Reflecting on the paracetamol thread and he epiphanies had as to why silly old harmless paracetamol has restrictions on purchase. It turns out it was because of reasons and evidence and all that shit.

Post one thing that is like it is for a reason that you know

and

One thing that is like it is for reasons you can’t fathom.

For starters. A reason
You don’t put a £1 in a shopping trolley to stop you from steeling it – its so you put it back where you found it (or somewhere the supermarket designates) rather than have abandoned trolleys blowing round the carpark (a la B&Q)

A can’t fathom

Pedestrian crossing lights (the red and green men) are changing from a light opposite the pavement that you can see while you’re crossing to one only on the button you press and which can’t be seen from any position apart from when you press the button – once crossing you can’t see the lights at all. This seems to be a backward step – if its a solution to a problems with the old style of lights I’m buggered if I can work it out.

Pedestrian crossing lights (the red and green men) are changing from a light opposite the pavement that you can see while you’re crossing to one only on the button you press and which can’t be seen from any position apart from when you press the button – once crossing you can’t see the lights at all. This seems to be a backward step – if its a solution to a problems with the old style of lights I’m buggered if I can work it out.

you should trying using the ones in australia..especially perth where there seems to be some kind of idea that 10 seconds is enough time to cross a massive dual carriageway?

if its a solution to a problems with the old style of lights I’m buggered if I can work it out.

I thought it was to prevent drivers getting angry at people crossing on the red man, it annoys me as I use the red man appearing to ‘get ready to pull away’

It could also be to reduce the wiring required and make maintenance easier.

You will (should) find that the newer pedestrian crossing lights face away from relevant drivers. I assume to make them wait until their green light comes on, bt look for your green man to disappear.

This seems to be a backward step – if its a solution to a problems with the old style of lights I’m buggered if I can work it out.

I was taught that it was to help the visually impaired who struggled to make out the lights over wider roads and to encourage pedestrians to monitor traffic rather than just stepping straight out when the lights change.

I thought it was to prevent drivers getting angry at people crossing on the red man, it annoys me as I use the red man appearing to ‘get ready to pull away’

I think discouraging your behaviour is part of it too. Encouraging people to make judgements based on other road users rather than relying on signals.

Why do I need to see them once I start crossing?

The lights thing is so you look in the direction of traffic before crossing. People put too much faith in the lights.

What Onzadog says.

I found out recently about those spinny knob things under the button/’wait’ light: so if its a loud road or too many crossings near each other which don’t all have green men at the same time, a blind person can ‘feel’ when its time to cross the road.

What i don’t understand is why if a pelican crossing hasn’t been used for minutes on end, it still takes up to a further minute to stop traffic. Often this is after the pedestrian has seen a suitable gap and crossed anyway, meaning the cars get held up for no one. There is just such a crossing on my way to work, which still has a delay of 40 seconds at 6am when the road and pavement are empty. At this time of day there is often traffic when you press the button but equally often you have found a massive gap and crossed by the time the lights change. I get that you need a minimum time interval between uses so traffic doesn’t get snarled up so much at heavily used crossings, but if a crossing has not ben used for several minutes, the traffic will have to stop at some point regardless of how long the pedestrian has to wait for it, in some instances you might as well stop traffic sooner and improve the pedestrian’s journey. I bet some people get annoyed at having to wait at an ’empty’ pelican crossing too.

I think discouraging your behaviour is part of it too. Encouraging people to make judgements based on other road users rather than relying on signals.

Maybe, but it seems like a slightly silly one. Green man->red man = put car in first and rest hand on handbrake as you’ll likely be moving soon is what I learned.

if a pelican crossing hasn’t been used for minutes on end, it still takes up to a further minute to stop traffic

Where live, all the crossings (or at least the ones I’m familiar with) go to amber instantly unless it’s been too soon since the last crossing. This is to give the drivers a chance if there are lots of peds, of course.

About 2.4 million years ago a small gene mutated in an ape. This gene regulated jaw muscle development, the underexpression of which led to weaker jaw muscles. The weaker jaw muscles in this line of apes enabled the brain case to expand (jaw muscles attach around the top of the head) and for finer motor movements of the jaw which allowed rudimentary noises to become speech. The development of speech and associated knowledge sharing and communication accelerated brain growth and enabled group working to improve survival chances, adapt to changing climates and dominate the animal kingdom leading eventually to the industrial and technical revolutions which have allowed us to discuss the cycling benefits of anal bleaching.

It’s not trees waving about that’s causing the wind.

The universe exists because it is being obsereved.

@Stevet1

has the debate on “shared space” been done yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4LZiWZvLfk remove all information and get back to sudden death! I like the concept and reports but haven’t seen enough implementation or follow up

Reflecting on the paracetamol thread and he epiphanies had as to why silly old harmless paracetamol has restrictions on purchase. It turns out it was because of reasons and evidence and all that shit.

This is a bit mean. I reversed my opinion that the law was moronic because I had assumed that if you were suicidal and wanted 60 pills you would find a way to get them. But it turns out that things are bit more sublte than that, and that someone on the edge would only need easy access to loads of pills to tip them over. A little knowledge goes a long way and I was happy to read that knowledge and publicly accept that my opinion was wrong. I think that is normal and healthy. There is no need to be so snidey about it. It is no wonder that people become so entrenched when faced with riducle for being open minded.

@Steve1

So good I just shared it on FB.

That high-five is my new all time favourite .gif, today.

wrong link? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vzDDMzq7d0

About 2.4 million years ago a small gene mutated in an ape

Might well have done, but Homo Habilis had been knocking about for nearly 1/2 million years at that point in human development.

you should trying using the ones in australia..especially perth where there seems to be some kind of idea that 10 seconds is enough time to cross a massive dual carriageway?

You may just have put your finger on the answer to our aging population overloading our finances! 😕

we were the only pedestrians around (2 of us brits huh) and thought it was just a faulty set of lights, turns out not the case. It was funny watching the school kids line up on their bikes like some kind of do or die maneuver ..or British bull dog. You could just about make it to the island in the middle but were then stranded as there was no #odding button!?

The lights thing is so you look in the direction of traffic before crossing.

Been in Mcr city centre this morning with my son who loves to press the button on crossings, Several of the crossings had buttons on the left and right hand side of the pavement so can’t see how the above works,if you press the LH button and are watching it for the green man your not going to see traffic approaching from the right?.

I’d imagine its more of a cost saving exercise as in using less components to create a working crossing.

This is a bit mean. I reversed my opinion that the law was moronic because I had assumed that if you were suicidal and wanted 60 pills you would find a way to get them. But it turns out that things are bit more sublte than that,

Sorry that wasn’t aimed at anyone – the paracetamol thread pops ups every sniffles season. What it highlights is that people don’t need to know why or how the system works for it to work. So thats why I’m interested in other behaviour influencing actions or designs that don’t need to educate people to succeed. I also think people changing their minds about something is an action people don’t get enough credit for.

The pedestrian crossing one got me curious because its not just a new design used where new crossings are implemented – there seems to be a fairly rapid process of retrofitting them at existing crossings -so cost saving doesn’t seem to be the incentive. It implies somethings wrong with the old type. At the same time I’m not aware that pedestrian crossings are especially flawed, dangerous places – or dangerous particularly because of the way pedestrians behave at them. So I wonder whether the changes are because of evidence of how pedestrians act (and the consequences) or just the idea that its ‘better’ for people to take their queue for decisions from elsewhere.

Why do I need to see them once I start crossing?

Don’t know if you need to, but traditionally you could and now that seems to be being pointedly withheld. Its reassuring when its there – in the same way as drivers saying seeing the green/red men changing allows them to pre-empt their lights changing as someone crossing knowing whether the pedestrian light is still red or green or flashing means you’ve an indication of what signals the traffic are getting. Then you know whether you have to deploy the ‘apology jog’ – the running motion that isn’t faster that walking but acknowledges that you’re holding everyone up.

The lights thing is so you look in the direction of traffic before crossing.

I’d wondered if had something about the button-pusher having to be looking in the direction of the traffic to see the light change – but I’ve certainly seen lights on one way systems that are counter to the traffic (in manchester too I think). But plenty of people might cross on the that light change, they’re not all the one that pressed the button and they might not have been there when the lights first changed. The old system gives people who are late to the scene an indication of whats going one while they’re cross which people don’t get anymore – you don’t get the equivalent of the amber light that traffic signals have.

Sorry that wasn’t aimed at anyone – the paracetamol thread pops ups every sniffles season. What it highlights is that people don’t need to know why or how the system works for it to work. So thats why I’m interested in other behaviour influencing actions or designs that don’t need to educate people to succeed. I also think people changing their minds about something is an action people don’t get enough credit for.

My apologies, being self centred/paranoid and thinking that it was aimed me. You make a good point.

This is a bit mean.

No, it’s really not.

Drac, we have sorted it out so bite me.. 👿

It’s piss ble your crossing in Manchester was designed before the new idea or specced by somewhere ne who isn’t aware. I was told it was to make people look at traffic by a senior signals engineer at a road safety audit meeting at a local authority so I’m pretty happy I’ve got the right answer.

Not sure if they’re a London-centric thing, but I’ve seen some sets of crossings which have a count-down timer, to show those crossing how much time they have until the lights start to change, which seems eminently sensible, as it helps avoid those people who step onto the crossing just as the green man starts to flash, hoping to make it across in time.
I rarely use the button on certain crossings in town, because I know the traffic tends to come in waves, due to other lights, usually giving me a big gap to stroll across the road without having to hold anyone up.

Drac, we have sorted it out so bite me..

😯

xxx

I think it’s the same logic as not putting traffic lights (for vehicles) on the far side of the junction. But I’m not sure it’s valid for pedestrians. The ideas with traffic lights is that you go into the junction on green, then if you want to turn right, etc, you do so when it’s safe based on what you can see, and don’t just assume it’s OK because you have a green light. But applied to pedestrians, you could end up stuck on the middle island with no button to press.

It might be, as suggested, just to stop drivers trying to anticipate the lights changing and intimidating slower pedestrians.

Washington DC had the countdown signals at all intersections.

Not sure if they’re a London-centric thing, but I’ve seen some sets of crossings which have a count-down timer, to show those crossing how much time they have until the lights start to change, which seems eminently sensible

Here theres a crossing that has the opposite – rather than countdown telling you how much longer the lights will stay green for its for how long they’ll stay on red – to stop people impatiently dodging through the traffic when the lights will turn green in a few seconds.

This thread just won.

It will beat the Tripster thread.

It will beat the photo thread that always pops up on the front page.

My contribution is….

Post one thing that is like it is for a reason that you know…. humanity.

One thing that is like it is for reasons you can’t fathom…… The Daily Mail.

One I do understand:
New pedestrian lights; once they are on green for pedestrians at the push-button they will stay that way until you’ve finished crossing. They have PIRs mounted above the traffic lights “looking” for pedestrians still on the crossing, and won’t (shouldn’t) change until you’ve crossed

One I don’t understand:
Why do multi-millionaires want to keep making money? Once I make my first million I’ll just stop working

Oh, I have a question.
Why are there separate switches for the front and rear fog lights on my car?
The main lights (front and rear) come on together with a single switch.
In what situation would I only want front OR rear fog lights?

Post one thing that is like it is for a reason that you know…. humanity.

One thing that is like it is for reasons you can’t fathom…… The Daily Mail.

Same thing for both: Humanity.

I think that many humans still get a primitive, heady fix from pack mentality/tribalism? Once we identify/scapegoat the ‘other’ we may then feel better about ourselves simply by looking down on others. This is the laziest route to self-fulfilment. A daily fix/confirmation:

A. ‘We’ are all that is right in the World, and
B. ‘They’ are all that is wrong*/vermin.

It also saves having to work too hard at thinking. Like instant coffee or a Big Mac. After a very short while convenience becomes dependence/reliability.

*See also the Guardian 😉

One I don’t understand:
Why do multi-millionaires want to keep making money? Once I make my first million I’ll just stop working

Because, once you’ve made your first million, you will realise that there are a great number of things that you can spend a million on – far more than a million’s worth of things. Boring stuff like school fees through to exciting stuff like bionic battle-leopards. It’s no easier to live within your means with a million pounds than it is to do so with $50,000.

🙂

In what situation would I only want front OR rear fog lights?

While you’re driving along in the fog by yourself you might want front and rear on, but once another car is behind you and you can see them you should generally turn your rear fog light off. And possibly vice versa for the fronts, although to be able to have the rear on with fronts off is not something I’ve seen before.