Up next in 10
Fresh Goods Friday - Affordable is the topic. What is affordable and what is not?
May 9, 2025
New shock upgrade gizmos from RockShox and what does 'affordable' mean?
Gosh it’s hard not to talk about the weather. But we won’t. Instead we’ll simply spray some product at your eyes. Fresh Goods y’all!
But yeah, how about this dry spell we’re having eh?
As always there's all the details and more in our Fresh Goods Friday story here https://singletrackworld.com/2025/05/fresh-goods-friday-756-the-end-of-lonely-street-edition/
This week's episode is sponsorted by Join.cc the personal trainer that fits in your pocket.
It's an app and Singletrack listeners can try it for free for 30 days by visiting..
https://join.cc/singletrack
Show More Show Less View Video Transcript
0:00
Hello, welcome to this week's Single Track World podcast. I'm Hannah Dobson, Managing
0:25
editor and next to me we have the very nervous i'm terrified benjamin howarth technical editor
0:31
you're very jumpy too much coffee well yeah a lot of caffeine a lot of noises from upstairs
0:36
but real not like my mind they don't help either but yeah yeah episode i don't know what episode
0:46
we don't keep count 13 14 14 as long as keeping count yeah it wasn't me okay well this week
0:54
INT news. We have some racing news. It's kind of hotting up
1:00
The season is kicking off. So... Gravity racing. Last weekend we had
1:06
Fort William racing as part of the IXS World... No. No, not World Cup
1:14
IXS... Downhill European Cup. Round two. European Cup. Okay. And then there's going to be
1:20
some Fort William racing this weekend. Correct. And that's part of the UK National Downhill Series
1:28
Yep. And then they're going to go back to Fort William in July
1:33
And they're going to have to get in the Novas and drive to Bielsk-balama. Oh, yeah
1:37
So that's World Series. Next weekend's World Series. Series time. Okay. And then they're going to go back to Fort William again in July for the UK Downhill Nationals
1:49
Yep. National Championships. There's quite a lot of trips to Fort William. Yeah. None of them for the World Series though
1:54
Well, they're making up for it. So, last weekend, IXS. Who won
2:02
I only know the elite results. Sorry for the smallies and the..
2:06
Whatever the else region... I don't know. Intermediates. But the elites were won by Hattie
2:13
I always get her name wrong. Is it Harnden? Harnden. Yes. And Charlie Atten
2:20
And what is notable? about their bikes? They didn't have metal chains or divailleurs. Oh, you've been all
2:31
Francaise. They had belt gates, belt drive gearbox is the word I was looking for. And
2:38
what bikes are they on? Are they both on the same bike? No, Atti is on an Aeon Racing
2:45
which will be a gamux. Oh yes. With a Dorado. And Charlie Hatton
2:52
What was that motion? I was pulling a rope like 90s Usher. I should have a white vest on really
2:58
Okay. And one of those funny bandanas. This is a reference that is lost on me. Bandanas
3:03
Okay. R&B. And Charlie Hatton was on an Ableton. Okay. Which means that
3:09
G200 is that what they call it? We've got two riders there with
3:13
belt drives. Correct. On different bikes. Yep. Winning stuff. Who are then probably
3:22
going to go on to World Series downhill stuff and challenge potentially
3:28
for the belted purse. The belted purse is zipping open. Apparently. Maybe
3:35
They won. There were also others on Gates belt drive bikes. Okay. Breeden
3:41
And Intense. and main man, Rhys, Rhys Wilson. Was on the gamut as well
3:50
And he's A on racing as well, isn't he? Yeah. He probably was hoping to claim the win
3:55
but I think Fort William, it's interesting that Gate's drive belts won
4:00
but it was a bit of a weather, ridiculous lottery of nearly cancelled gale force wins
4:06
Oh, was it? It's a little bit asterisked, that result. Right. At least they won
4:10
so Hattie was national downhill champion last year as well but I don't think she particularly bothered
4:19
the podium at World Series level did she? Not in a consistent
4:23
fashion in the night. Wasn't she more doing the enduros? Well this year
4:27
there basically is no enduros. Well actually that's not true there is some enduro because it's happening this weekend somewhere
4:32
and there's one happening at the same weekend as the Polish downhill as well so
4:37
as ever no one really knows anything about Enduro. Somebody does some, it's not us
4:47
Okay, so do you have a bet or a prediction for who's going to win the belted purse
4:59
I don't think, regardless of belts, I did think that Rhys Wilson would win
5:09
a race this coming year okay there's everything behind it he can only want it more than ever
5:19
especially the belt, that would be nice but he's coming off the
5:23
turbulent times at Trek and all kinds of funny not that Trek did anything wrong but he's had illnesses
5:32
and other problems with focusing. Mental health problems. I don't really know
5:41
I don't speak from his behalf, but he's been a bit doldrummed. He had some bad concussions as well, I think
5:46
So, yeah, he's had a bunch of time off the bike. After winning the world champs in
5:52
was that 2020 or 2021 or something? It's a funny year in itself. So, yeah, he's coming back and doing his own team
5:59
So we have Aeon Racing all-arm belts. increasing their chances of winning the belted purse which is how much money is
6:06
the belted purse a hundred thousand US dollars so it's worth winning oh I wonder
6:13
does that go to the rider or to the team hmm it will depend on I don't know
6:19
contract maybe I don't know okay so Aeon is all on the belts yeah how about the
6:27
intense racing with Joe Bruden is that a bit of a mix they can pick and mix much
6:31
like Atherton's. Right yeah and then the Atherton's have got a mix as well and presumably they could
6:37
choose different bikes for different courses as well. Yeah. So and is there anybody else on
6:44
belted bikes? There's bound to be but I can't there'll be some people who used to be on Gammux
6:49
who were like not second division but like a non top tier team they'll probably still be on
6:55
gamut machines. And what about frameworks? Have they got a belted one option
7:03
I'm not sure if I've seen one or not. I don't think they'll be racing on it if they have
7:08
But they'll be racing. Oh, yeah. They've signed Ace of the Met for the next
7:12
three years. Yeah. Yeah. Very exciting stuff. Anyway, we are now veering off
7:18
Which I assume is a view to having whoever's going to be Ace's main
7:24
elite sponsor having to buy out his contract for Mucho Dolarini. Do you think? Yeah
7:30
Oh, you're such a cynic. I think he's just having a good time. I think he's a very good mood by Mr Mullally and Acer
7:34
Oh, absolutely, yeah. You know what the only way we going to get loads of money is by selling Acer effectively Well I looking forward to watching Acer and the belted purse stuff I think that going to be exciting
7:49
Yeah. Right. Let us take an ad break before we go on to the next topic of discussion
8:00
So the sponsor of this episode is Join.cc. Yes, I've heard of them
8:05
Yeah, you've heard of them. But they're a training app specifically designed for cyclists
8:11
Join is an app that takes whatever level of fitness you're at and whatever goal you want to achieve to work out a training plan to get there
8:18
You tell it how much time you can spare, and it will do the rest
8:22
Well, it won't actually do the work. That's on you. But it's like having a personal trainer in your pocket
8:27
It takes everything into account, like your age, your fitness levels, what kind of riding you prefer to do
8:32
and for me, it even incorporates off-bike training. There's a bunch of material available in the app
8:38
and I read a great article on weight training for those of us at a certain age range
8:42
I had no idea that as you get older, you benefit more from weight training to maintain fitness
8:47
So that's now part of my training. Okay. Did you know that
8:52
No. Now we should be picking stuff up and putting it down again, apparently at our age. I do like quite a lot, but it's only small items
8:58
such as remote controls. so join also connects to all your other apps yeah so it joins to strava it joins to garmin
9:05
it joins to all the sort of built-in stuff if you've got an apple watch it's got the fitness
9:10
stuff pulls all that data in so it takes all your normal riding data and it uses that to help guide
9:16
you towards your goal join is free to download and sign up and the best features are part of
9:23
their subscription and you can try it for free for 30 days by heading to join.cc forward slash
9:29
single track okay so this week i got some stick from people on the internet those guys i know that
9:42
happens fairly frequently but uh i put up a headline that said that a bike was an affordable
9:50
uk made frame this was births rat bike btr but it's not btr it's like sister brand of btr rat bikes
10:02
and so this is over my head but bikes that birth from btr it will make but he will make them in
10:11
batches um in order to make them more affordable um and also in order to make them at a price that
10:19
he he can charge a more affordable price but he will also earn enough money to stay alive
10:27
because like the gases that he's not even getting paid minimum wage the time it may
10:32
takes to make because they're so complicated so these rat bikes are kind of the one that he's got
10:39
at the moment is the sort of do it all kind of like a hybrid but you could do the school run on
10:44
it you could go for a little cheeky ride in the woods on it you could go to the shops mow it up
10:49
with panniers whatever and he's designed it to be easy to build easy to make so the rear end
11:00
triangle stays the same across all the bikes so you can set up a jig and chop chop chop stick them
11:06
together um you won't get choices about where you have your bosses okay your paint and colors and
11:14
And that sort of stuff is like, this is it. But it looks really elegant all the same for all that it's designed around
11:22
how to build in a really functional way. And I called it an affordable UK-made frame
11:33
And somebody was like, £650 for the frame. And people were like, you lost your mind
11:38
That's not affordable. And then we have the Sonder Falco, which is a whole bike from Sonder, hardtail, that starts at £999
11:52
Correct. And again, I think I probably call that affordable. But they are different levels of affordable and different levels of perhaps value
12:04
and so yes I thought we should discuss what does what does affordable mean what does value mean
12:11
so what would you say on this topic Benji gosh um oh I don't know do you know what I'm just like I don't think there's much value in
12:26
anything made and just don't know I don't know why you would
12:30
650 quid for a did you get the fork no so 650 quid for a frame
12:40
um it's not going to build into a very affordable bike okay so i don't think you can i don't
12:53
you don't think you can call it affordable i don't know i don't it's just not the if you
13:02
i don't think you can go for a value proposition unless it's unless it's actually cheap maybe
13:09
i was thinking of affordable as in and as in cheap okay so you've got to have things that
13:19
are sustainable and if you place value on something that was made in the UK and is keeping
13:30
somebody's roof over their head and that sort of thing then 650 quid for the frame is like that's
13:39
what it costs in the UK and he's done but it's not going to get rich by that he's just paying
13:45
himself a wage for what is he's very skilled at what he does and it's um a fairly you know it's
13:52
a kind of a unique design that he's come up with um and so maybe that has value and so
14:02
yeah does it's a it is affordable because you can afford it basically it's not four figures
14:11
and it feels a bit like a 500 quid frame from I don't know 15 20 years ago that sounds about right
14:20
but I just I think it um I don't know if I would always come at it from
14:29
a boringly technical point of view like does it ride any different than something that's 200 quid
14:36
from taiwan well i haven't written it so i don't know no i have heard people say that it is nice
14:44
and there is something about a bike with soul like you you you can like a bike more somehow when it
14:53
maybe means something to you yeah um and liking a bike makes you want to get on it and ride it
15:01
and have more fun on it, I think. And I guess when we're reviewing things
15:07
we're much more dispassionate and disconnected from that source. Yeah well it like keeping Berfin paying his bills or something I don think that the argument really because people just just like i would say well i by buying a sonder i keeping an entire family of vietnamese alive or something
15:33
like that it's still still people yeah but it's more about you should probably buy something that's
15:37
uk made not for the uh initial guy getting some money it'll be about paying into the pot of
15:46
general taxation, thinking of the bigger picture of society, thinking about other younger people
15:54
who might want to start in fabrication of things like that. I just think you need to make the argument
15:58
in a bigger picture rather than saying Berth gets money. I don't care about Berth
16:03
He's not more important than someone who's in Taiwan. But you might want to think
16:07
your country, whatever, if you want to keep it going, you need people producing stuff
16:13
I think there is a strong argument for skills retention and not just being a service economy
16:23
Like, yeah, and so that's what it costs to build a frame in the UK
16:28
and to retain those skills. And visually, it would be the other argument for it
16:35
because it's going to look like a fairly straight, fairly skinny steel frame
16:40
that just isn't produced anywhere, is it? So if that's the vibe aesthetically or ride-wise you want
16:47
I don't think you'd probably get one much less than 650. Could have you got it from
16:52
You're going to get some gas pipe chromo chunker, which is all right for the BMX
16:59
but it's quite risk-breaking if you take them off-road. So, yes. perhaps affordable
17:09
and affordability and value and sustainability are sort of all linked and it's about
17:17
what you've like the money that you've got in your pocket and where you can
17:23
afford to place that money and yeah fair enough if you want your potholes fixing
17:30
if you want your children educating if you want to not pay for the NHS
17:34
point of use, then you have to, you don't have to, but you can't complain about things
17:41
being made in the UK costing more. You can't complain about both
17:47
Oh, right. Okay. But that's not to say that companies that get things made abroad aren't
17:52
also contributing to like UK tax base. They are, just in a different way. But yes, there
18:00
is something about there is something about skills retention and the sort of if everything
18:07
got unplugged like would anyone know how to actually do anything and there's a lot of us
18:15
that wouldn't have any useful purpose in society but a welder certainly yeah it's always going to be
18:23
kind of a useful skill so yes well it used to be like i mean you should get your kids like learn
18:29
coding oh that was a waste of time wasn't it because no humans need to code ever again yes
18:35
and what a total dead end that was whereas what you should have got them to do is be a plumber
18:40
plumbing yes i was gonna say that's exactly what my daughter's boyfriend just thinking you can't
18:44
outsource like like complaining about where i live new houses and things and wind turbines going up
18:51
so you've got to do something in your own country or you won't have any jobs so you can't you can't
18:59
to wherever is building houses. People have actually got to do it where you are
19:07
So, yeah, I don't know how quiet we got from affordable buyers to building houses on the green belt
19:11
It's all part of the same thing, isn't it? On the green belt, but yeah. Have we moved into a different podcast room by mistake? Yes
19:17
We're now like today in politics. That's right. Okay. Usually dressed that way, doesn't it, after a while
19:24
Maybe we ought to put an ad break in here before we go on to our next thing
19:29
No idea what that ad was for. No, it was a good one
19:33
Yeah. I really hope it was something really inappropriate. How to invest in offshore funds
19:41
Is that what it's called? Temu? Okay. Now then. Wish. Sort of, sort of, I can't
19:51
Stop it. You're going to mess with everyone's algorithms and then they'll all have adverts for weird things popping up
19:58
Yeah okay. You have a weird thing there do you not? This thing? Yes. It's just hard to explain
20:08
Especially for those that are listening. Go on take it out the bag. Which bag? For the rustling
20:15
I'm not going to take all that because that's just irrelevant. Well no that that thing that you've just put back in there, that spring thing, I mean this is like a sort of double helix spring
20:27
It's a countermeasure spring, RockShox. The product, if you want to Google it while you're driving along, don't
20:35
is a RockShox AM Upgrade Kit Linear XL. Okay. £99 SRP
20:45
So in my hands, I have what looks like two springs joined together
20:52
in some really complicated double helix DNA style. A slinky mixed with an after 8 wrapper box
21:01
Yeah, I don't know. Or a really complicated toast rack. Yeah. But it's very small
21:09
It fits in the palm of my hand. Okay. So this thing, I mean, what we do have here is it looks like some kind of arms to a rack scandal
21:18
Because now you have a metal sleeve that looks a little bit like the outside of a photo lens
21:25
yep and this spring and that sleeve go together somehow what do they do oh god that's why we don't
21:35
want to get the spring out i said don't get that out but it looks really it's a top out spring
21:40
so when your rear shock on the full suspension bike air sprung rear shock when it extends to
21:47
full length it will stop it making a little metal on metal noise it's like a little cushy bit okay
21:55
And what does the metal tube case thing do? Gives you extra volume, not in your hair, extra volume in your rear shock
22:06
extra air space in both the positive and the negative chambers. And so how do you fit this thing
22:14
Does it go... You let all the air out first, if you're an existing one
22:19
Out of shock? Yep, and then you put a little rag through the end of the shock eyelet
22:26
So if you don't put that on and you're unscrewing the existing one on your air sleeve
22:32
it fires at you and it goes past the point and it usually takes a load of skin off your thumb
22:39
Are you speaking from experience? Okay. Or it goes, bam! Those horrible injuries that don't cut, but just everything's like blood blisters and things like that
22:50
So it's for the Calibre Boss Knot, OK, mountain bike of the year 2024 AD CE
22:58
And it's being put on a fast forward upgrade path under my tutelage
23:04
OK so is this metal tube is this in some way different to the metal tube that you will be replacing Yes
23:15
What is different about it? It's got a bulge there. At the bottom end
23:20
And a bulge there. And a bulge at the top end. So it's got two bulges. It's a wider positive chamber and a wider negative chamber
23:25
The negative is where it kind of sits at sag point when you get on the bike
23:29
Okay. So it should make that a lot more eager to move, breakaway force, I think we called it
23:38
Okay. So it shouldn't feel as meniskey when it starts. Benji's now twitching beside me on the sofa for those
23:45
And the larger volume is probably of less interest to me personally, but you get it whether you like it or not
23:52
But it's useful for heavier riders or more aggressive riders or people jumping off frigging cliffs, riders
23:58
Okay. You need to not be blasting through the travel and banging, bottoming out too much
24:06
It gives you more control at the end. So this tube has bulges in it
24:12
Does the tube that you'll be taking off have any bulges in it or is it straight
24:17
It probably has a very slight, like, millimetre bigger. Okay. And it's slightly tapered, I seem to recall
24:24
So it's not a piggyback shock. It's a normal inline air shock. and I felt like I'd like to upgrade this
24:30
but I don't really think I should be throwing a new rear shock at this bike
24:36
I feel like... I think it should be done. That'll be better than buying a new shock
24:42
So this is going to change the behaviour of the shock that you've got
24:47
Of the air spring. Without buying a whole new shock. And it costs how much
24:54
Full retail, £99. OK. I bet you can get them for less than that
25:00
So that is quite a lot less than a whole new shock. Yeah, because this will give you basically the full-on fancier air spring
25:08
like a debonair air spring. It's going on a RockShox Select Plus
25:14
Okay, which is fairly low down the RockShox hierarchy of shocks, isn't it
25:19
Yeah. So you're sort of morphing a cheaper shock into a kind of more expensive shock
25:25
shock for £100. Correct. Yeah. Okay. You do have to know a little bit what you're doing with a rear shock
25:35
but they're not that hard. In terms of fiddling and... Yeah, vice
25:42
Rubber gloves are helpful for gripping all of them when they've got a bit oily. A towel on the floor
25:48
Just... Is that for your tears and your blood? Just for drips of anything
25:55
Yeah Dynamic seal grease is in there Stroke limiters
26:06
Those are stroke limiters. So this sleeve will work on a Rear shock that either moves 55 mil stroke or 40 all the way down to 47.5
26:18
I don't need any of those because mine's a full 55 mil stroke. Those are volume spacer bands, whatever you call them. Bottleness tokens
26:24
okay boring black yes they can tune an awful lot more so you can put volume
26:32
spaces in the negative bit as well so there's a load of tuning to be done if
26:37
you want to okay and is this the only thing that you are doing to this caliber
26:41
boss nut oh gosh no there's low that's that's probably the thing that the last
26:48
thing that actually needs doing. Needs. Needs. I wouldn't do it as fast as I've
26:56
done it because I basically replace something every week but it's like, oh yeah, fine
27:02
So wheels have gone on, longer droppers gone in, new forks gone on because you
27:14
couldn't upgrade the fork it comes with that was a learning curve
27:19
Oh so there isn't a sort of fork version of this? No the uh I think it's a 32mm
27:25
it's not a Rockshox that's based on a 35mm stanchion chassis. If you got one of
27:32
them no matter how cheap it is you can go to town we're getting all kinds of stuff you can put in it. You can make that really full-on ultimate level Rockshox
27:40
but the revelation that the boss nut comes with just yeah can't do that with it okay brakes have
27:47
not changed yet it's doing all right might change why not but i think that's that's probably it
27:53
and i'd say of all of those changes um the fork and the rear shock i think will be the main ones
28:04
to do the rest of them are all right okay or you replace when you break you know i mean yeah like
28:09
i'd like any bigger cassette on the back it's on an hg3 hub and it's only 10 speed but eventually
28:16
one is going to wear out the cassette so you just change it then you get sunrace that will be
28:21
the cheapest way of getting a 10 speed with a 50 tooth sprocket on cool i remember when they came
28:29
out and and everyone was like oh my god this is incredible and now it's kind of a norm yeah yeah
28:36
yeah it's great great bikes magnificent machine right and indeed falls into that category of
28:45
affordable we think it's one of the lower priced just about yeah full suspension bikes out there
28:51
it is particularly if you get them in stock and you're one of their card holders is it oh yeah
28:57
Yeah, the members discount thing, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, full whack is 1,700 quid
29:02
Okay. Well, I think that's enough waffle for this week. Next week is likely to be a bit ranty, I think
29:10
because what have you been working on? More drop bar hatred. Not really, it's bafflement
29:21
Bafflement. I'm trying to detune the typingness to be less strident and a bit more latched
29:36
Okay, and then I have been working on a piece around British cycling, which I'm also trying to
29:46
to make sound less strident, quite difficult about what they are or are not doing for gravity mountain biking
29:55
in particular and cycling generally and how they just absorb all of the funds
30:03
for cycling as leisure in the UK. Like some giant black hole of doom
30:12
So yes, you can look forward to next week's totally impartial podcast
30:18
where we have finally ironed our thoughts out and can articulate them
30:23
as coherently as we have done today. All right. Enjoy. Yeah, we'll work on that
30:31
Thanks for being here this week. See you next week. Bye. Laters
30:36
Kids say that they say anything. It's coherent
#Extreme Sports
#Cycling
#Climbing & Mountaineering