right, despite being car free for ~3 years i’m at a point where due to my job and location i’ll likely be needing some form of motorised transport.

i was thinking about a 50cc moped7scooter thingy, but i’m not sure how much fun it would be in the depths of a bavarian winter.

there are quite a few Smart cars around and people say that they are very cheap to run. a friend had one would use it for trips away. he used to get his (big) bike into one and would sleep in it with the seat down.

it also costs next to nothing here in germany to tax due to its pivvy engine.

but then i saw the renault Twingo. i know it looks crap, but it’s probably cheap to run and that is my main concern. plus it’ll sit four (don’t care if it’s that uncomfy in the back as i’ll more than likely be driving) or two + two bikes.

i’m not doing big mileage very often and when i do it’d be a two hour journey (max) to go ride somewhere exotic.

what are your thoughts on these little run arounds….?

fanks.

smart cars are fairly expensive to service.

kia piccanto is small and cheap.

for bravaria would a 4×4 like a panda or jimney not be good? although less cheap.

everyone who says motorbikes/mopeds are cold in winter… MTFU! I cycled 12 miles to work and back everyday last winter, if its cold, ride harder! wear a hat and a scarf, thermal base layer, i tend to wear a long sleeve t shirt over that and my normal wind/rain proof coat. 3/4 tights and those neoprene shoe covers. i did have to wear 2 pairs of gloves when it was -14 as i got frostbite but lesson learned there!

I’m pretty sure you can get special coats, gloves and trousers for motorbiking?

Say NAY to the nay sayers! Get a small, fun motorbike and take it easy on icy days. Cars are boring and encourage laziness! I just drove to the gym 2 miles away! see? How lazy is that? perfect reason to set fire to the wifes car and spend the money on new socks!

I got a Honda Jizz.

The seats lay flat and it’s great 🙂

if its cold, ride harder!

and you do this on motorbike how exactly ?

A motorbike is way colder than a bike what with not moving and having a higher wind chill factor
You would be cold in what you describe in autumn never mind winter on a motorbike

The Twingo used to be popular with the Spanish youth as the front seats would recline and there would be no intereference from the handbrake, it might be an important factor.

My Dad gave me his Toyota Yaris and it is a cracking little car. Helps it is the D4D engine – runs on fumes it seems! He has had it since a few months old (52 plate/60k) and it has had NOTHING other than tyres and service on it, until I replaced the windscreen wiper rubbers this spring. It even runs well round here in the snow with chains on – was brilliant all winter on a 8 mile singletrack road commute in Highlands. Last two days I have taken it across Rannoch Moor to Glencoe, and while it is not the most powerful thing around, it happily sat at 60+ even up hills. Service is £140 each year. Tax £35.

Small cars are the new big car doncha know. 😛
I’ve got a panda multijet (diesel) it’s giving 62-3 average, insurance group 2, £30 road tax and it’ll sit at 80 all day, can fit my bike in no problems and it’s actually fun to drive
It’s like going back in time 20 years in motoring costs, top little car! 😀 😛

stay away from cheap french stuff all fancy electrics that go wrong but up till then there great

We had a smart and swapped it out for a panda. 10 x as practical and as cheap to run (if small/diesel engined). Much better to drive too.

Mate has the diesel panda, cheap to run but looks gash, especially as it’s a metallic pale blue – his missus hates it lol

These are pretty amazing cars, and I used to quite often carry my bike on the back.

The new twingo is a nice little car, looks alot like the old Citroen C2 model, same sort of shape, and when lined up at the lights same dimensions. I run a C2, bikes on the roof and i know its now discontinued but its a great little car.

Smart cars are expensive to service as said above.

Smart cars tyres are expensive cos they are a metric size which means they are hard to get over here but that may not be an issue in Germany…?

500 is excellent fun…

… havent tried to get the mtb in yet though!!!

Smarts are brilliant.
Cool, cheap to run, nippy, comfortable (except on rutted roads where they bounce a bit but I guess in Germany where all the roads are like billiard tables it’ll be smooth as)
I’ve ran 7 in a business situation for both inner city and rural locations, they’ve been reliable and servicing hasn’t been that bad at all, tyres.. you can get them for £40 each easy to park, get stuff in them like bikes and fridges, loads of aftermarket accessories for them too if you are into that kinda thing, bike racks available too…
The lefties and 500cc engined ones are uber cool now, go for the orange seats if you can. You can get them (and the 700cc version) tuned to stage one performance where (and I’ve proven it) they’ll give more mpg and speed up gear changes and accelerate much quicker all for £100, bargain.
I’ve kept one for home where we’ve loads where I live and all wave at each other, ok that might put you off, but it’s fun. I’ve taken mine to Bordeaux which was a bit long doing 70odd all the way but still it was comfortable and quiet, only did it cos’ I wanted to see what it was like, then coming back up off the N routes was perfect, they handle well if you treat it with respect and don’t pretend it’s something it not..
I’m looking to change them soon and will definitely change for the newer version 1000cc engined ones, I might even get a Brabus version for the family. I’ve tried the new one and it’s better screwed together and much quieter, so seems like a plan to me.
I love em me.

Mate of mine has a Brabus smart, tuned to 150bhp, it’s ridicularse!
In a nice way, 8) £15k though…..

Yeah, I went to one of those Smart meets Merc run last year (next ones the 10th Sept IIRC) and there was a Suzuki Motorbike engined one there with 1000cc, totally mad, pulled wheelies and all sorts of spins.. bonkers..
I occasionally go on these invites Smart send through, last one I went on was at the South Bank with all the new models and some designer stuff, pretty cool it was.. I like this free thinking stuff me.. though the BoomBox sound system one (in Orange) was a bit LOUD..

I wouldn’t touch a smart for2 thats had much more than a Stg1 remap done to it. That’s speaking from experience, my wife’s was at 110bhp which was not good for the engine they really aren’t up to it even though there are people out there that’ll do it. just had a complete engine rebuild at <40k 😯 normally the engines are good for 60-70k before a rebuild (according to a smart specialist mechanic)

I do like it though, we’ll keep it now after sinking ££££’s into it perfect for the 2 of us and the bike rack is great. great little cars just watch out for the lemons don’t touch a 600 (turbo/manifold problems), 700’s are ok if driven sensibly and serviced properly. the new 1000s are a lot more robust engines.

The Brabus is really sweet but a bit pricey
If you want cheap and silly fast, a panda multijet with 15inch alloys and a remap = grippy little torque monster! 8)

My love of small cars is well documented. Don’t go near a Smart- they are small but bloody impracticable and unless you get the wider tyres on the front they are horrible to drive outside of town.. whereas a Jazz is far better.

As mentioned above- get a Honda Jazz. Reliable, fit a bike in and people/versatile.

I currently drive a Ford Puma 8)

No I wouldnt get a scooter. For circa 3 months of the year you’d be suicidal and for almost half a year you’d question why you were riding a small buzz box in driving rain on diesel on roundabouts. Everyone would overtake you and you’d have to rag it to stay alive (putting you firmly in the clutches of spilt diesel, frost etc on the roads..) Scooters are ACE in nicer climates 🙂

Wife has got a chev matiz, 800cc petrol engine, fits 4 people comfortably, 5 is a squeeze (would be quite sluggish with 5 adults, ok with 2 adults + 2 kids). Fine round town and short motorways journeys, I don’t fancy a long motorway run in it. Very light controls, piece of piss to park anywhere. Fits a bike with front wheel off, in the back with seats down, could probably squeeze 2 in and a bit of kit but not tried.

We got it with 6k on the clock, been cheap to run so far, needed rear wheel bearings last MOT, think that’s it.

We have a Smart car at work. It’s absolutely dreadful – terrible ride quality, and the laziest gear change (semi-auto) I’ve ever encountered. They’re less practical than other small cars, and are no more economical. If there’s a point to them, I’ve missed it.

Citrtoen C1. Cheap to buy, cheap and simple to maintain (12000mile service interval I think) no electrics to go wrong, 2 bikes in no probs with seats down. 660 miles last weekend in it, and it cost me 70 quid in fuel. Will do 80mph on motorway all day as well. Best “sensible” car I’ve ever had. Dont go Aygo – exactly same as C1, but with a Toyota badge. My C1 even has toyota stamped all over the engine parts.

107/C1/Aygo’s are great however abit crappy for bike use unless you are not very tall (seats fwd).

Old shape Yaris could get two bikes in EASY. Oh yes- the Smarts gearchange was hideous.

Jazz in dark grey.

Old yaris D4D.
Can’t go wrong IMHO. 120,000 miles on ours when we sold it and all I’d spent was tyres and a battery, plus regular oil and filter changes.

Big enough, cheap enough to run.

Panda for us takes the bikes easily , 50 mpg low VED low insurance

And fun to drive and park..

Another vote for Panda here although we have now sold it. I think the jazz is cheap in germany from what was said on another forum.

Twingo is a far more robust choice than the smart, simple to run and service, folding seats to make a bed and generally just a proper little euro hatch.

Yeah Smarts are really only for one thing I reckon – very crowded cities.

Winter driving- I once drove my old Aygo from Manchester to Southern Germany one NY’s eve.

I also handbrake-turned. Hirecar 107 (on summer eco tyres) around icy corners. Great cars.

I’d never drive a smart car outside a city centre. Mine (pure/54 reg) was ‘ok’ out of town but the pulse(?) I tesrdrove oversteered without any procovation on A roads.

Come to think of it I Would have another Aygo tomorrow if I was allowed 🙁

kia piccanto is small and cheap

for a reason. They really are crap. Marmalade wheels and elastic steering column. There are better options out there – come to think of it you’d struggle to find a worse cheap car (IMHO)

I can get my CX bike in my Smart diesel, the handling is atrocious, the ride is pretty poor and the gearchange is lazy but I can live with it due to the 67mpg average over the past 21,000 miles (much more on a long run) the big fat zero I paid for the excise disc a couple of days ago and the original tyres are still only half worn.

I hired a Picanto. Its a car that I wouldn’t want to drive anywhere near briskly, it gelt unsure and unstable.

What is the motivation for restricting yourself to super-minis?

Add about 12 inches to the length (ignoring the Smart) and you get Ford Fiesta size cars, much more bike friendly.

We have a Ford Fusion, cost a tad over £2k and is head and shoulders above the horrible Punto we had before it. Its like a mini fiesta, wide low boot but still short, and cheaper than the fiesta its based on.

We bought a Jazz a few months ago. Absolutely love it it. It’s like the Tardis, loads of room inside. We can fit a load of camping gear plus 2 bikes in the back. We’re getting about 50mpg and from all accounts they are extremely reliable.

We have a Ford Fusion,

Or the Mazda2

You can ride a motorbike in cold conditions, I used to regularly do a weekly quasi-commute from London to Manchester in all weathers, but it’s a faff. Because you’re generating very little warmth, you need a lot of clothing, something insulated and windproof to fill the gap between helmet and shoulders – you lose a lot of heat from your neck – and preferably a heated jacket and gloves or grips. And when it’s snowy and/or icy, all bets are off.

If you’re still open to the idea of two wheels, something like a 125cc trail bike would be what I’d look at rather than a gutless moped. It’d be fun and cheap to run and possibly amusing in fresh snow too.

I think Alpin might also be concerned about snow too.