Right then, I work in a shop which also has a workshop (i'll let you work out what sort of shop it is 🙂 )
Whilst myself and the mechanic understand that its a drafty old building we both feel the working temperature is too low, for example today it didnt get above 6 degrees indoors. We have a single halogen heater with only one bar working which is hidden away in the other corner under the computer so thats helping no one. Giving the guidlines are for 13 and 16 degrees depending on type of work what are the repercussions for the owner if he doesnt at least help us out?

Halogen heater are basicly useless as they heat a person and not the air,a while ago,British Rail installed them in signal boxes and they got chucked out by the unions as the staff said it didnt heat the air,or their feet.

Buy your own heater,and plug it in,being cold in a semi manual job with tools and moving things is dangerous.

Awaits the arrival with trumpets of Tandem Jeremy, the union man.

Not on at all. I presume you've asked for heating improvements, officially rather than just "it's cold in here" comments?

Project, I'm not buying my own heater as I'm sure he can afford it (whilst I can not) given his recently announced desire to spend 3000 on some new equipment for the shop.
We have at various points mentioned it and its getting to the point where I'm about to snap. We are a small shop so we(the staff) are trying to keep it on a friendly basis but frankly our patience is running out.
I'm not in a union currently (cant afford the subs) but think I will bite the bullet and join again

I think 6 degrees is pushing it on general working conditions.

Not sure the HSE would get involved? Plenty people working in unheated environments e.g. out door workers. But they are interested in the provision of a safe working environment. So if your work entails working without PPE (gloves for example) to do intricate tasks you might have a case if you find that hands and fingers get excessively cold you could increase the chances of injuring yourself or getting work related health issues.

I reckon its a bit of a grey area for HSE, i would certainly say its not good practice. You certainly entitled to be provided with work clothing to caryy out your work in such an environment, and you are not exactly the most motivated employee if your freezing your nuts off so its in the employers best interests to make you more comfortable.

The temperature in workrooms should provide reasonable comfort without the need for special clothing. Where such a temperature is impractical because of hot or cold processes, all reasonable steps should be taken to achieve a temperature which is as close as possible to comfortable. 'Workroom' means a room where people normally work for more than short periods.

The temperature in workrooms should normally be at least 16 degrees Celsius unless much of the work involves severe physical effort in which case the temperature should be at least 13 degrees Celsius. These temperatures may not, however, ensure reasonable comfort, depending on other factors such as air movement and relative humidity.’

http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/temperature.htm

Hi
This is not a grey area at all!!!!
You work in a shop and the temperature should be 16 degrees. 13 only applies in situations where manual labour takes place which is active enough to keep you warm(er).
HSE dont enforce health and safety legislation in shops-you need to contact your local environmental health department who should take action on your behalf.
This can include service of enforcement notices and even prosecution if the employer doesn't play ball.
A colleague of mine is doing this for a shop temperature of about 13 degrees.
I would tell my boss that if he doesnt sort it you will take it further,
Cheers
Steve

Spev,my idea about buying your own heater was to shock your boss into buying one,if you supplied your own heater, you would have to get it checked by a qualifed electrician,and be checked every year as should every other electrical appliance.

Being cold affects your concentration,and being cold inside seems worse than being cold outside,as i used to work outside a lot.

Ask him a ain and if he refuses point blank, then go to your local council environmental health dept, they are responsible for shop safety

cheers Project, i understand what you meant about the heater( I did take my own oil filled radiator in but it didnt do much)
To be honest if a local inspector came they would shut the shop on the spot thus putting me out of a job so its a tricky area. I will push for a heater and some clothing tommorow and see what happens.
I wonder If I would be due compensation if the local enviro office shut us down?(I mean comp from the employer)
cheers all

They don't tend to shut shops, they want to work with the owners to get the conditions correct. Its a matter of working together with the local inspector to get things sorted out.

Put another jumper on and MTFU?

here we go sorry if this offends but

MTFU

It is winter time perhaps you need a office job in reality

I'd love to MTFU but wearing full leg and body thermals two long sleeve shirts and a thick jumper over the top gloves and a hat tends to
a.look a bit odd to customers
b.still doesnt keep me warm
c.and is entirely besides the point

as it stands i've already suffered chillblains on my toes and I now have the hands of a 90 year old
so forgive be for this but how about STFU 🙂

edit:- also I didnt realise the job market was so good for people to change jobs to follow the seasons

Ha, you poor sole try working outside in the F*** snow and rain for 12 hrs a day.

Couple of the boys up there have it. Tell your boss to sort it or you will get it sorted report to the council- or buy a couple of cheap electric heaters.

Ah I wondered when the " theres people far worse off than you" post would appear. I choose to work indoors as its usually warmer, you choose to work outdoors where it usually is'nt, we make our choices just for me indoors is colder than out and the boss is shirking his duties, I hope your boss is more sympathetic ( what do you do out of interest?)
I've worked in these conditions since 2008 as the boss has promised that we will be moving to new premises.
I suppose I asked for it asking advice from the STW collective, generally helpful but one or two just cant resist flippant comments that do nothing to further the subject under discussion.

Cheers TJ, i'm pushing for him to get heaters tommorow, cant afford to buy them myself (and why should I- If I gave you a list of the other problems the shop has from a safety perspective you'd be amazed)

Take a look in the sealey flyers. Those paraffin blower heaters are cheap to run and do a decent job.

Work place temperature is an ACOP not written into health and safety law… it only states reasonable

Don't take your own electrical appliances in as they wont have been PAT tested

the Local EHO is unlikely to do anything about it TBH

http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/thermal/workers.htm

http://www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/issuesandrisks.htm

andy, nothing electrical has been PAT tested in our place since I started over 2 years ago (one of the many problems I could report) the heaters are the tip of the iceberg (literally)
apart from getting him to buy heaters my first priority is to get the **** out and do something else as it just depresses me going into work

you could have a word with your local EHO sometimes they just to do a check of the local high street if they have got some decent information to go on its too cold wont usually cut it N PAT testing. lack of fire extinguishers/ First aid kit, lack of safety signs are some of their favourites so too are uneven floors (current HSE campaign slips trips and falls)

cheers andymonty
i'll see how it goes tommorow , if no joy then EHO is the next step