If the ops missus is that bad how did she pass in the first place? or is she really old and doddery?
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Advanced driving course
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Posted 4 months ago #
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I'm an IAM Observer for Bath Group.
The IAM Skill for Life course costs £139 and she would get as much instruction and practice as she'd need to get her up to test standard (My average is 12 drives of about 2 hrs each over a maximum 6 month period). Plus the book, the chance to attend classroom sessions looking at the theory / meet other drivers in the same boat etc.
The IAM is such incredible value because it is run as a charity, by volunteers who give up their time because we want to improve driving standards.
Contrary to what's been said we take people of all standards. That often includes people who drive like your wife does. Her faults are common and easy to address. Talk to her rather than buy it as a 'surprise' but you might be surprised how quickly everyone becomes receptive to what we teach.
Doing it as a couple is also a really good idea. Not as a 'competition' but again since you'll be able to encourage and support eachother.
Your local group:
Posted 4 months ago # -
Once you take away the worry of what a car is going to do, its no longer relevant on the day to day drive.
This in turn frees up the brains ability to process the road hazard information being presented, rather than worring about "What is the car going to do in this situation"Trackdays, skidpans etc are useful for a lot more than just "Going Fast"
Its also "Fun" which is easier to "Sell" rather than "Your driving scares me - you need some more tuition"I`m a believer in both the Vehicle dynamics approach, and the roadcraft stuff as well, Having done both, especially on a motorcycle, the roadcraft is easier to concentrate on when you have more confidence in the behavior of the vehicle.
You stop worrying about have I got grip/is the bike going to slide/stop/turn etc and just relax into reading the roadPosted 4 months ago # -
If the ops missus is that bad how did she pass in the first place? or is she really old and doddery?
Haha, she is 28. She's really not that bad, just a bit lacking in confidence which means she hesitates at the crucial moments, so rather than making her intentions clear to other road users she gets herself into dodgy situations. She also has some bad habits, like the gear changing thing.
AnalogueAndy sounds like he's making the most sense. I'll talk to her tonight and see what she'd fancy doing. I am a bit hesitant to send her back to a normal driving instructor who will make her potter about at 5mph in a fiesta with her hands at 10 to 2 - the IAM stuff sounds much more like what she needs.
Thanks all, some very amusing arguments
DavePosted 4 months ago # -
Skid pans... track days... seriously?
No experience with IAM because I live locally and my group was less than enthusiastic, which is why I went down the RoSPA route. Both are similar, so check both out and ask for a free driving assessment (IAM certainly do this, RoSPA might cost £5).
Then you can choose on the instructor as the course is largely the same. RoSPA you have to re-test every 3 years and they have a 3 tier pass standard rather than pass/fail that IAM do.
Posted 4 months ago # -
What sbout getting her to do the pass plus
Posted 4 months ago # -
I have had nothing to do with IAM, pass + or any of the other organisations mentioned. However I am an advanced police driver and had weeks and weeks of training and assessment. Whenever I give my wife any constructive feedback on her observation, planning, position, smoothness or progress she punches me in the goolies.
Hope this helps?
Posted 4 months ago # -
IAM is the route I would go. My son did the course straight after passing his test and was the youngest member at the time. He did it for two reasons. 1) He was travelling 30mls a day to work and still did not feel confident in his driving
2) For his D of E. . 14yrs on and he says it was the best thing he did.
Regards some of the above comments re car control I can assure you all my auto test and road rallying experiencedid not do me any good driving around the mad roadways in and around the Manchester/Bury area at the weekend
Posted 4 months ago # -
Trekster around here you need to rely heavily on your forsight of other drivers...that worse case move you think they may pull next...they do and constant lane changes with no gaps up Chester road...
Posted 4 months ago # -
Whenever I give my wife any constructive feedback on her observation, planning, position, smoothness or progress
At least you are able to do this. Some of us have to keep our eyes shut tight (and hands together tightly sown) for the whole journey.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I've got Surfmatt's phone no. somewhere......
Posted 4 months ago # -
I am led to believe that the advanced police driving in Scotland no longer includes skid pan training, due to the stability control systems on modern cars that can react so much quicker than the driver. I guess cadence braking used to be included until ABS became standard.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Hora, are you a driving god?
I suspect you are not, no matter what you might think about yourself, so please just stop making irrelevant suggestions.
Attitude plays a big part in driving well, not the ability to talk a good drive and fantasise about your extreme car control skills (or even mountain bike skills)on various internet forums.
IAM/Rospa are good organisations that aim to get people to a high standard of safety whilst making reasonable progress.
I did the IAM motorbike course (and a Corporate IAM driving course) and found it worthwhile, even if I was aware of much of the content beforehand. Being observed and tested is a useful experience in itself. Some people might be afraid of what they might hear.
By all means disagree with some of their dogma/mantras, but they teach a solid, safe method of driving -If not necessarily exciting, dynamic or particularly 'advanced' in the sense of extreme vehicle handling.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I have recently done some courses, Pass Plus, Drive and survive and a skid pan session. Despite being aimed at new drivers ( approx 2 years after passing) I think the pass plus would be ideal for her as it irons out bad habits and builds confidence.
Posted 4 months ago # -
For someone who isn't comfortable and flowing/smooth with the fundamentals of driving, and there are a lot of drivers who fit into that category, following a systematic approach (as per IAM/Rospa) can be a big help.
Skid control is very useful (look how many drivers were absolutely hopeless when it snowed during the past 2 winters), but better to first understand what gear/rpm you should be using and learn not to be a hazard on the road.
Racing lines, late braking left-foot-braking, heel-toe, hand-brake turns, drifting etc. are all great for people who are interested in driving and like to push it a bit, but not necessarily that useful for someone who doesn't really understand the basic mechanics of the car or have an awareness of what is going on around them.
I think the expression is: Learn to walk before you learn to run.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Where do you make your assumptions about people? Am I driving God? Mostly definitely not. Neither are you. Its an opinion and when did I talk about drifting, hand brake turns or heel and toe? You also completely missed my suggestions about refresher courses with a normal driving Instructor didn't you? Why do people have to go for Gold on qualifications when a refresher may well do?
Really, as with nbt earlier, sometimes people on STW get ahead of themselves after taking a few courses on a particular subject.
The basics of driving are driving. First and foremost. Confidence for a nervous or unsure driver plays a massive part. The OP mentioned hesitation.
If you don't like my opinion fine but who cares if you have been on a Corporate IAM course? Does that mean you can lecture and make assumptions? No.
Posted 4 months ago # -
hora, stop talking out of your arse will you?!? For the OP, the IAM route is probably the best route. And as I think you suggested, doing it together is a good idea. We'd probably all benefit a lot from something like this (apart from hora of course).
This thread is missing SurfMat. That is all.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Really, as with nbt earlier, sometimes people on STW get ahead of themselves after taking a few courses on a particular subject.
Hello Mr Pot, have you met Mr Kettle?
Where did I "get ahead of myself"?
The basics of driving are driving. First and foremost. Confidence for a nervous or unsure driver plays a massive part. The OP mentioned hesitation.
Correct. Where would a skid pan help with this? Your suggestion of a refresher was noted but was not in your first post, and would not be as cost effective as a RoSPA or IAM course
BTW I haven't been on a corporate IAM course. Does that mean I'm not allwed to say anything at all?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I am partly coming at this from the wrong angle. My angle is she knows all the basics, there is something underlining maybe. My comment on track day is wrong as it gives the wrong message. I mean refresher and skidpan - possibly to give back some confidence and remind her.
Good day. I don't think we should spend forever arguing. Its not good for us
Posted 4 months ago # -
hora - Member
Where do you make your assumptions about people?
Like quite a few people on here, I know you in real life...
Somebody was talking about track days and skid pans earlier. Somebody else made further references to track days.
I'm making no claims about my skills, but I do have experience of IAM, on 2 wheels and on 4, which you presumably don't.
IAM & Rospa are a good thing, and a starting point, if not the complete answer to everyone's motoring dreams.
Posted 4 months ago # -
My angle is she knows all the basics, there is something underlining maybe.
Knowing the mechanics of making a car move does not make you a driver. It's the roadcraft that needs to be worked on.
I don't think we should spend forever arguing. Its not good for us
And on that we can agree. We can even agree to disagree. Back to work for me
Posted 4 months ago # -
Like quite a few people on here, I know you in real life...
But your making an assumption on that. I've not seen you for going on 4yrs and even then it was on a few rides over the space of circa a year.
It'd be lovely to go on rides again though
And on that we can agree. We can even agree to disagree. Back to work for me
Agree.Posted 4 months ago # -
Like quite a few people on here, I know you in real life...
Hora Wrote:
But your making an assumption on that (?).
er, Yes...ps. We last met about 2 years ago (you turned up!) ...I remember it as you were wearing a Flecktarn camo German army jacket -for maximum outline distortion and maximum invisibility to drivers- to cycle on the main road into Manchester when it was wet, foggy and dark... Just saying like
Posted 4 months ago # -
Kinda blended in didn't I. That was the Christmas Market I think.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Maybe you need a Cycling Proficiency refresher?
Posted 4 months ago # -
BTW your (Pacific branded) TV is still going strong in the spare room.
Posted 4 months ago #
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