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Alcohol Pricing

62 posts & 37 voices | Started 1 year ago by soobalias | Latest reply from coffeeking

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Scots on the rocks

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soobalias - Member

Scotland are again trying to lead the way and look set to embarass the rest of the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11155653

I think that a minimum price per unit would not only begin to throttle the binge/anti social drinking culture that we have been growing steadily over the last 20yrs, it would also reduce the price difference between supermarket loss leading and local public houses.

Or perhaps we should go down the prohibition route, that seems to be working well with other recreational drugs!

Posted 1 year ago #
thomthumb - Member

binge drinking is not a financial thing it is a social issue. price increase will do nothing to discourage binge drinking.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

I doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

Opposition parties at Holyrood intend to unite to block the policy as they say it would hit responsible drinkers.

does anyone know any responsible drinkers who regularly buy 3litres of cider for £2.99?

Posted 1 year ago #
Penrod Pooch - Member

Price is a red herring. This isn't going to work. Young people living at home will happily spend all their wages on alcohol. I know I did

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

but if alcohol costs more, you'll get less of it in return for 'all your wages'

Posted 1 year ago #
Ho hum - Member

Agreed Penrod Pooch!

Also, alcoholics with partners and children will continue to buy the same quantity of alcohol, but it will cost more leaving less for to be spent on the partners and children.

That's not a very good idea.

Posted 1 year ago #
rkk01 - Member

Really??

How about dropping the price?

Seriously. Went to France for 2 weeks hols in August, and before we went everyone was warning us about how "expensive" France had become.

Yet very drinkable Appelation Controllee wines were in the order of 2.5 - 3 euros per 750 cl bottle. Cider as cheap as 0.99 euro for a 1.5 l bottle (and still very drinkable)

Didn't see any drunken and aggressive French binge drinkers anywhere.

This is a problem of social attitudes, not cost

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

cynic-al - Member

I doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!

er, yes they are - very cheap.

'cheaper than a night out'

Posted 1 year ago #
soobalias - Member

i just think that pushing folk out of their houses, street corners, kiddys playgrounds...... and back into local pubs is in general a good thing.

Currently the pubs just cannot compete on price.

Im not suggesting that people cannot drink to excess in either the short term or long term in a pub, but the sense of community and responsibility allows youngsters to push their boundaries (short term) in a safe-ish environment and everyone else keeps an eye out for each other (long term)

personal choice will still allow folk to kill themselves with alcohol, but surely at present hiding in your house with a few £5 bottles of scotch is too easy.

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

I claim my prize!

Seems I'm the only one that can see the sarcasm in your post(s).

Or perhaps we should go down the prohibition route, that seems to be working well with other recreational drugs!

So only the poor are alcoholics? If pricing was the real reason then surely alcohol ought to be priced on an individual level, based upon 'disposable' income?

Posted 1 year ago #
don simon - Member

Like all addictions, price is not a factor. People will make other sacrifices to obtain their drug of choice.

Prohibition is not a solution either.

Posted 1 year ago #
Coyote - Member

Cynical money making exercise on behalf of the govt. Economy's screwed, where we going to get more cash from? Minimum price on booze! Full of win. More cash and we are seen to be caring too. Result.

It's a social issue, end of. Unless we change our view that in order to have a "good night" we need to get slaughtered then this will not go away. Oh, and "Yes," I do like beer. Lots of beer.

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

Coyote - Member

money making exercise on behalf of the govt

so it's a good thing then?

Posted 1 year ago #
hora - Member

Who cares? Two weeks without booze here

Posted 1 year ago #
soobalias - Member

It's a social issue, end of. Unless we change our view...

echoes other thoughts above, but doesnt go so far as to suggest how.

Make running a public house affordable again, away from the profiteering of big businesses. Let the people be sociable, let them talk, let them seek company and comfort instead of making drinking to forget the easy and cheap option

nobody has a better idea.

Posted 1 year ago #
Coyote - Member

Make running a public house affordable again, away from the profiteering of big businesses

Couldn't agree more! I spoke with a landlord about 15 -20 years ago who said that the big brewerys were killing the pub trade and that there was little profit in beer.

Posted 1 year ago #
cu dubh - Member

Coyote, I am not sure how fixing a minimum price per unit raises revenue for the Scottish government. It may well do so for the companies selling alcohol such as the supermarkets but there is no direct increase in income for the government from that.

It is clear that using a minimum selling price is a blunt instrument for reducing alcohol consumption which may have a negative effect on the poor moderate drinkers but at least the Scottish government is trying to do something about the alcohol consumption problem that exists in this country. A change in attitude towards alcohol consumption is what is needed but that will take time. If binge and excessive drinking can be reduced now surely that is a good thing. The measure has the support of the BMA and the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons among others who deal with the consequences of this country's approach to alcohol. I am just back from a holiday in Italy where alcohol is freely available, plenty of bars, restaurants and supermakets but no drunk people patrolling the streets looking for trouble. I am sure a trip to inner city Naples or Rome might see me finding those people but the attitude alcohol in other countries does appear to be much healthier. How we change that attitude here is beyond me other than to say that I am sure our approach will not change overnight so let's try to forcefully reduce consumption while at the same time trying to change our unhealthy attitude.

Posted 1 year ago #
yunki - Member

ahwiles - Member

Coyote - Member

money making exercise on behalf of the govt

so it's a good thing then?

ahahahahahahahah hah ahha haahahahah aha ahaahahaha..

OH dear.. this is exactly the sort of reasoning that allows our rich and powerful government to syphon seemingly endless amounts of pocket change from the extremely poor population to drip into the enormous ocean of debt that is created in order to line their sable coats with silk..

lord have mercy

Posted 1 year ago #
grumm - Member

I doubt it will work, drugs aint exactly cheap!

An ecstacy tablet currently costs around £2.50 round here, and will do considerably more to you than a pint (which you would just about get for £2.50).

I'm not sure what to think about this - I do really agree that something needs to be done about the profitability of running pubs, but as I understand it the main problem is pubcos milking landlords dry - this isn't going to stop that happening - they will just make more profits.

Posted 1 year ago #
joemarshall - Member

Like all addictions, price is not a factor. People will make other sacrifices to obtain their drug of choice.

Price is a red herring. This isn't going to work. Young people living at home will happily spend all their wages on alcohol. I know I did

To be fair to the Scottish government, this kind of comment isn't actually true - there is loads of evidence that increasing the price of alcohol and/or adding minimum unit prices makes a great deal of difference to how much drinking goes on. It also has a significant effect on drink driving rates, alcohol related crime etc. Loads of evidence from places where they did bring this kind of policy in.

The government even commissioned some research on this:

Independent Review of the Effects of Alcohol Pricing and Promotion at the link below.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publichealth/Healthimprovement/Alcoholmisuse/DH_4001740

Didn't see any drunken and aggressive French binge drinkers anywhere.

Right, no French drink related violence, drink driving, health problems (cirrhosis of the liver rates are very high) etc. either, it'd be great to have the French attitude to drinking.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/25/france.jonhenley

Called "Alcoolisme : Un déni national" if anyone happens to be in a French library and interested in reading the original source.

Posted 1 year ago #
druidh - Member

The funniest part of all this is the "Scottish" Labour opposing these plans after publishing their very own report showing a minimum price would be a good thing and the Tories/LibDems opposing it despite the "UK" government wanting to do exactly the same.

Political point scoring with the health of the Scottish nation.

Posted 1 year ago #
cu dubh - Member

druidh +1

Whatever Wee Eck proposed Scottish Labour and the Tories would oppose it.

Posted 1 year ago #
PJM1974 - Member

I agree that it's a cultural issue and not a pricing one.

I would go futher and suggest that pub alcohol duties are reduced, to encourage more people to socialise in the pub rather than drinking at home - the landlord can refuse to serve people who've been deemed to have imbibed too much.

Posted 1 year ago #
Lord Summerisle - Member

does anyone know any responsible drinkers who regularly buy 3litres of cider for £2.99?

I've been buying Lidl's and Aldi's 2litre dry cider for £1.50. as its nice, and easier to take camping the 2litre bottle than it is several bottles of beer.
still that bottle will last use a couple of days.

as to Scotland 'leading the way' several councils in England are proposing the same.
Greater Manchester is considering it, as is Rossendale, was i was down near Buxton on Trent a few weeks ago, their local paper also had the headline that the council there was considering the same.

Still no one has come up with a way of getting it past the EU anti price fixing rules...

Posted 1 year ago #
soobalias - Member

suggest that pub alcohol duties are reduced

Still no one has come up with a way of getting it past the EU anti price fixing rules...

would that work?

Posted 1 year ago #
ahwiles - Member

yunki - Member

ahahahahahahahah hah ahha haahahahah aha ahaahahaha..

lord have mercy

i'm happy to pay taxes, am i so unusual?

Posted 1 year ago #
coogan - Member

I loves the booze me.

Posted 1 year ago #
cynic-al - Member

the landlord can refuse to serve people who've been deemed to have imbibed too much.

She/he's already under a (rarely exercised) duty to do so is he not?

Posted 1 year ago #
soobalias - Member

yep, but the corner shop will happily sell me two bottles of vodka and a pack of fizzy cola bottles.

Posted 1 year ago #
robdob - Member

I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.

Posted 1 year ago #
binners - Member

cheap cider indeed. Tsk. No class any of you. My liquid intake already costs a fortune. Its 'reassuringly expensive'

Posted 1 year ago #
binners - Member

Because robdob, we need somewhere to go before we have a fight outside the kebab house. Do you know nothing?

Posted 1 year ago #
b r - Member

Coyote, I am not sure how fixing a minimum price per unit raises revenue for the Scottish government. It may well do so for the companies selling alcohol such as the supermarkets but there is no direct increase in income for the government from that.

VAT?

Posted 1 year ago #
grumm - Member

I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.

Especially in rural communities pubs fulfill a vital role as a hub of the community. Similar to a PO. Lots of places become dull and lifeless when the local pub closes.

Posted 1 year ago #
gonefishin - Member

VAT?

VAT is collected by central government and does not go the Scottish Government. I also suspect that given that all this will do is to raise the price of very cheap alcohol that the increase in VAT receipts will be small.

Posted 1 year ago #
trailmonkey - Member

Does this mean we'll have to endure hordes of the wretched creatures down here on booze cruises ?

I can't see why so many people are trying to protect the public houses. Why on earth do we need them? Please tell me.

It's this new thing scientists have discovered called social interaction.

Posted 1 year ago #
tron - Member

That well known paragon of wisdom, Jeremy Clarkson, once said that we drink like Northern Europeans and the French and Italians drink like Southern Europeans, because that's what we are. I think he might have a point.

Posted 1 year ago #
Ho hum - Member

If the UK had a similar climate to the south of Europe and it wasn't so damn dark for such a long time in the winter then I reckon my alcohol consumption would fall.

Posted 1 year ago #
derek_starship - Member

More of a step towards the Nanny State. Christ - we are human - we make our own choices. If somebody wants to drink themselves to death, they will, irrespective of alcohol pricing. In Sweden for example, beers above 3.5%, wine and spirits are very expensive (heavily taxed) and are only available from the Systembolaget - government run outlets with limited opening hours. So those who want to get around this construct a home still and get bladdered / dead on distilled grain / potato mashes.

Choice.

On a lighter note:

Funny!

Posted 1 year ago #