Nothing to do with market forces. It is because they don’t sell what I want and know less than I do about my chosen style of bike.

Bike shops have to find a unique selling point to stay around. If they think customer loyalty alone will do that then they are kidding themselves. Shop rides, weekends away, discount schemes, coffee, cake, advice, a good atmosphere, old fashioned salesmanship, servicing, suspension tuning, free bike demos, stocking non-discounted brands etc. All things you can’t get online easily.

Interestingly Spesh UK are trying to support LBSs to some degree by not supplying kit to the large online shops. How that will work out we will see, but it certainly seems to be a nod toward the bricks and mortar shop, even if they supply Evans and Cycle Surgery too (who, to be fair, are still bricks and mortar shops).

Everyone take a deep breath and try not to flame me for my opinion. Our prices are on our website and on chalkboards in the shop for everyone to see.

We’ve been open 5 1/2 years now and we are now doing less retail than ever. There is a finite amount of work that can go through the stand in a working day. The staff still need paying and when I work out the hours I do I’m on way less than minimum let alone living wage.

So, do we put our workshop prices to cover the loss in retail? Please bear in mind we *cannot* compete with online. We just can’t. We can’t get access to the grey/oem market in the way online retailers can. I’m experienced, qualified and passionate but people don’t want to pay for that.

You are going to see a lot of bike shops pack up in the next year. I like a bargain as much as the next person but it doesn’t come without it’s consequences.

I know there are some bad bike shops out there. But we’re going to lose the good ones as well.

There ends my rambly two penneth.

Aye, this is the problem – in many shops (mine included) the repairs and other time-consuming things aren’t profitable enough on their own, bike sales have to subsidise them. That’s not true of all businesses, but it’s true of many.

Garagebikes, you dont need me to tell you how to compete in a very competitive marketplace so i won’t, i will however tell you from a consumers point of view why or what i would like from a LBS.

As for pricing, with most things, charge accordingly. If i walk in off the street with a snapped gear cable for instance………. and you are woring on a customers bike and have to stop, I would expect to be charged accordingly, i’d expect you to explain to me why this is, in the nicest possible way you understand 🙂

Likewise, if i stumble upon a SRAM Force 10 Speed Crankset at a bargain price from an online retailer and i do not posses the tools or the skills to fit it and get the gears set up i would again pay good money to get this fitted first time right with no crank arm falling off etc, there’s got to be a market for good reliable know how, honest advice at a decent price.

Like Grimsby Fish, it cant all be from Grimsby on a Friday afternoon but you pay more for it at your front door, Likewise Ringtons Tea, A good fish N Chip shop or a proper butcher. Cyclists are a particular type of consumer. Generally though they will pay for what they want not necessarily what they need.

Everyone take a deep breath and try not to flame me for my opinion.

Unfortunately you sound like most shops I know of. It’s bloody tough out there. Anyway you can diversify further? The obvious one is selling something like coffee, but that’s also obviously not always appropriate or relevant.

My guess is that niches are there that can be filled, or as written by a former colleague of mine recently, get in bed with a big brand: https://cyclingindustry.news/sales-agents-view-the-toxification-of-the-bicycle-industry-supply-chain/

This is also worth a quick read: http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/the-changing-face-of-the-british-bike-shop-165426

for pricing, with most things, charge accordingly. If i walk in off the street with a snapped gear cable for instance………. and you are woring on a customers bike and have to stop, I would expect to be charged accordingly, i’d expect you to explain to me why this is, in the nicest possible way you understand

Aye, right 😆 I can see the thread on here now

LBS tried to charge me £50 to fit a gear cable!!11!

Yeah it was 530 on a Friday night and I needed it for Saturday, and the mechanic was having to stay late to clear a backlog, but it’s not like it’s rocket science! I even bought the cable from the shop! Shysters!

Can’t gloat over someones business going to the wall. My own angle is I shop carefully (bikestuff and clothes) partly out of habit having grown up poor. Lots of working people are seeing their surplus monthly salary squeezed tight due to spiralling bills and childcare costs. One thing has to give, I.e spare money for hobbies.

RIP shop 🙁

Another view – I wanted a particular pair of shorts for a particular race and I occasionally get discounted/sponsored equipment. I phoned Mavic HQ and they were very keen for me to support my LBS and obtain the shorts from them….. I duly phoned the shop in Chichester and placed the order. The shop proceeded to forget to order from head-office, then ordered the wrong style, then promised the shorts would be with me in another week and that I could have them at a discounted price.
This all took three weeks.

I cancelled the order and purchased with the help of Mr Google and the right pair arrived in 48 hours.

Some LBS don’t help themselves (and this particular shop is a sponsor of our mountain bike club)

At times LBS don’t help themselves unfortunately, I’ve had 2 new bikes from one shop with issues straight out the door, one bike had the indexing completely out and the other had finger tight stem bolts 🙁

Interestingly Spesh UK are trying to support LBSs to some degree by not supplying kit to the large online shops. How that will work out we will see, but it certainly seems to be a nod toward the bricks and mortar shop,

Slightly different area but Giant Australia has an online ban for retailers, it’s shop or nothing for them a bold but solid sign of support for the thing that matters to them – getting people on their bikes but on the right bike in the right size and set up properly. I was chasing end of line and old stock Defy’s, found one in Melbourne and managed to take a work trip to fly over and pick it up. As they explained if they have anything to do with shipping it they won’t be a distributor next year. It would blow a hole into people like Paul’s cycles etc. who seem to specialise in that but in the end they probably don’t care. Good to see Spec following that lead they also have the cash to invest in their real dealers.

A shift from the whole industry to value the LBS would make a huge difference, supplying the LBS with parts at a competitive rate etc. but it won’t fix the main problem. People are unable to ask or too scared to call, so may threads end up with it’s not on the website so it doesn’t exist, it wasn’t on the shelf so they don’t have it. Peoples retail habits have changed massively and both shops need to catch up and consumers need to be a little braver. Most shops here this time of year (end of line) will be getting a weekly email from the distributor with all the clearout stock on it. There are some gems that will never be worth putting online as they will be gone but if you ask about 29r wheel sets or these bikes there could be heaps of bargains.

Bike shops are there for people who want a tyre, a seat, a pedal etc,. for their bike.
Halfords can offer this.

Online shops via ability to search 100’s of them are there for people who want specific items, i.e. A brand of tyre in a specific model and size in correct compound choice, protection layer etc,.
LBS will never do this. As soon as they say the words “I will order one in” they have lost as I can order one in straight to my door.

You can blame the internet/online retail but it is not all about price, it is about choice. I buy at least 90% of my stuff online (all stuff not just bike) and it is driven by getting the items I want ahead of getting a better price.

Bike shops are there for people who want a tyre, a seat, a pedal etc,. for their bike.
Halfords can offer this.

Halfords can’t offer me advice on the seat, probably havn’t tried any of them, probably don’t do seat fitting (to you not the bike)
Most of the local shops near me won’t carry every combination (not many wet screams etc. get sold here) but will offer the stuff that sells well locally which is usually a good starting point for the tyres your after along with providing some good feedback on whats working out and what isn’t holding up. The internet is great for telling you what tyre I got me like it’s amazing (I have no idea where,what/how you ride but you should get this one)

You can blame the internet/online retail but it is not all about price, it is about choice.

and here we hit the catch 22, as soon as people stop looking/asking a shop for a product they will probably think twice when ordering more, who orders more chains when there is a pile sat there, or the new Enduro lids everyone was asking about then never bought etc.

I’ve wondered for a while if there was a model for a LBS that involved a cooperative approach with LBSs ganging together with a ‘mothership’ warehouse and slimmed down bricks and mortar shops. Online presence and distribution from the warehouse with the option of it being delivered to the shop for fitting. Bulk buying power from a group of shops that might challenge the big hitter online outfits. The ability of the shops to get their hands on a broader range of stock with the outlay covered by more operations making going into an actual shop more attractive again. Some of the shops, depending on location, being bog standard kids and family outfits and others doing the niche stuff. The ability to market/sponsors events with the resources of a group rather than an individual.

As a LBS owner (in common I guess with lots of other markets) faced with oblivion I would have thought a certain flexibility about the direction the business needs to go in order to survive must be needed. I guess the only thing that has saved some is the rapid rise of the commuter cyclist and the mamil meaning there is a little more wealth to spread and crumbs to catch.

hatter – Member

Noone ever took their first steps in this brilliant little pastime of ours because of Canyon or CRC.

Sure about that? Maybe if you lived near either of their two bike shops you would change your mind. CRC is an LBS to an awful lot of people. The sport has taken off massively over here in last few years and CRC has done very well from the noobs. Most seasoned riders prefer to support smaller bike shops rather than feed the machine. If i need something quickly, i’ll pop over as it’s can be handy having the worlds largest bike shop a 10 minute drive away.

I’ve wondered for a while if there was a model for a LBS that involved a cooperative approach with LBSs ganging together with a ‘mothership’ warehouse and slimmed down bricks and mortar shops.

It’s been tried, I forget the name of the scheme, but it was basically a buying group for bike shops. The basic problem is organising bike shops to work together is like herding cats 😉

It does work in Germany, though.

Cycling straddles utility and aspirational hobby. Lbs is caught in that weird place.

Towns with big utility cycling eg Peterboro, Cambridge, London etc seem to have little lbs hidden away that tick over equivalent backstreet garages where people want their bike back on the road, want convenience and aren’t arsed about brands. That model seems equivalent to the car garage independent vs main dealer, lbs vs Halfords. whether it’s rewarding or accessible to new entrants I don’t know.

Otherwise the aspirational hobby end seems like the horse has bolted. customers more informed, big online retailers shagging you on price and choice and often monopolising availability. Ubiquity of couriers. Free returns. It’s really hard to spend your money in the lbs when buying online is cheaper and easier. Even high end servicing is going online. Box up your forks, send em off, comes back in a few days. At the minute it’s shit to be an lbs but great selfishly to be a customer. It is. To wring our hands and say I would use my lbs but… Is just lying to ourselves.

However the what next might be shit for customers too, maybe even other parts of the industry. big venture capitalists aren’t getting into wiggle and chain reaction for a laugh.

My LBS’ charge 2-3 times as much as online for the same parts and rarely have them in stock so I have to wait as long as for it to get here from one of the German lot. Happy to pay for fitting or even pay more if the 2-3 times as much includes fitting, however when I asked for a crankset swap, I was told they could fit me in 6 weeks as “It’s holidays time and we’re understaffed”. I went to Decathlon who did it while I waited as “It’s only a 15 minute job”

I don’t know the answer for small bike shops but here in Luxembourg it feels very much like everything is expensive and the service levels are shit. I know one place that offers great service and use him as much as possible but he’s a one-man operation.

Is it commonplace these days for high street LBSs to diversify into things like maintenance courses; skills courses for different age groups over different terrain; small scale cafe etc.?

Maybe another partial solution for them is to specialise in custom-spec builds, rather than off-the-peg?

Just seeing this thread again has reminded me I need to book my Wazoo in for its 6-month checkup (£20 for two checkups over the year, in any Halfords branch) and see if they can do me a deal on fitting a new crown race to my Carbon fatty Fork if I buy a new FSA 11N headset through them for ~£15! 😆

However the what next might be shit for customers too, maybe even other parts of the industry. big venture capitalists aren’t getting into wiggle and chain reaction for a laugh.

That’s what has been worrying me, the VC’s come in and rip all the profit out leaving a mess behind when they sod off to the next cash-cow. The online giants could well have killed off most of the LBS’s by then and we’re left with a mess of poor online prices and no local skill base to call upon. It’s why I’ve tried to buy from my LBS as much as practicable this last year, which has been tough! Simple things like a specific (and commonly used version) tyre meant it had to be ordered in, also meant I had to pay full retail.

Currently gearing up to buy a load of winter kit that needs replacing and, despite the LBS giving me discount regularly (I never ask for it, drop hints if it’s a bike purchase…) it’s a sizeable chunk cheaper to get it all online. As in 30-35%!

@tomhoward, that was me 6 months ago, trying to index my gears, Friday Morning……… The next day I was cycling the TPT Sat & the other half Sunday. I decided that the inner gear cable was goosed, stretched, been on the bike all winter and I could see the outer sheath fracked and inner rusted hindering shifting,

I chucked the bike in the car and drove 10 miles to the LBS, I explained the above, leave it with me he said, if I can’t fit it in to day it’ll be tmrw…….. WTF…….. I explained again.
He told me to pick up at 5:30. I drove back home, 2 miles from home he rang me to say it was ready so I turned round and went back, paid £40. I bought X2 inner tubes as I thought it would save fixing punctures and knew some of the other riders wouldn’t be carrying any. 700c wheels with 28mm Vittoria tyres on, he handed me two tubes 28-35 or 30-35 I can’t remember, so I challenged this and he said it would be fine. It wasn’t, the tube kept blowing the tyres off the rim.

I got back home, had a brew cleaned the bike, had another brew then I decided to take it down the road, that’s when the whole thing fell apart literally, not only did he just change the inner cable and left the delaminated outer on but for some unknown reason he took 6 links out of my chain, bike in car and straight to the shop, he denied this whilst stood there in the shop with the missing links on the floor beside the work stand. Being a tad obsessed with oiling chains I knew there were 112 links in the chain, how come then there were now 106 and 6 were on his floor.

I think I paid fair money for a rush job on a Friday baring in mind I needed it for the next morning, I had no cable inner or outer and no decent cable cutters. he imparted his wisdom and told me I shouldn’t use the top 4 gears on the rear cassette whilst in the big ring up front, why he thought he needed to confirm this by shortening my chain I have no idea.

I’ll never shop there again, I doubt that will make much difference but plenty of other folk have told me similar horror stories. The sad thing is there’s a Pro rider always in and out of there and has been pictured doing so on the telly…… So he’s got it made really,

I did meet this rider with other Pro,s he was riding wit whilst out riding a few months ago, I proceeded to tell him what a …. This chap was and he agreed. Then he told me who to take my bike to if I wanted it perfect, turns out he was right.

It’s not a shop, he does it from home in his garage.

Yeah it was 530 on a Friday night and I needed it for Saturday, and the mechanic was having to stay late to clear a backlog, but it’s not like it’s rocket science! I even bought the cable from the shop! Shysters!

I think he was politely telling you that he’s incredibly busy working late to sort out other non-rocket science jobs that other non-rocket scientists want doing, and to go away.

atlaz – Member
My LBS’ charge 2-3 times as much as online for the same parts and rarely have them in stock so I have to wait as long as for it to get here from one of the German lot.

so what RRP is 3x the online price?
Are we talking clearance items here?

*feels somewhat prophetic…*

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/13-for-a-gear-cable-no-wonder-some-lbs-are-struggling-against-the-internet

Oh, and PMJ, read my post again 😉