Hey Kieran

I was just drafting out a post to offer advice, you’ve confirmed some answers to questions I had for you.
I think you’re not eating enough. Although clearly if you keep not eating enough and keep exercising it’s inevitable that you will loose weight.

M

2 x shredded wheat with semi skimmed milk for breakfast
handful of grapes or a satsuma mid morning.
Sandwich made of 2 bits of wholemeal bread a thin sliver of low fat chilli mayo with two thin bits of ham and lettuce. an apple or banana and a low fat yoghurt (activia, shape etc)
large salad with a bit of grilled fish or chicken. No sauces but a little olive oil.

And you are 20 stone? I’d say you’re not eating enough.

Calculate your Basal Rate here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/tools/bmr-calculator

(I’m eating worse than you, exercising less, and losing weight)

I will agree my diet could still do with some work, but I still feel that I’m expending far more energy than I’m generally putting in.

It’s not quite that simple.

There are two main types of fuel you eat. Fat and carbs. Our diet is full of quickly absorbed carbs in general, and our bodies get very good at burning it and then telling you to eat more. This means they become not so good at burning fat. Now there’s also a large genetic variation in how good we are at burning fat, so some people don’t have a problem with eating lots of quickly absorbed (fast) carbs.

When you eat fast carbs your body produces insulin to keep your blood sugar stable. Insulin does loads of things, including making your body burn carbs and STOPPING it from burning fat.

So you eat some fast carbs, then go for a bike ride, you burn up all the carbs and get run down because your blood sugar/carb stores are low, this stimulates your appetite to want to eat more fast carbs and so on. Fat doens’t get used much, so we become bad at burning it.

You can train your body to burn fat better.

Fat in food slows down its absorbtion by your body (lowers the GI). The slower it is absorbed, the less insulin is required to maintain blood sugar, so you get less of the above effect.

So low fat food is actually pretty bad for losing weight. The only danger of fat is the amount of energy it contains, which is quite a lot. You’re better off eating less higher fat food. And of course I don’t mean cream cakes all the time, but a normal amount of fat in meat and so on is not a bad thing.

You do need carbs in your diet, but they should be from slow sources (low GI) like legumes and root veg (but not potatoes). If you are doing lots of exercise then you can introduce some fast carbs, but only at the right times. Insulin has benefits after you’ve done your training.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/why-eating-a-low-fat-diet_b_634011.html

More things to google for:

Insulin
Low fat myth
Primal diet
Mark’s Daily Apple
Low GI diet

Hey molgrips,

You seem to be a bit of an authority on this. I eat a lot of foods in keeping with low GI but on days that I exercise I find myself binging on chocolate and sweets in the evening. It’s like I’m possessed? Do you know how I could stop this?

Thanks,

M

You seem to be a bit of an authority on this

Lol no 🙂 I just google a lot! (and talk to coaches)

When you exercise hard you burn some carbs of course, so your carb stores and perhaps blood sugar become low, which stimulate your appetite for sweet things. This (in my experience) can last a while. However if you take fast carbs during and immediately after exercise, it stops your energy stores getting really low, and helps to prevent the urge to binge.

However, if you want to burn fat, don’t have fast carbs before* or during the first 45 mins of exercise as it’ll switch off the fat burning metabolism, and your body will burn more carbs. This may allow you to ride quite fast, but it’ll not be good for fat burning.

*before means 2-3 hours before, I reckon. I try not to eat fast carbs at all during the day and then ride/train after work before dinner. It’s hard at first but you get used to it quite quickly. And you really start looking forward to the 45 minute mark 🙂

Incidentally many people advocate exercising before breakfast – it’s the same idea, except I’m not a morning person so riding before breakfast is not an option 🙂

Also meant to say that I was tested for thyroid levels, diabetes, cholesterol and a few others I cant remember.

The first thing the doctor said was that if he didn’t already know my weight he would have said I was extremely healthy and fit according to my test results.

I’m 6’2″ and have been told that I don’t look like I’m 20 stone, everybody who’s met me and I’ve told them what I weigh are generally pretty shocked to find out.

This is a recent (last 2 months) photo of me;

IMG_3262 by kieranpbennett, on Flickr

Not great, but not huge, most of my weight seems to be around my chest and legs but I don’t lift weights. I don’t have a huge gut which is a minor relief.

Incidentally many people advocate exercising before breakfast

Sort of works for me. I just have an espresso and a banana before the morning commute (11 miles) then I have a sausage and egg roll when I get to work 😀

Seriously. And I am losing weight.

Thanks Molgrips.
I guess that could be the problem as I often don’t eat for an hour or so after exercising. What constitutes ‘fast carbs’ then?
A jam sarnie? Or would I be better with a recovery shake?

Thanks,

M

On the days I commute to work I will have a banana before setting off at about 6.30. The ride takes me about 55 mins and then I’ll have breakfast at work (couple of shredded wheat) at around 9.30

Fast carbs.. well coke works quite nicely I find, but it could be a sugary drink, jelly babies, tea and biscuits maybe. A jam sandwich could also be ok since white bread has a pretty high GI.

Although sugar itself could be a problem, so you might want to avoid it. Recovery shakes work (the Torq stuff is fantastic) but are expensive, plain maltodextrin powder is also not sugar and is cheap.

Thanks molgrips.

I think I’d rather avoid sugary drinks, unless it’s fruit juice or a smoothy.

Slightly concerned that adding all this sugar will be counterproductive to acheiving a low-weight though? Shouldn’t I just try and exercise more discipline and not binge?

Thanks,

M

There are studies to suggest that fructose promotes the creation of fat storage. This is why fruit is off the iDiet.

I have also read that when you juice fruit the fructose breaks down into sugar, so fruit juice IS in fact a sugary drink.

Slightly concerned that adding all this sugar will be counterproductive to acheiving a low-weight though?

It’s not a lot of sugar, it’s only a little bit 20g or so, depending on how hard or long you’ve been going for, which isn’t even a whole can of coke. Sugar is bad because it makes your body produce insulin, but during and after exercise insulin is good because it gets glucose into your muscles.

When your muscles are full (ie when you are not or have not been exercising) then insulin results in fat storage.

It might not be important for many people but if you are suffering binges after workouts this might help. Just try it. This stuff is all so complicated and personal that you have to just try it out.

I was commuting a fair old way to work at one job, and iDieting, and I plateaued at 84kg, and I was struggling to ride fast on training rides. I started eating Twixes, two or three a day, and I lost another 2kg and got a lot faster on my fast sessions.

Of course there’s nothing special about twixes, but I suspect the extra sugar/carbs allowed me to ride harder which in turn resulted in more weight loss.

It’s a funny old game, and even the pros don’t know exactly how it all works. There are dozens of hormones and factors in your own body that affect how much weight you carry, and hundreds more lifestyle factors that affect what you like to eat, how you fit your training in and what you do when you’re not training. The only way is to read, learn and experiment. And be aware!

Cool, thanks Molgrips.

Have you found a solution that works for you then?
I’m still on target with what I want to loose, but would like to avoid the binges I’ve experienced.

Thanks

M

In the past I would shed weight easily with a much worse diet and much less exercise

As people age, they become more insulin resistant, so imo, comparing how easy it was for someone, while in their youth, to loose weight, isn’t a fair comparison. I wouldn’t suggest that you should expect to be able to loose body fat as easily now as you might have done in the past. But it should still be possible.

Hi Matthew Matilda.
🙂

Have you found a solution that works for you then?

Not sure really, I struggle with consistency so I am always losing 2kg then putting it back on again. It might just be me, or it might be that 86kg is some sort of stasis weight. I hope not.

The binges btw might not be hampering your weight loss, especially if you are doing lots of exercise. I’d say don’t worry about it until you stop losing weight and are not at your target.

I struggle with consistency so I am always losing 2kg then putting it back on again. It might just be me, or it might be that 86kg is some sort of stasis weight. I hope not.

I have read that when weight plateaus, people employ ” Carb refeeds ” to break through the weight plateau. Further reading seems to indicate that this acts as some sort of Leptin reset.

Carb refeeds?

Does that involve bingeing? Cos I’m already on top of that 🙂

I was ill a few weeks ago. Sunday am to Saturday I ate nothing but still went to work every day etc etc. I went from 101kg’s to 96kgs. Well thats what I am now- so even though I started re-eating I kept it off.

I just can’t face the bag of crisps every day or the two chocolate bars. I also can’t face the two Yoghurts.

In essence I’ve stopped snacking when I felt nibblish all the time.

all I eat is Dorset cereals Mueseli- normally at 11 so I’ve had enough time to starve myself/get it flowing alittle. A good lunch then a modest tea.

TBH I don’t miss it – all the time I guzzled.

I will give my usual advice, add some resistance training to build some muscle and speed up your metabolism. Cut out any fast carbs, eat lots of vegetables and include plenty of good fats.

Primal and idiet are the way forward for me, I wont be going back to a conventional western diet, turn yourself into a fat burning beast!

Carb refeeds?

Does that involve bingeing? Cos I’m already on top of that

Leptin is a hormone which I was surprized to learn is produced mostly by adipose tissue. So this acts within a BF control system, preset and unique to everyone.

Too much BF, more leptin, surpressed hunger.
Too little BF, less leptin, increased hunger.

As people lean out, and BF drops, so too will their leptin levels and hunger will increase.
So people who carb refeed may do this for one day a week ( sound familiar ) or just one meal every 3 to 4 days, soon after exercise. This hi carb, low fat meal seems to result in more leptin production and so the subject can then continue to lose BF.

I’m still not entirely convinced, but early results from experiments I’m doing, seem to indicate that carb refeeds do have some effect.

Kieran- just seen the photo. Lift up a set of weights, say 10kg’s and pop it into a backpack and walk around. Even just 10kgs will make you feel knackered/hardwork- just that much will help you visualise how much more work your body is having to do, your heart.

The insanity workout has helped me hugely.

I also think you need to change your exercise regime, cycling 30 miles to work 3 times a week will be “normal” for your body and you wont’ be in effect getting a “work out”. I would cut down a few bits of the cardio and so some weight specific sessions, upper body weights, although remember your weight may not change but your body shape certainly will, which is why it’s important to take measurements rather than just go on weight alone. Ie inches of bicep, chest, thigh etc it’s a better reflector.

Looking at that pic I’d tend to agree with your doc’s comments about you looking reasonably OK for your build! Especially if, as you say, you don’t have a lot of gut, as abdominal fat (or lack of it) is a better health marker than you’d think.

I’d go with my earlier suggestion – you’ve gone from inactivity to quite intense (for you) activity, and your body shape (at least front on) suggests you may be putting on muscle and shedding fat.

Although I weigh myself, and it’s nice to see losses there, I put more store in waist measurements, overall fitness performance and general wellbeing (as measured by energy levels and occasional blood tests/pressure taken for other issues).

You’re doing OK on a couple of those measures, and perhaps you need to be realistic about rest and nutrition (ie not too severe a diet – make sure you’ve got the fuel for what you’re doing). Are you sleeping enough? Set yourself a non-weight related goal or too – a longer, harder ride perhaps or a pair of ‘target trousers’ with a smaller waist.

In the majority of cases, if you control calorific intake sensibly and exercise sensibly, things will improve, but not necessarily at lightning speed.

In the majority of cases, if you control calorific intake sensibly and exercise sensibly, things will improve, but not necessarily at lightning speed.

For biffers, possibly. But many reasonably active and not terribly overweight people I’ve known start to exercise hard, and their appetite goes up to an extend it’s imposisble not to eat more carbs. Possibly because they’re not so good at burning fat.

In the majority of cases, if you control calorific intake sensibly and exercise sensibly, things will improve, but not necessarily at lightning speed.

I would add that choosing where you source your calories from is also a good idea.

For biffers, possibly. But many reasonably active and not terribly overweight people I’ve known start to exercise hard, and their appetite goes up to an extend it’s imposisble not to eat more carbs. Possibly because they’re not so good at burning fat.

I accept that people who exercise will have a tendancy to consume more calories. Thats the body’s normal reaction to elevated levels of physical activity. This is why, while on paper, eating less and moving more should produce weight loss. But is often proved not to work as the body of those who start to move more, demand more cals.

Also consider that the brain monitors leptin levels and on that basis decides whether to stimulate hunger or suppress it, which again results in either increased or dimished caloric intake.

This is why people on high carb diets may see a drop in their leptin sensitivity, which can result in them eating more and increasing their BF, while the leptin receptors in the brain are not as responsive to those elevated leptin levels.

I think that the more insulin and leptin responsive a person is, the better it is for BF control.

For fat burning, your rides don’t look nearly long enough. 3 hours in zone 2 will start dropping the weight very quickly, an hours heavy interval work not so much. Assuming your commute takes you around 45-50 mins each way, its just not enough really and if you’re doing it at a fast pace, even less so. Personally I’d reduce intensity and maybe extend the length of your commute if you can. Or ride longer at the weekend

You’ll get to the point where you can eat pretty much what you want. At the moment your diet looks miserable. not enough cake!

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – google “BURN THE FAT FEED THE MUSCLE” by Tom Venuto. Sounds cheesy, but it’s all you’ll ever need. If you search for the PDF you might be able to find the ebook for free

I stumbled on weight loss by cycling steady for long periods and cut out alcohol, cakes and bread etc. I used to go gym 4-5 times a week and thought I was working hard, but never shifted a pound, but took up cycling and increased to 3-5 hour rides and lost 2 stone in 6 months….no science, but was knackered a lot of the time and ate reasonably…lost a lot of upper body muscle but feel better.
Apparently, your Glyogen stores are enough for approx. 1 hours excercise, so if you don’t go for longer, you never start eating fat reserves…go for 2 hours and more steady, with no fuel intake and your body will have no option but to start targeting fat reserves( and possibly muscle)keep it steady and long..good luck

I stripped a stone of fat away recently and the key was eating bulgar wheat instead of rice or potatos and adding Tabasco to neary everything! Lots of gym sessions helped but you need to keep your metabolism firing

You are eating hardly any protein and a lot of processed carbohydrate. Both those things are bad for energy levels and recovery in my experience. Since you’re already doing steady state cardio and getting nowhere try throwing in some weights. Take a look at leangains.com, very interesting site.

Eat lots of meat, fish and veg.

Ride your bike hard for about an hour most days of the week.

http://www.eatingdisordersonline.com/nutritional/fats.php

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/Fats101/Fats-101_UCM_304494_Article.jsp

Watch BBC Two’s Eat, Fast and Live Longer http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lxyzc

I’ve progressively lost weight by doing the following.

1. Keep a food diary – learn how many calories are in the foods you eat.
2. Don’t use energy sports drinks while exercising.
3. See food as fuel – fill up 3 hrs before you train. Eat protein to recover.
4. Don’t fill the fridge and cupboards with food. It removes the temptation to continuously graze.
5. Smaller portions – on smaller plates.
6. Get a cheap body fat calliper http://www.amazon.co.uk/Accu-Measure-Fitness-Personal-Tester/dp/B000G7YW74/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345789103&sr=8-1
7. Weigh yourself often and keep track of your performance.

It’s hard, but very worthwhile.

I reckon there’s something to doing your exercise before some carbs for breakfast. Over the past 3-4 years I have lost weight (just over 11 stone) and I do most of my exercise before breakfast then come back and have a bowl of cereal or something. I don’t even go on long rides, anywhere from 5-10 miles on a normal day then longer rides on my days off.

Erm.. you mean a bucketload…

Edit: thanks 😀