I am new to this forum and would like your opinions please

I have been riding carbon bikes for a few years now and have never had a problem.
In December I bought a full sus carbon bike ( I will not mention the manufacturer yet as a dispute is on going with them) on the first ride the seat tube broke. The manufacturer replaced the whole bike and apologised,they also said that this was a known problem and since then they have reinforced the tube. 3 days ago I was on a ride and the carbon linkage disintegrated. The manufacturer has said that they will replace the bike when they get new ones in.They have said that this has happened before on 3 other bikes.

Is it within my rights to be demanding a full refund for the bike since I am very concerned that this will keep happening and I have no confidence left in the product.

"Is it within my rights to be demanding a full refund for the bike"

yep, TandemJeremy will be along shortly with chapter and verse but you've given them a chance to rectify it and they haven't.

"not fit for purpose" is the phrase you ought to use.

From my most recent experience:

Repair
Replace
Refund

If its a safety critical part you have every right to a refund. If the LBS says you'll have to take it up with the manufacturer – wrong. Your contract is with the bikeshop.

Ask for a full refund stating due to the second failure that you have no faith in the product.

Personally – (especially with the admission of failures)- I wouldnt go near their product in your position.

Ask for a full refund stating due to the second failure that you have no faith in the product.

+1

Don't accept a replacement product thinking 'its too much hassle I'll just stick it on ebay'.

I've done this before- your out of pocket.

Blimey, under these circumstances I would be all over them for a refund pronto. I had multiple failures on a bike some years ago and ended up with a refund after about 9 months when the bike had been in the workshop more than out on the trails.

Ditto the above, a refund is well within your rights within the first 6 months (the manufacturer would have to prove the product was not deffective when they sold it during this time).

After 6 months the burden of proof is with you so a little harder to get your way, but you can still demand a refund, it might just be a little less forthcoming.

ALSO, its not limited to carbon frames, aluminium, steel and ti frames have all had high profile disasters when a product was first released to the market.

ooo ooo OOO can we start guessing what it is yet?

Can I take a wild stab? Is it by any chance a Felt or a Trek?

Hora is right, get yourself a refund, stuff the Manuf.

Sounds as if they're leaving the testing of their product to their customers.

Get your money back, its your right.

😀

L

Can you give us a subtle / cryptic (or blatant) clue as to who the manufacturer is? Please?

as in "My first is in pea but not in canoe, what am I?"

Planning to buy a carbon hardtail frame later in the year, so I'd really like to know …

I had a really close call on my forks- they dropped suddenly into their travel and I clouted a large circa 2foot bolder with the left lower. That got my attention. I decided that I didn't want anymore close calls.

Why should you feel like you could potentially end up with a broken collar bone, jaw etc etc because the LBS/manufacturer told you to suck up and see?

I remember once (a while ago mind)-a bikeshop said to me 'yes we'll give you a refund minus a charge for the use its had' 😆

Quote the sale of goods act 1979 section 14 sub section 2

You can cancel your contract with the seller if the goods were not of a "merchantable quality"

Thanks for the feedback up to now.
I will not reveal the manufacturer yet as I am considering legal action against them for supply of a product with known faults. One of the comments they have made is (Carbon is Carbon and it will eventual break and mistakes will happen)

Are they for real ? You had to be speaking to the money men for that comment ….no engineer would say that …….certainly not in conjunctuon with their own product !

If it is the truth then why shouldn't they say it?

One up to them for being honest. We all balls things up sometimes. If you then try to cover it up it tends to make a small problem bigger.

Quote the sale of goods act 1979 section 14 sub section 2

Agree. When it comes to bikes we are expected to take crap for some reason.

If a telly blew on you twice you wouldn't accept that it would be repaired and returned would you? Well I wouldn't anyhooo

If it was a Toyota it would be headline news and the good `ol U.S. of A would be slapping a gurt big fine on them.

Given the percentage failure rate v sales it is likely the % rate is similar to poor old Toyota.

Why should we be so soft on bike failures v white goods, cars or any other consumable ❓ eg look at all the neg comments on here re Halfords.

The failures you have highlighted could be just as likely to cause serious injury/ become life threatening as any Toyota brake problem.

Carbon is a difficult material and it can be absolutely rock solid if designed and made well, but if it isn't designed well it will eventually break and quality control mistakes do happen. But I'd be hoping they'd design it well and have good quality control. Clearly not, time to move away from the pointless material and back to known quantities until they improve 😀

If its the truth then product should never have reached market ……

If its the truth then product should never have reached market ……

Carbon is Carbon and it will eventual break, if not engineered correctly, and mistakes will happen

There, I've correct their sentence for them 😉

Crikey, a clue to the identity would be welcomed though (I currently have a HT Carbon frame on order) 😐

Clue is 'linkage'

Untill we see a photo, can we assume this is fiction?

I'd be pushing for a full refund from the manufacturer…the downside is likely to be a whole lot of hassle for the shop you bought it from (and a whole load of hassle to you) – I think (but not sure) – you go back to the shop and demand the refund, they then take it up with the manufacturer.

I love carbon, think it works very well but I've never been convinced it would last as well in some areas – for main frame parts I reckon it is good but you mention linkages and carbon so I'm guessing it's a rather fancy bike and the linkages are also carbon? I know the suspensions truts and stuff are carbon on F1 cars but this just doesn't seem to make sense to me…

I'm waaay too clumsy for Carbon.

Unfortunately this is not fiction.
I am really upset about the way the manufacturer has handled this up to now and I am considering all the options available to me which is why I have asked for your advice.

"you go back to the shop and demand the refund, they then take it up with the manufacturer."

it's the shops choice what they do but the consumers contract is with the shop and the refund is provided by them. If they have to then try and get money from the importer to cover it there's their business.

This has happened to me before, FS carbon frame snapped below the seat post and linkage. Not very nice as it resulted in an over the bars type crash, luckily nothing on me was broken, but could have easily.

Dealer was fantastic, becasue the couldn't replace the frame, I guess they were reworking the model as a result of the frame being weak there, so they provide a full refund.

Very happy with the outcome since I'd been riding the frame for nearly a year, replaced it with something better/stronger, still in carbon mind 😉

BTW, is yours or german/far east origin?

Photo evidence 😉

frozenearth – if you want advice prior to takign legal action then consult a lawyer.

if you accept a refund from the shop you may prejudice any other action you might take (particularly if they ask you to sign soemthign 'in full and final settlelement').

Peopel on here have said get a refund (which we know you are entitled to) anythign else is going to be a long road for you to go down and you won't get anything back until the end of it (if then).

Even in Formula 1 the testing is minimal:

"Hilton believes that F1 regulations should allow for more testing of new components before they make it into the practice sessions.

‘With F1, you have to keep pushing the development of the car,’ he said. ’But over the last couple of years, regulations have greatly restricted testing and that certainly makes it difficult for the teams to introduce new things.’"

Metal Matrix Composite is comparable to CFRP

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/video/mechanical-failure-causes-f1-wheel-loss/1001801.article

Santacruz use carbon linkages don't they?

I don't understand some of the suggestions about Lawyers.. mediation etc.

Its clear cut sale of goods act/consumer for me.

Ps. Bream, tidy your bedroom please.

hora do you read any of the posts?

OP: I will not reveal the manufacturer yet as I am considering legal action against them for supply of a product with known faults.

hence the discussion of lawyers…

Thanks Hora, I'll tell the wife to get off her arse for once 😉 😆

what has the material got to do with this? plenty of aluminium frames and parts have been poorly designed and failed, do they have a different legal status?

"what has the material got to do with this?"
So far the clues are:
Its a bike, carbon and its broken
no pics yet though.

hora do you read any of the posts?

This is STW.