jeebus, looks like it's been welded by a blind chimp!

£675!! Sweet baby Jesus.

Just watched that Dirt video, the trails look strangely familiar... Wonder how much it weighs?

If they grew beards, it could sell for more.

Eeeeeeeeeeeew! Cast iron trellis? That could only look right with a clematis twining through it and evil Victorian sewage coursing through its pipes.

64 degree head angle mind...

64 static mind

It's damn ugly, I particularly dislike the gussets, yuk.

Give me a BFe....or a Shan....or an Alpine....or a Surge.....or a Troof.....or a Slackline over that, any day 😐

'Snice that.

Ha ha, silly price.

I guess they're cashing in on the latest trend "Enduro" racing (although 99% of people don't race). What was the trend last year? "All Mountain" wasn't it?

I'm sure some mug will buy it (to match their £60 Mojo mud guard)....

Love it. Bit different and made here by folk who are making what they want to ride and having fun doing it... max awesomz!

They practice what they preach- saw one up at the Dudes enduro. I was unhappy about having to use an unfamiliar tyre that I'd never ridden on before, he'd just finished welding his frame together. Fab. And being ridden fast on trails that were making some folks on big full sussers very unhappy!

Love the way adding the word Enduro adds so much to the price.

It's not an Enduro bike. It hasn't got an engine. 😉

Everyone talking about the price seems to have missed two key words: It's made here, in the UK. How much does a Curtis or Enigma cost?

It's made here, in the UK. How much does a Curtis or Enigma cost?

curtis have been as cheap as chips at chain reaction, what's your point caller?

What would it cost if it said Orange on the side (but wasn't made in the UK?)

A red one would look lovely...if you like your bikes to look like the Forth Rail Bridge.

small uk bike firm -brilliant

but the designer needs to sack his guide dog and the welder might try something a little more advanced than MMA welding.

strong frames and gussets don't need to be fugly.

Those gussets don't look as if they're doing an awful lot of work, other than adding cost and somewhere to trap mud. Don't get me wrong, they probably do increase the structural integerity of the frame. But not much.

The ‘X’ head and chainstay gussets maximise strength and stiffness whilst adding minimal weight

Rubbish. They'd be better as a large plate, with a hole cutout, so there's a decent length of weld along the tubes. If they can't get that right, what else is wrong?

I quite like it, but I like stuff that looks like it was designed and built in a shed, over something designed on a computer and built in a Chinese jelly mold....

Ah, I think everyone knows the Xs are mostly to give it a distinctive look.

The downhill one looks like it would be good as a downhill hardtail, I like the rad looking gussets everywhere. It reminds me of some badly constructed frames from years ago.

That enduro one looks a bit pointless. To start with, the seat tube isnt long enough on the large frame.

And you'd be better off on a 100mm travel bike for the riding in that video.

Can't see those gussets doing much, they look way too weedy to me - and trap mud too. Also gravity enduro? With a 120mm fork?..?

Yeah, it's a nice vid but doesn't really show it off doing what it's supposed to be for, does it. Limited locations to shoot, I guess? They're from somewhere down south

curtis have been as cheap as chips at chain reaction, what's your point caller?

Not all Curtis' (Curti?) are created equal, the UK made ones are reassuringly expensive.

Besides, the Curtis DH was £700, so same ballpark. No stupid plates on that though.

Good luck to them, distinctive product, small UK firm making bikes. Hooray for our side. 😀

Winter/sloppy days DH bike. Nice, at least it's not got penny farthing wheels, or fat tyres....

Curtis at CRC were a batch they made in the uk that were sold at full price and them knocked out for nowt to clear them - they weren't £200 frames to start with.

Having bought one I'd say that the quality of build and ride exceed any other steel hard tail I've owned (and I've had a fair few).

If these guys can build something in the uk that people will buy and enjoy riding then more power to their elbows

I like it and the company but at twice the price of the Bfe and the Alpine i won't be getting one. On the other hand The DH one (Belter) is on my list.

Have you guys seen this BTR?
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/9121848/

They do look quite nice, geometry wise. Shame the execution is a little agricultural, hate the gussets, they have more than a hint of 90's planet x about them, now if it was fillet brazed in 853 with prettier or even no gussets, then I'd be creaming my knickers...
Oh and it is made in a shed.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.....

[img] [/img]

Take a closer look at the full suspension on their website, there are a few screw heads that have flats cut out of them, this gives me two thoughts, 1, they are using second hand screws on a custom £2000 frame, 2, something somewhere didn't fit so they had to mod it very crudely

Oh and the full suspension is the customer's design, not theirs. They only built it

I want to like the company but can't

wonder if there are any design calcs / CEN testing

I can see major stress risers in that design without looking at it for more than 30 seconds.

Don't need CEN for custom or race bikes

didnt say you did but would be interesting to see the results of cen testing on it .....

Oh and the full suspension is the customer's design, not theirs. They only built it

2.8kg for the large frame (inc maxle, mech hanger, integrated seat clamp, etc), so that's 6.2lbs in old money.

[i]looks like it's been welded by a blind chimp[/i]

Chimpist !. How would you feel if you were a visually impaired primate, trying to earn a living with an oxy acetylene torch !.

I've ridden the Belter (their first frame) and though ugly the ride was a joy. A true downhill hardtail. It was heavy but bloody good fun.

Not sure about this enduro thing though.

[i]Are you looking for the ultimate Gravity Enduro hardtail frame, or an all-day shredding machine? [/i]

I've absolutely no idea what this means so, as Duncan Bannatyne says, aaahm ooot.

Apparently this is a shredding machine:

[img] [/img]

That's patently not what they're selling, so I think it's a scam.

For me part of the appeal of bikes and the double triangle design is the simplicity, I'm not sure about all that bracing, hmmmm

Plus, that exact trail today is a clay/chalk glop fest and the bottom bracket bracing would be stuck solid in seconds.

Are you looking for the ultimate Gravity Enduro hardtail frame, or an all-day shredding machine?

I've absolutely no idea what this means so, as Duncan Bannatyne says, aaahm ooot.

Old people. They do say some funny things.

2.8kg for the large frame (inc maxle, mech hanger, integrated seat clamp, etc), so that's 6.2lbs in old money.

About the same as a Ragley Bagger 288 then...

I like where BTR are coming from that a hardtail frame like this doesn't need 160mm forks so they have gone for 120mm; their Belter DH frame is designed for 150mm forks.

UK built in a shed is a great talking point as are the gussets. I know very well that just because a bike has been CEN tested does not mean it won't break 😈

[i]Old people. They do say some funny things. [/i]

Kids these days. They have no respect 🙂

British;
[img] [/img]
French;
[img] [/img]
Can't help bit think we're lacking in the aesthetic department....
Also, the french bike is £559, the british bike £675....

"French" are you sure?

Well, fraiwanese.
Not that I care/it matters.

fraiwanese.

Loving the VIN plate.

Production Privee looks lovely... but BB92 and a bizzare headset standard is enough to put me off which is a shame; It could so easily have been perfect for me.

I am tempted by the Ranger... pick up phone and speak to man in shed who will weld your frame 😀

close. Andwanese

Old people. They do say some funny things.

Kids these days. They have no respect

Touché! 😆

IHN - Member

Apparently this is a shredding machine

Stack of time-expired Gnars just out of shot.

BTR all the way for me, i've been unfortunate enough to race against one half of the BTR gang this year.

That frame is a great piece of workmanship and also a legitimate downhill frame. He puts lots of people to shame on their 4k full suss bikes. Look out for him in the BDS this year.

To question the quality of that product is completely mad.

^^^totally agree. I also met the makers of these lovely frames and have seen the first 'belter' in the flesh. The craftsmanship is second to none and I saw no dodgy welds, all looked perfect.

Iirc both guys (Burf and Tam) have engineering backgrounds, on also does the cad/modelling side of things. Burf also used to race DH semi-pro with the Rsp team I think with the likes of Matt Farmer.

My only hurdle is the price, but just think of the man hours and materials to make one.

I'd love one personally. Makes my ExAlt look like a munter

Does make me laugh that people are slating BTR without looking into why them make frames as they do. As many people have said they are a 2 man company building bikes in a shed, and all power to them. How many people on here have the skills, experience and balls to turn a hobby into a job?

I saw their full-sus frame up at chicksands on sunday, and the welding on it is a very high standard. The frame was designed and manufactured by the guys at BTR, the customer put forward his ideas and they expanded on from there. What people see to forget about this frame is that its their first prototype frame. Its not going to be perfect, theres going to be some issues and their learn from that.

If you dont want to pay that much for a frame then im sure you can get a chinese frame that will suit your needs. How many frame manufacturers can honestly say that they design and manufacture their entire frame range within the uk?

Give the guys a break, and embrace the BRITISHNESS!!! 😀

ditto Stu 😆

"Burf also used to race DH semi-pro with the Rsp team I think with the likes of Matt Farmer"

From btrs site he didnt start racing till 99

Team raleigh/rsp disbanded in 2000 - his name wasnt mentioned in the final press release unless its elliott baxter as hes the only one i aint met that rode for them in the final years

But dont let the truth dispell a jolly good rumour.

Possibly was one of the low budgetdiamond back race team spots that came after rsp disbanded though

As cruzer said...try actually reading up a bit about why they're building the things they are, and what their intended use is... it's not mincing around the cake shop on a sunday...

They've been known on the Uk scene for a little while now, via other more DH orientated communities and have a good rep, and even if the looks aren't to you taste there's no doubting their approach and the effort that goes into their frames, all handbuilt in the UK remember, custom geometry option, any tweaks you want etc, try getting that on your mass produced far-east frame.

I'm due to take delivery of a frame from them in a couple of weeks, a new custom built front end mated to the rear end of my old Schwinn straight 6 so that I can keep my lawwill back end that I love so much but with a new re-designed front end with more modern geometry.

And if you need any more persuasion, I approached several other UK frame builders about the project (back in September), including Curtis, some were vaguely interested, some not so much, but it was a personal recommendation from Tom at Demon Frameworks that put me onto BTR, and they've been really helpful, totally willing to work with me on the design and come up with something unique that I'm really excited about!

Hats off to them for making a go of it and trying new things, how about we actually try and support UK builders trying to do stuff like this instead of sitting there picking holes in their gussets across the internet 😉

Some more info for those that are interested:

[url= http://dirt.mpora.com/news/homemade-bikes-paul-burford.html ]http://dirt.mpora.com/news/homemade-bikes-paul-burford.html[/url]

[url= http://www.btr-fabrications.com/index.php/about-us ]http://www.btr-fabrications.com/index.php/about-us[/url]

[url= http://bikemagic.com/gear/new-btr-ranger-enduro-hardtail-hand-built-in-britain.html#slide-1 ]http://bikemagic.com/gear/new-btr-ranger-enduro-hardtail-hand-built-in-britain.html#slide-1[/url]

[url= http://www.rootsandrain.com/rider729/paul-burford/results/ ]Burfs race history back to 2002[/url]

Ah so it was muddy Fox not RSP. I knew it was one of them sort of brands. He's bloody quick and got some good results there to back it up!

Cheers mate

I do like what they're doing! Hope to have a go on one before I do any more bike shopping - I'd been thinking about getting something like a Cotic Rocket or Orange Alpine 160 in the future but I'm very lazy with maintenance and not a great fan of fettling and I like how hardtails feel. I've never played with FEA on bike frames so can't comment on the gussets with any accuracy but I suspect it would take a lot to break a frame built like that without any gussets at all...

My only concerns with the Ranger are that it's a bit on the short side (I'd want to be able to run a very short stem), the seat tube pillar doesn't go all that high (probably ok for me but I'm not that tall) and I'm not sure about mud clearance if you're running big tyres what with the short stays and gussets. Will report back when I get to ride one...

chiefgrooveguru - Member

My only concerns with the Ranger are that it's a bit on the short side (I'd want to be able to run a very short stem), the seat tube pillar doesn't go all that high (probably ok for me but I'm not that tall) and I'm not sure about mud clearance if you're running big tyres what with the short stays and gussets. Will report back when I get to ride one...

Well, the thing about custom builders is...

Amedias, if you don't mind me asking, roughly how much was your new front end?

My only concerns with the Ranger are that it's a bit on the short side (I'd want to be able to run a very short stem), the seat tube pillar doesn't go all that high

see, thats easy to fix, when you speak to them, just say "Can you make this bit longer" job done!

i can't help but think they've had to use very thick tube just so the tubes don't pinch and buckle where the 'gussets' attach. surely it would be stronger and less susceptable to failure if the 'gussets' weren't there.

podge, happy to discuss money via email, but don't think it's appropriate on the thread as it was a custom job and price very much determined by what I was asking for, and I consider it reasonable, not cheap, but not overpriced.

The one thing I will say is the cost of the frame included all the design and CAD work, including the best part of 3 months of tweaking...and I would not have been able to do that on my own so it's not just paying for welding some tubes together.

Nice! VIN plate last seen on [url= http://soulcraftbikes.com ]Soulcraft[/url]

Cool, I might drop you a line tomorrow thanks

no worries, mail is in my profile

how about we actually try and support UK builders trying to do stuff like this instead of sitting there picking holes in their gussets across the internet

I'm all for it, but as I said, I believe those gussets are doing nothing structural to the frame. If they're meant to be decorative, fine aslong as they're claimed to be so. If they're supposed to be structural, then it gives me no faith in the rest of their design.

To quote an american ( cant remember which ) -" badly designed gussets - telling frames where to crack since 1980"

Shame because i do think it looks good in an individual sort of way

Im happy to be proven wrong if they can show fea testing that says otherwise but if the gussets serving any purpose at all its exerting a point load in the tube rather than letting the weld take it.

BTR with CEN certification £725?

That's fair enough trail rat, if you know better.

I just prefer to take the approach of assuming that the designer with the Engineering background that designs and makes bike frames knows more about it than me, and I'm happy to be proved wrong if all their frames start falling apart at the gussets, I'll let you know if mine does.

You also seemed pretty dismissive of Pauls racing background too, without bothering to do 5mins research...

Having doubts and questions is good and healthy, and nobody is going to get things 100% right first time, but it just seems there's a lot of poo-pooing going on when there should really be more support for grass-roots UK builders like this.

Were you just as cynical when Pace, Hope, Orange, X-Lite, USE, Curtis, Demon etc started building things in sheds?

I like what they're doing, and I like the way they're trying to do it, for that reason I support them, I'm sure they'll make mistakes, and subsequently make better bikes because of it, but we should be supporting people like this!

If you haven't been before then I can heartily recommend going to Bespoked Bristol to see what other stuff is coming from small UK builders at the moment!

^^^ HERE HERE. (in typical parliamentary style)

support for grass-roots UK builders like this.

Support here.. fair to good vfm for a UK-made product and it'd be good to see more from them. Good luck to BTR.

haha i know all about pauls racing history - i too was a member of SDH when he started ripping - what i was dismissive of was the claim(not by paul i might add) he was on RSP team.

Time will tell and i wish them every success.

FWIW as a previous owner of a LARGE downhill bike build in a car garage im all for out there in shed built designed bikes - it rode well , was slack low and plush as owt without bobbing like a badun

shame it just couldnt hold its self together - but it certainly had no calcs done.

Grass roots doesn't have to mean clunky

The sooner people stop putting up with sub standard products because it's British the better

That is a general statement not one just relating to this frame