i used to think you should be able to kill something if you want to eat meat.
however whats wrong with this: i dont fancy killing this would you do it for me? yeah give it here.

how society works i think.

TJ – just finished an edit, see above.

ZE – I'm aware of that argument but it doesnt fly with me. How does loving an animal marry up to shooting it in the head? "oooh thats a lovely deer, I respect it deeply – BANG – woo that was fun!". I'm fully aware that every piece of meat I eat came from a dead animal that was happily going about its life a few weeks before it hit my plate, I'm not that naive. I buy eggs that are open-air eggs (not free range/shed based ones) from my local farm. I buy more expensive chickens that I hope (you can't be sure) have been raised in nice places with space. I'm aware that my need for food requires death. I just don't take enjoyment from it.

Letting someone else do it in a "kind" way does not mean I don't accept responsibility for it, or mean that somehow I am sheilding myself from reality. It just means that I dont *enjoy* killing things.

Perhaps the question should be, if you don't enjoy killing fish, should it really be acceptable, morally, for you to eat the fish – why is it morally acceptable to get someone to drag fish out the sea in a net and kill them for money, just so that you can take enjoyment from eating it (its not a necessity, humans can thrive on a vegetarian diet) If anything, the moral vaccum is on the side of those who cannot do it themselves, but enjoy reaping the benefits!

Why does the act of killing the fish yourself make it more acceptable to eat it? But that distracting question aside (as it isnt the point in question) – why do you enjoy killing deer? When it boils down to it you just enjoy ending somethings life. You didn't wake up one morning and think you needed to change the way you sourced food.

Anyway, I have work to do. I sit somewhere on the fence (despite playing devils advocate here) but I'm not convinced its good to enjoy killing things, regardless of whether its a right or wrong way to get food. Vegetarianism isn't ideal (I've yet to meet a veggie who wasn't ill and pale looking!) and I believe we are animals designed to eat animals as well as veg, but I struggle solely with the enjoyment factor.

That's right. I've killed women and children. I've killed just about everything that walks or crawls at one time or another

Bill Munny

> I absolutely hate killing things needlessly.
> I can comfortably catch, kill, gut and eat a fish.

Something doesn't quite stack up there.

Only because you skipped the bit where I said I eat meat.
I don't consider killing something to eat it as "needless".

Likewise I don't have a problem Zulu-Eleven killing those deer if they were eaten afterwards (or used in some other useful way). But if it was purely for the "fun" of watching them die then I personally find that a little distasteful. And a bit odd.

CK – no, you don't have a "need" for meat, its a preference.

90% of us would say its enjoyable to eat a nice piece of steak/venison/fish – thats directly gaining personal enjoyment from the (needless?) death of an animal.

to say that is OK, whereas gaining enjoyment from completing the cycle is fooling yourself.

whereas gaining enjoyment from completing the cycle is fooling yourself.

I'm fooling noone, to assume I was would suggest I was not aware of some part of the process.

Read above for more detail.

My problem is not the eating/killing, it's enjoying doing it. I've yet to meet a hunting type who didn't enjoy seeing a bit of blood spatter and ripping guts out.

if you wanted to join a hunt when i was a youth you had to be blooded.
have the stuff rubbed on your face.ffs.
luckily i never wanted to join one.

didn't enjoy seeing a bit of blood spatter and ripping guts out.

And what, EXACTLY is morally wrong with that?

its part of the process of making an animal into a nice tasty piece of meat – if its part of the process, then there is no moral difference between enjoying that, and enjoying the fruits of that labour – you cannot have one without the other

Not this week,too windy.

No one ever admits to kill things for the enjoyment of it – the thrill of the hunt, with no intention of eating what they have killed.

Well, i will.

I shoot some things to eat, and other things like Crows and Magpies, simply because I can.

Yes theyre designated as a pest as they take sheep eyes, young birds etc, but theyre not that big of a problem. I do it simply because I enjoy it.

Now I do draw a line, you can shoot Rooks and Jays, but I choose not to, Rooks spend most of their lives eating Leather Jackets and Grubs, and Jays acorns etc. I often have the opportunity, but couldnt tell you the last time I shot either.

Christ, the shit my dog (or should I say "I") got on here when I posted that she had nibbled a deer's cheek.
Someone put Zulu-Eleven on a lead!

😯

I couldn't kill the mouse that our cat brought in last night, just gave it back to the cat & kicked her out with it! 🙁
I've thought many times about getting rid of the cat coz she's such an effective hunter & it stresses me out that she's killing off the rodent population from the nearby fields. She nearly got a grouse the other week FFS!

A grouse!

Where do you live?

wysiwyg I really worry that anyone can enjoy death and killing. It is just not normal behaviour.

Z-11 – A bit better than wysiwyg but to kill for sport is something most people are uncomfortabke with. It is not because we dont live in the countryside it is because we are not murdering b@stards.

I agree most people are hypocritical on the issue and are happy to let others kill their food for them despite the fact they could never kill it themselves. However neither of you are discussing the food chain you are both enjoying killing.

Imagine I did this to free range MTB'ers who have had good lifes…you know better than people in Africa … and I just shot them as they enjoyed a day in the trail because well I can. I will call it sport as I may miss. You would rightly think I am a nutter. You only have to change the prey to get yourself.

If you can't see exactly what's morally wrong with killing animals for fun then it simply means your morals are different from other peoples, and I would say you're morally wrong, you have the right to your opinion. I think it's sick to derive pleasure from the act of killing things, you don't, thats fine, but dont get upset when I say it, and don't accuse me of being naive or fooling myself – im fully aware of the food chain and natural ways of life. Ive less of a problem with people like nomadic cultures who have no source of food other than that that they kill, enjoying and celebrating the kill as it means they can eat – there's a difference, they have no choice.

wysiwyg – humans are pests, wrecking the planet and making the lives of other animals a mess AND they know they're doing it. Get the sniper rifle out.