
18. radtothepowerofsik - Member

    I didn't really like the school environment so left at 16 and did a vocational course. Although I got good GCSEs, I didn't do too well at college - mainly through discovering booze and girls I think!

    I then spent two years working abroad before starting a HND and moving up from that to complete a degree. I now work in IT.

    I did a business and an IT course a college because I thought that's what I'd need to go out and make some money. At school I was good at maths and science.

    With the benefit of hindsight and the last 15 years in the 'real world' I really, really wish I had stayed at school and completed A levels in something I was good at, gone on to uni to do the same and got a job in something I could do. I constantly try to be good at my job now but I don't think I ever really manage it.

    Posted 5 months ago #
19. CaptJon - Member

    rocketman - Member
    I wouldn't make him do anything he doesn't want to but as a responsible parent I'd like to give him the best advice and he is not old enough to make the right choice on his own.

    At the moment he wants to do the sixth form/uni option because everyone else is doing it. I appreciate the value of academic qualifications but I think exposure to the 'real world' is important.

    What is the real world you refer to? There is no reason why a uni student won't be exposed to the pressures and experiences those not at uni live through. More than half the students i teach have jobs, struggle with money and have responsibilities beyond the lecture room. The ones living in their own care-free uni world are the ones who have parents that buy them everything. The former are generally the hardest working students and will be the most likely to get a job after they graduate.

    What about a-levels at a college? They generally have a different style of teaching with greater emphasis on the student's own learning. In some ways it is a good middle ground between school and university.

    Posted 5 months ago #
20. rocketman - Member

    I believe a degree to be a lesser qualification than when 'we were kids'

    totally agree. Back in the day the actual subject was somewhat irrelevant but it proved you could work hard and study for a reason, rather than just the sake of it.

    But things change. My biggest concern is that I feel as though school is putting him on a conveyor belt and if he doesn't do this now then he won't be able to do that later etc etc

    Posted 5 months ago #
21. jonba - Member

    I went down the A-level, university route. It worked for me an millions of others, so try not to let your own misgivings prejudice his opinions.

    It worked for me because I find academic subjects easy and interesting. I would challenge the idea that university is not the "real world". It is very much a part of the real world and your education goes well beyond your course.

    After finding out what he wants to do I'd decide based on what his A level choices might be. If they are for proper subjects (English, Maths, a science, Geography, history etc.) then go for it. If they are media studies, david beckham and surfing then maybe he should not be pursuing education through academia.

    Most important thing I can say is that he needs to enjoy it. From GCSE to graduating I spent 6 more years in Education. Most people who dropped out of Uni didn't do so because they weren't up to it, it's just that they weren't interested as they chose the wrong course etc.

    Finally, does doing A-levels remove any options? He could go back to a vocational course after or he could go on to university, might open many more doors than it closes.

    Posted 5 months ago #
22. CaptJon - Member

    This will offend a few people, but I believe a degree to be a lesser qualification than when 'we were kids'

    A gross generalisation.

    Posted 5 months ago #
23. BlindMelon - Member

    Rocketman I did the A level/uni route mainly because my mates were doing it. I didn't like the course (Mech Engineering), spent a lot of money on drink and left after a year. I eventually got myself sorted out and decided I wanted to work in construction. While working full time I took a correspondance degree in Qunatity Surveying. It meant that I could earn a decent wage while studying and no debt was incurred. Best thing I have ever done.

    Posted 5 months ago #
24. rocketman - Member

    There is no reason why a uni student won't be exposed to the pressures and experiences those not at uni live through

    Would you care to elaborate on this? My impression of full-time uni life is that is an academic cocoon (no offence intended)

    Posted 5 months ago #
25. CaptJon - Member

    For starters most students live away from home, and after the first year are in a shared house. They have to deal with the same bills and chores as you and me. They'll move house three times, negotiate with landlords, and learn how to get on with people they share with. Loads of students have jobs because student loans often don't stretch beyond paying rent - this teaches them the value of work and time management. For people who have just left home doing all that while studying for a degree is a steep learning curve, and one they wouldn't get living at home and working in the 'real world'.

    Some parents only realise what they are letting their kids in for on the day they drop them off at halls on the first day. I'm constantly amazed at how much students mature in three years. It is a fantastic thing to see and the vast majority leave uni prepared for life.

    Posted 5 months ago #
26. rocketman - Member

    Hmm interesting...thanks for that

    Posted 5 months ago #
27. thomthumb - Member

    What about a-levels at a college? They generally have a different style of teaching with greater emphasis on the student's own learning. In some ways it is a good middle ground between school and university.

    this is very true. in the first few weeks at uni it was quite obvious who had done a-levels in a school uniform.

    i totally agree with the conveyor belt thing. realised on my placement year at uni that there was a whole world of jobs that school had not told us about.

    Posted 5 months ago #
28. rocketman - Member

    What about a-levels at a college?

    Must admit that sounds like a plan

    Posted 5 months ago #
29. ScotlandTheScared - Member

    As someone who works at a university I would agree with the comments above that say uni is still part of the 'real world'. Its a different type of education from school and college too, where the students are encouraged to think for themselves and look after themselves. For me, university was about growing up, finding my feet, figuring out what I wanted to do as a career, getting an education, making friends, doing sports etc etc. I.e. it is not just about getting a degree at all.

    However, uni only really works well for someone if they put the effort in. If they do that, they not only get a good degree to stand out from the crowd a bit, but they also build their transferable skills (e.g. communication, computer literacy, numeracy, english skills etc.) so that they can then go into a career that suits them. You might do a degree in a particular subject - that doesnt mean you'd be stuck in that subject forever more.

    I would not necessarily say that the uni environment is closeted, it is more of a 'community' and every student has different interactions within that community. Furthermore, subjects can be highly practical (e.g. engineering) or highly artistic and there really is something for everyone.

    Encourage your son to visit a university open day or two to see what its like. Be pro-active about this now - dont wait for a school to organise a visit. I did - and I took my parents. My parents were as interested as I was since they never went to uni themselves. Perhaps such a visit would open your own eyes too. If he is thinking of uni, and if it can be afforded, I would also encourage him to go somewhere that is quite far away from family and school friends - the temptation fo home comforts is too much for some and can be a significant distraction.

    In summary, university is great - it teaches you how to live your life in a way that schools and colleges cannot do. And go to open days (did I say that already?).

    Posted 5 months ago #
30. Teetosugars - Member

    I joined the Army.

    For me, at the time, it was the best thing to do.

    I've no regrets, and to be fair, spent the next 12 years loving it.

    If I hadn't broken my neck + back, I'd still be in.

    Posted 5 months ago #
31. bobbyg81 - Member

    Rocketman.

    It sounds like you have a problem with his school?. The whole, 'he needs real world experience' is a load of bollocks. Not once have you said what he wants. You've even said he's not old enough to make his own decisions? Even if he spends a year doing A levels, while he figures out exactly what he wants, then what is wrong with that? He's young.

    What sort of grades is he likely to get in his A levels? What does he want to do? These are whats important. You seem to have views which are a little out of date.

    Would you have him down a pit while doing nightclasses in Phrmaceutical Chemistry?

    Posted 5 months ago #
32. ScotlandTheScared - Member

    Also - looking at our web site (Durham), our next university open days are in the summer (i.e. just before your son would start applying) - these are designed so that potential students can see what university would be like. Then, there are post-application open days when students can come if they have been made an offer. You can often arrange individual departmental visits too by contacting the departments directly, but often the university open days are the best ones to come to as you get a feel for the whole system.

    Posted 5 months ago #
33. bobbyg81 - Member

    Degrees aren't a lesser qualification than they used to be. It's just that there is more oppurtunity for people to get one nowadays.

    Posted 5 months ago #
34. benjbish - Member

    It seems that doing A Levels straight after GCSEs is easier as you've been recently using the study skills needed. School-based A levels allow more structured study for students whereas colleges offer a more responsible approach. Whichever is best for the individual works best. It's easier to continue with education than to leave and get back in. He could do the vocational courses once A Levels have been finished.

    Posted 5 months ago #
35. scu98rkr - Member

    Luckily rocket jr is fairly bright

    This is going to sound extremely rude but what do you mean but by rocket jr. is fairly bright ?

    If he was fairly bright why would nt you want him to do A levels ?

    Do you actually mean "rocker jr. is completely average academically(neither good nor bad)" and you dont think he's going to stand out from the others once he has A-level/degree . So he'd better doing something else/having experience to make him stand out ?

    Posted 5 months ago #

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