Can you make a bike too light? « Singletrack Forum

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Can you make a bike too light?

47 posts & 28 voices | Started 6 months ago by organic355 | Latest reply from seosamh77

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organic355 - Member

I have this, which has been upgraded/weight weenied over the years to be around 9.8kg.

Things is I just dont feel as confident on it going downhill as i used to. Its bloody great uphill, but just seems to get bounced around a little too much on the bumpy/technical downhill stuff.

Not sure if this is because of the light weight of the bike of my lack of skill.

It also scares the crap out of me over jumps and it likes to go into orbit, creating some white knuckle landings.

As I have said before I am thinking of shifting all the bits over to something like a santa cruz superlight (which will be heavier), or something similar (any other recommendations for these bits?).

So has anyone had this experience of making their bike too light and it not feeling as 'solid' underneath you?

Posted 6 months ago #
RealMan - Member

I think yes, light bikes feel pretty twitchy over rough ground sometimes compared to heavier things, which just feel more planted. It's all relative though I reckon.

Posted 6 months ago #
DezB - Member

I personally do not like extremely light hardtails for normal riding (ok for XC racing, probably). As you say, they're too flighty.
I'm sure someone with the skillz could get used to it and keep it under control, but it's not for me.

Posted 6 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

only real issue I've ever had was on my c456 runnign singlespeed at about 22lb the back end tended to bounce up in the air a bit more than I was used to.

biggest issue for me on downhills is geometry (regardless of FS/HT), not bike weight.

Posted 6 months ago #
Jerome - Member

Remembering having this thought with road bikes.
Moving from my heavy steel bike to a super light carbon thing, which was very hard to control in strong winds.

Posted 6 months ago #
mrlebowski - Member

My Blur Xc can get a bit lively with a SID on the front but if I swap it to a the Reba if its a very different beast. Both forks are 100mm (well were the Reba is now 120mm for racing some rockier stuff next year..).

Posted 6 months ago #
organic355 - Member

My mind is becoming more convinced to move away from a carbon hardtail and get a short travel full suss.

The superlight seems a good match to the kit I have already got, any other suggestions?

Posted 6 months ago #
Lionheart - Member

I have twice made up pretty light bikes a x3 x9 that was under twenty pounds, felt like cheating going uphills but not much fun else where. And an SS a bit lighter still ran easily on 32:16 - but was all very flighty, my current SS comes in at 25lbs plus and is a hoot to ride but I need to run 32:17.

I think its a bit of every thing, light forks twist more, light wheels might speed up faster (good on the smooth) but loose momentum faster on the bumps and lumps and flex more also don't spread the tyres. Same with the tyres. I also find bigger tyres 2.35s much more fun (and faster) than 1.95 etc that one will need to go lighter. Brakes smaller, over heat more, not as sensitive. Bars end up narrower and flimiser, stems and posts the same - the whole lot adds up- so great for when one is going slow-ish uphill but not so good when fast and coming down.

My light weight Ti Bike (27 gears) now built back up to 23-ish lbs (wider bars, stiffer wheels, bigger tyres) is much more useable than it was but still predominately stays on the wall (as art) as the 25lb Steel SS, hoot to ride, gets taken out.

Do agree with above angles make a big difference and usually light means sharper angles.

plus: I think the XTC above will fairly stiff at the back and if light will be pushed around more

and second all said below!

Posted 6 months ago #
flange - Member

Anthem is the default choice. Those Titus on the Planet X site look pretty good and nice and light.

This is just over 19lbs. It's quite skittish, especially with the rigid fork but for its intended purpose ,which is racing, its spot on.

I think a bigger consideration for you is geometry. If you like riding the downs quickly or jumping, a slacker head angle might be a better bet. Unless you're breaking kit frequently then I'd stick with the lightest you can, especially wheels.

Think about the type of riding you want to do and base your next purchase around that. Whilst a full susser might take the sting out of heavy landings, a steep HA and narrow bars will still make it a nervous experience. A cheaper way to test this would be to stick a longer fork, wider bars and bigger tyres on your XTC. This will slacken the head angle and make it more trail friendly. A shorter stem would also help, pushing your weight further back.

To this end maybe consider an St4 or something of a similar ilk. I personally don't find race bikes much fun on an all day ride but its what you're used to at the end of the day

Posted 6 months ago #
Superficial - Member

Too light? No such thing.

Too compromised - sure. Too flexy, angles too steep, lack of grip, narrow bars, rubbish brakes, it all adds up to a terrifying experience. Basically what Lionheart says.

Posted 6 months ago #
njee20 - Member

its what you're used to at the end of the day

+1

My FS with race wheels (and Fox forks, discs etc) is knocking around 9kg depending on tyres, I love it! I use some heavier wheels for 'normal' riding, and don't like the way the bike rides with them, even downhill I prefer the lighter wheels, which surprised me frankly.

It is definitely what you're used to though, back in the day I had a v-braked carbon hardtail with 28mm SID WCs that was about 10.5kg, and that was horrible in comparison! The weight itself isn't that significant I don't think, more how it's achieved and the comprimises that are made.

Posted 6 months ago #
thisisnotaspoon - Member

Can a bike be too light - no

Can you get too obsessed with a bike being light - yes

My pitch has been on a diet down to 33lb, feels suprisingly light.

Posted 6 months ago #
ooOOoo - Member

Imagine a bike that weighed 1 gram.

How would that ride?

Posted 6 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

What's with all those heavy bikes on a thread about lightness?

This is 6lbs. Yes, lbs, not kilos....

Posted 6 months ago #
njee20 - Member

Road bike though innit, Heinz Wittman's 11lb Scale is more impressive.

Posted 6 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

And this is apparently the lightest production bike, at 11.4lbs:

Posted 6 months ago #
flange - Member

There is a weight limit on that bike though and its about £20k to buy I think Elf....

Just sayin...

Posted 6 months ago #
Jolly Green Giant - Member

I have an XTC which is around 11kg.I`d concur with the view that its as much the geometry as the weight.

Mine`s great for the purpose for which it is designed,eg fast xc but is scary on more technical stuff.

As mentioned above for more control,try a longer fork,bigger tyres by all means but theres only so far that you can go.

Having said that taking out an internal spacer in my Reba forks to go from 85 to 100mm travel did make a noticeable difference for descending confidence.

Posted 6 months ago #
flange - Member

Anyone got a picture of that 13lb Niner Air carbon?

Posted 6 months ago #
DezB - Member

Imagine a bike that weighed 1 gram.

How would that ride?

Slightly better than one that weighed 0.5g

Posted 6 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

You're right Njee; it's even got front supsension ffs...

Posted 6 months ago #
trickydisco - Member

Anyone got a picture of that 13lb Niner Air carbon?

'm loving my bike. It's my first 29er but I've been riding rigid SS since Christmas 1998. The difference in the ride is almost unfathomable. Going from a rigid 26er SS to a rigid 29er SS is like getting a couple inches of travel out of the trade. It's amazing!! I've got the weight down to 13lb.15oz. but I've got some major plans. I think I can get it under 13lbs and still beat the crap out of it. When I ordered the frame and fork in January I weighed 205lbs and I knew that the wheelset had a weight limit of 170lbs so I lost the weight to ride my bike. Now with gear on I hit the scales at 174lbs..."

Specifications:
Frame: Air 9 Carbon Frame, Size Medium with standard FSA headset
Fork: Niner Carbon Fork
Bar: Ritchey Super Logic riser cut to 25.5"
Stem: FSA 0S-99 90mm, polished just for looks
Post: KCNC Ti-Pro scandium cut to length
Saddle: Edge carbon w/ carbon rails
Clamp: Mortop w/ ti bolt
Grips: ESI racers edge cut to 4"
Crank & BB: Sweetwing circa 1995, Hollow chromoly 48 splines and one big ass ti bolt.
Ring: Salsa 22t
Bolts: Orgins alloy
Cog: 12t Crupi alloy
Chain: KMC x10sl
Pedals: Crank Bros. Egg Beater 4ti
Brakes: Formula R1 w/ carbon lever blades and alloy bolts
Rotors: Gatorbrake w/ 3 ti bolts per rotor
Wheels: Stans 29er race wheels, w/ Rox Ultralite rim strips
Tubes: Maxxis Flyweight 26er
Tires: Schwalbe 29er Furious Freds
Skewers: Control Tech Scandium Race
Lots and lots of titanium and alloy bolts!

Posted 6 months ago #
mogrim - Member

There is a weight limit on that bike though and its about £20k to buy I think Elf....

Ugly, too - for that much cash I'd not want that minging chain, and I'd expect better graphics.

Posted 6 months ago #
Elfinsafety - Member

There is a weight limit on that bike though

Not an issue for me. I weigh less than a tiny little shrew-mouse.

The £20k might be though.

My SS is about 27lbs.

My geared Cannondale HT is around 23lbs I think, maybe 24. Mainly cos of lighter wheels.

The Cannondale is a better bike for longer/climbier rides, but there's not a lot else in it really. Both are fun to ride. And I'm still faster uphill on my SS than others.

Posted 6 months ago #
richmtb - Member

So long as you aren't sacrificing strength lighweight is always better.

As technology moves on stronger and stiffer components become available at lower weights and if you are prepared to throw lots of money at the problem then you can get really light and stiff bikes these days. But there always comes a point where you are sacrificing ridability for weight.

Posted 6 months ago #
njee20 - Member

You're right Njee; it's even got front supsension ffs...

Sort of, he's taken most of the bits out

That Niner's pretty awesome, although Furious Freds and Maxxis Flyweight tubes make it pretty useless anywhere other than a field!

Posted 6 months ago #
PaulD - Member

Anyone else tried running flyweight 26" tubes in a 29" wheel?

PaulD

Posted 6 months ago #
Northwind - Member

My C456 isn't outright light, but is in terms of the job it does- and it does change how it rides, it's easier to move under you but it gets kicked around more easily (2 sides of the same coin tbh). It needs more attention to keep it on line in rocks and roots, and it kicks harder off edges and lips than a heavier bike does. Basically, you get more reaction for a certain input, whether it's rider input or trail surface.

Nothing very surprising really, and nothing that can't be dealt with but there's definately times when a 30lb bike would be easier to ride through a section.

Posted 6 months ago #
40mpg - Member

My whippet weighs 18lbs, with decent tyres (2.3's)and wide bars it feels fine. Perhaps change these for minimal weight gain as it can make the bike feel totally different?

Posted 6 months ago #
richmtb - Member

That Niner is a perfect example of sacrificing rideability for weight though. As cool as it undoubtedly is most of us want more than one gear and some sort of suspension

Posted 6 months ago #
B.A.Nana - Member

I managed to get mine below 20lb, but it started to feel like I was being pinged off stuff too easily, just started to enjoy it a little bit less for general XC riding in the Yorkshire Dales. For me about 23lbs seems a nice balance for climbing and descending. This is all with carbon rigids.

Posted 6 months ago #
flange - Member

richMTB - I disagree. Depends on the type of riding you do. For me on my 29er I mainly rode with the forks locked out. There are also a fair few <15lb niners about with gears and suspenders, I think if you went to town on it you could be close to the 13lb mark and still keep it rideable for pretty much most things.

Posted 6 months ago #
njee20 - Member

I agree with Rich, he did say most of us, and you are sacrificing rideability for weight with a build like that. Doesn't mean it won't still suit your riding conditions/style, but you are making sacrifices.

I'd never go rigid, and SS would only really appeal for the simplicity side of it as a winter bike. I'd rather ride a heavier, geared and bouncy bike.

Posted 6 months ago #
wwaswas - Member

most of us want more than one gear and some sort of suspension

funnily enough I currently have a rigid forked bike with gears and a boingy forked one running single speed so I'd say it shoudl be 'or', not 'and'

Posted 6 months ago #
ahwiles - Member

i don't like light wheels, obviously i don't like heavy wheels either.

light wheels = nervous handling

heavy wheels = hard work

somewhere in the middle is nice...

Posted 6 months ago #