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6 year old attacked by dog.(pitbull)
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FlaperonFull Member
Collies are nippers – not excusing what they do, but they very rarely savage another animal. I’ve been bitten by a collie after I wound it up but never attacked by one. Pit bulls are bred to fight and kill.
donsimonFree MemberPit bulls are bred to fight and kill.
And fortunately there are very few around.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberPit bulls are bred to fight and kill… other dogs
Its what I dont get, if I wanted a protection dog, I’d have a GSD, even the most friendly and well trained ones you really wouldnt want to start pushing the owners around.
swollenFree MemberA lot of people are using dogs instead of knives.
I tried it and ended up with hair all over my toast.JunkyardFree MemberThere is a problem with some dogs and some owners but not all dogs and not all owners
I dont see why we would not wish to consider something appropriate and proportional to further reduce the risks of such occurrences
Muzzle dogs in public?
Separate areas for dogs only in public areas?
Licences?
Vet checks?
register of approved owners??
A N other suggestionI suspect there is something between shooting the owners and the “accident” view and we could perhaps do something appropriate.
anagallis_arvensisFull MemberI dont see why we would not wish to consider something appropriate and proportional to further reduce the risks of such occurrences
Enforce current laws I would suggest.
supertrampFree MemberKarinofnine – there should be a ‘like’ button for contributions like yours! Well said 😉
freeagentFree MemberAs a confirmed dog, and dog-owner hater I reckon the owners of these sort of dogs should be treated by the courts in the same way as if they’d taken a knife the kiddies face….
loumFree Membermonkeyboyjc – Member
i do beleive that dog licences should be brought back with mandatory chipping.gingerss – Member
You attach draconian penalties to unlicensed/unchipped dogs/owners. Random stop checks and some high profile cases to make examples of people…
Owner is ultimately responsible for their dogs actions, whether they are present or not. This would mean of a dog rips a childs face off, they are tried as if they had personally done it.I would add that it should be the owners responsibilty to demonstrate that their dog is not a dangerous breed (or crossbreed of one) to be registered.
The quotes above were mentioned on the first page and make total sense, especially if combined and funded through a license fee.
The technology for chipping must be more affordable now than when licenses were last required in ’87.
Responsible dog owners would not object to paying the fee if it could be demonstrated that removing dangerous breeds would make their dog-walks safer. Most dangerous dogs are vicious towards other dogs aswell as (or even more than) people, and it is responsible dog owners that would benefit most.supertrampFree MemberInterestingly, chipping and licensing (passports in this case) are now mandatory for horses, so it’s not an impossible task. All my animals are chipped, horses, goats, etc. – even the dog!
I have a feeling that on the whole responsibility and dog ownership are not two things that go together. In every public space I visit the amount of people who scoop-the-poop are outnumbered 10 to 1 by those who couldn’t give a sh*t.
It seems the good responsible dog owner is the exception rather than the rule and by this standard, the rarity of such horrendous attacks is testimony to the good nature of vast majority of dogs out there.
I appreciate the trauma of these attacks my niece was attacked at 10 years old by a Doberman in a local shop (the shop owners dog) over 200 stitches all in her scalp and head. She has never really got over the trauma and at 30 still has problems with it 🙁
donsimonFree MemberI would add that it should be the owners responsibilty to demonstrate that their dog is not a dangerous breed (or crossbreed of one) to be registered.
It doesn’t always work like that though, my last conversation with the authorities left me in no doubt that the decision would be what the officer believed to be the case rather than what documentation was shown to demonstrate they my Staffy was indeed a Staffy and that I ran the risk of her being denied entry into the country for being a dangerous dog.
Most dangerous dogs are vicious towards other dogs aswell as (or even more than) people,
You worked that out on your own, did you? 😉
I don’t think anyone would argue that a dangerous dog has no place in the home or on the street, the problem is when people try to provide a definition of what is dangerous.
I would argue that some opinions are actually more dangerous than any dog could be. 😛deadlydarcyFree MemberAs a confirmed dog, and dog-owner hater
Sorry, but…like…y’know…
😆
Is that all dogs and all owners?
KarinofnineFull MemberActually, I stand by my view that it’s an accident. And I’ll explain why I think that.
As Elaine Anne so rightly says, a dog is a dog. They think like dogs, people say “Oh old Bella, she’s been with us for 12 years now, she’s just like one of the family”. No, Bella is a dog.
Part of one’s job as a dog owner is to recognise that. One has to think pre-emptively on behalf of the dog and ensure appropriate behavioiur.
An accident is where you have made a mistake. You get in your car, and try to go round a corner at 60mph. When you are on your roof in the field, it is called an accident, what it is is an error in judgment.
This chap (and I am choosing to believe he did not set his dog onto the little girl) made an error in judgment. He believed that his dog (for whom he is responsible) would not bite. He made a mistake. I believe that is an accident.
That’s my point of view. Yours may well be different. That’s fine. We’re all headed in the same direction.
As an aside, I do wonder why people take dogs to places where there are children playing. I suppose the point of a ‘trophy’ dog is to show it off, and thus one would have to go to a well populated place.
FWIW, my dog is chipped and I scoop her poop.
TandemJeremyFree MemberAn accident is where there is no mistake. An accident just happens. If a mistake is made it is not an accident – someone is at fault.
donsimonFree MemberAn accident is where there is no mistake. An accident just happens. If a mistake is made it is not an accident – someone is at fault.
Out of interest TJ, what’s your view on this…..?
Actually I do agree on the accident thing, like 90% of car accident could have been avoided, 90% of cycling accidents are down to rider error, etc…wreckerFree MemberI would add that it should be the owners responsibilty to demonstrate that their dog is not a dangerous breed (or crossbreed of one) to be registered
What is a dangerous breed? Collies bite the most people, so it would be stupid if they weren’t categorised as one. Rottweilers because they look scary? Terriers because chavs seem to like them and we don’t like chavs? Alsatians because they are attack dogs?
It’s just ridiculous. Each dog is as much an individual as a person is, and unfortunately we cannot have an anti dickhead law preventing unsuitable people owning dogs. There is only one way to guarantee that nobody gets bitten is to ban all dogs.loumFree MemberYou worked that out on your own, did you?
Yes, sorry if its not peer reviewed evidence. On an open internet forum opinion and personal experience can be valid. IME I have only been bitten by dogs whilst walking my own. If a dog attacks mine, I will hit it or kick it until it f***s off. This is when I have been bitten.
I have faced down the same dog whilst waking without my dog and it has growled but turned and left. My experience has been that a dog that is already attacking, including other dogs, is a lot more difficult to control/scare off than before it starts attacking. I believe it to be an adrenaline/rage thing but have no scientific proof. Just 30 yrs of observation and experience owning dogs.I would argue that some opinions are actually more dangerous than any dog could be.
Even though you desparately try to demonstrate this, I would still disagree. I feel a lot less likely to have my face ripped off by this internet forum than a dangerous dog.
As regards the Staffy situation, sorry, maybe I did phrase it wrong.
It should be the owners responsibility to provide evidence/documentation in order to be considered for a chip and license.
If the authorities, with their experience and training still don’t believe the dog to be safe, then so be it. At the end of the day, its only a dog and people’s safety is more important.KarinofnineFull MemberSorry, TJ, I disagree. Accidents/mistakes – all mixed up. Most accidents are the result of a mistake.
You usually make very good arguments from sound bases (even though I sometimes disagree with you), but you go way off when you get onto dogs.
I know you are frightened of dogs, don’t let that cloud your (usually clear) thinking.
donsimonFree MemberMy Staffy was chipped and still the decision was down to the border staff dog expert. 😥
TandemJeremyFree Memberfor the 900th time – I am not frightened of dogs. I dislike them.
If someone has made a mistake it is negligent – accidents are where there is no mistake / fault. Have a look in a dictionary.
Its teh dog owners that go way off trying to escape their obligations duties and responsibilities
Collins dictionary
accident
n
1. an unforeseen event or one without an apparent cause
2. anything that occurs unintentionally or by chance; chance; fortuneJunkyardFree MemberHe made a mistake. I believe that is an accident.
he did not bite her the dog did and when it did it it did it on purpose and repeatedly. An accident would be a dog nipping someone excitedly , snapping at food, bumping someone over but not savaging you so you need plastic surgery and you can carry your ear home in a pocket.
Its like me turning a corner and bumping in to someone and banging heads or me turning a corner and then beating the same person senseless with 15 blows. There is no equivalence; they are not both accidents, though, they may both be unpredicted.I am not joining in the dog hating thing, like i say there are some bad dogs some bad owners and no golden rule
EDIT: On balance you can probably get it under definition 1 above as unforseen but I do no think it is appropriate to call it an accident.
I suppose you could just about scrape my corner incident in [ it would be a weaker argument than yours] as an accident under unforseen/without apparent causeloumFree MemberWhat is a dangerous breed?
You make a lot of good points there wrecker, particullarly about the different breeds. I must admit I can’t answer them all myself right now, but am fully convinced that chipping and licensing is the way forward, and it needs to consider all your concerns to make it work.
Possibilities I see include licensing owners to be able to keep dogs, chipping and licensing the dogs themselves as acceptable to keep, and possibly a two tier system with different costs and regulations for working dogs. This could include a reduced fee, for example, for a neccesary work dog such as a working collie but with a restriction on off lead exercise in public parks.wreckerFree MemberAs an owner of a dog likely to be considered by the ignorant as a dangerous breed, I absolutely agree that ALL dogs should be licensed and chipped. When I got mine from the RSPCA, he was chipped, neutered, I had interviews and home visits before I was allowed to “adopt”.
There is already a dangerous dogs act; pit bulls are illegal. It needn’t go any further with regards to identifying particular breeds.KarinofnineFull MemberUnforeseen event = one’s dog biting or repeatedly biting a child = accident.
Yes, the dog bit her (repeatedly), but on purpose? you are attributing human qualities to a dog. Do you see what I mean? The dog isn’t a human, it’s reacting, not proacting.
So TJ, you dislike dogs, then don’t let that cloud your usually fine reasoning. I’m afraid lots of people do like dogs so dogs are here to stay.
Anyhoo, we will have to agree to disagree, I’m off to practice scales and then bed. Good night all.
loumFree MemberDon Simon
I believe that what you have done in having your dog chipped and registered should count in its favour more strongly. By having it chipped, you can now show that it has a “good record” and this should have been considered in your/its favor.
It is irresponsible dog owners that should have problems with licensing, not people such as yourself, but the system probably needs more investment to allow easier detirmination of who those people are.stevewhyteFree MemberWow all this from such a silly thread, and just look at who are posting the most.
donsimonFree Memberloum, she was coming from outside the UK and ALL Spanish dogs are/should be chipped.
I was aware of the UK position as discussed it with, I can’t remember which, an agency and the response was suck it and see…. It won’t hold me back from having another Staffy.JunkyardFree MemberUnforeseen event = one’s person repeatedly hiting another for no reason = accident
Just as plausible as your account but flawed for what I would think were fairly obvious reasons.
you are attributing human qualities to a dog. Do you see what I mean? The dog isn’t a human, it’s reacting, not proacting.
i am miles away form anthropomorphising.
I dont think we need to debate the fact the dog is not human but to claim it is reacting is , to some degree, blaming the child as the dog reacted to her…I find that quite offensive tbh.AndyFull Memberdon simon – Member
My Staffy was chipped and still the decision was down to the border staff dog expert.
So were you not allowed to bring Kala back to the UK then DS?
donsimonFree MemberIt was a bit complicated in that I was allowed due to pet passports and all that to bring her, the problem was the dangerous dog act and possible refusal of entry. That I didn’t feel confident about and taking the chance wasn’t really an option, so she gets the sunshine and siesta, I get rain and attitude… I know who got the short straw…
AndyFull Memberso she gets the sunshine and siesta, I get rain and attitude
😆
Tough call to make though – well done!
donsimonFree MemberI think she’s better off there, she doesn’t speak a word of English. 😕
Thanks for asking about her. 😀PoopsiesFree MemberJust for interest – when we moved to NZ we had to get our dog registered and she has to wear a tag all the time she is out in public. Not sure if this is the practice across all of NZ bit it is in Auckland.
There are dog attacks literally on a weekly basis here, mostly on children:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/dog20attack/search/results.cfm?kw1=dog%20attack&kw2=&st=gsa
Also, there has just been the first successful prosecution of someone using his dog to attack people:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10779325
There is a lot of cross-breeding for pig-hunting dogs which are usually large, strong and come from breeds with powerful jaws. A lot of them end up being taken and given away by the SPCA due to the conditions they are kept in. I’d take one myself if I could but it’s not practical.
i think it’s fair to say that the prospect of being attacked by one of those types of dogs is a lot more alarming than being attacked by a schnauzer or something but equally if they were cared for properly, looked after properly and taken in public appropriately then there would be much less of an issue. The combination of bad owners and powerful dogs is dangerous.
Doesn’t answer any questions but hopefully it gives some other info on some of the issues raised on here re registration, weapons etc.
richcFree Memberaccident legal definition
Listen See in a sentencenoun
An unintended, unforeseen, and undesirable event, especially one that causes harm, injury, damage, or loss.
An unintended and unexpected event, especially one that is undesirable or harmful, that does not occur in the usual course of events under the circumstances in which it occurred, or that would not be reasonably anticipated.
In equity, an unexpected and injurious event not caused by misconduct, mistake, or negligence.
In many automobile insurance policies, any unintentional event including those caused by misconduct, mistake, or negligence.Sounds like an accident to me, well according the the UK legal definition, obviously not according to TJ Law
hunterstFree MemberWhen i am king there will be 2 new rules
1. Every dog must be muzzled in public
2. Anyone allowing their dog to foul any public space and not cleaning it up will be fined £5000.richcFree MemberSee if you can borrow some of TJ’s drugs, then you may’be able to live in TJ’s world and get your wish*
* As long as you don’t wear a helmet!
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